Date   

moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

Thanks, Mark. That's a big start.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 01:14 PM, Ken Schweizer wrote:

I would like to suggest that a message to the owners stating the change and date to be implemented before a major change is rolled out to all groups so that we can warn our members.

 

Thanks,

Ken

Ken,

I would have thought so as well. In fact, when I knew it was coming out, I did let my group members know about it in advance. Turns out that was a bad idea. When it did show up along with the Group page redirected, they came after the messenger (me) with their arrows.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

Hi All,

I've made the following change: we now remember which 'home page' you were last on, whether that's the Feed page, the Groups page, or the Topics page, and we return to that page the next time you go to https://groups.io (or click on the logo). Also, I've fixed the column sorting issue with the Groups page.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Bounced emails

 

Starting yesterday, periodically, I've started having trouble with SOME of my emails getting bounced back. I'm not sure if it's an issue with Groups.io, my domain host's server, or somewhere else along the line. I have only rudimentary skills at breaking apart email headers and figuring out WHICH system caused the bounce. Here is one bounced message (with the actual message text deleted for brevity). "InMotionHosting" is the host for my kaser.com domain. "se3-lax1.servconfig.com" appears to be owned by InMotionHosting also. What's not clear to me is whether the error is 'happening' on the InMotionHosting system, or when trying to contact lb02.groups.io. I'm not having ANY trouble with bouncing with any of my other emails, just the ones sent to kasergames@groups.io, which is what makes me suspect something involving that link. Ideas?

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moderated Re: Maintain Defaults Whenever Practical #suggestion

Maria
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 06:10 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
Perhaps it did look a bit "functional", but that's what I want it to look like; devoid of distractions and frills.

Function over Form, not the other way round.
And you still have that page - intact. Exactly as it was. Just one click away.

The function of the feed is to provide a feed of recent activity, the form it's presented in does that. I don't see distractions or frills in the feed.
It's quite minimalist actually. Shows us: active topics/new - upcoming events/ new files/ new photos/new subgroups/new chats/ and only shows them if they actually have new content.

The function of the YOUR GROUPS page is predominantly administrative, and the form it's in feels that way.  Which is great for the purpose of that page.

Both pages are necessary. Both pages are provided.

Maybe we simply need the Your Groups button no matter where we are on the site - we used to use the LOGO.

Like many architects, designers, artists, dancers, I don't share the idea of function over form. The two should align. It's not one or the other.

Beauty is the harmony of function and form -  Alvar Aalto
Function influence but does not dictate form - Eero Saarinen
Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union.- Frank Lloyd Wright
Form and function are a unity, two sides of one coin. In order to enhance function, appropriate form must exist or be created - Ida Rolf
Form Ever Follows Function - Louis Henry Sullivan

Maria


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Ken Schweizer
 

Hi Mark,

 

After looking at this for a bit I see the change as an moderate issue for our members, although maybe not for owners and moderators who are reading this feed.

 

I would like to suggest that a message to the owners stating the change and date to be implemented before a major change is rolled out to all groups so that we can warn our members.

 

Thanks,

Ken

 

“You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can’t, you do the next best thing. You back up but you don’t give up.” ―Chuck Yeager

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 3:48 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Feed view now the default

 

Hi All,

 

After a bunch of tweaking of the feed view, I've now made it the view you get when you go to https://groups.io and are logged in. The previous view of your subscribed groups, is now at /groups.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thanks,

Mark


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

 "the counter for mod action items" - meaning, for each group (not the grand total at the top)


On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 8:45 AM J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Another crucial addition: unless I'm missing something, the counter for mod action items is nowhere to be seen on the feed page. Why is this minimal info not there? I'm now seeing a whole bunch of detritus that I have zero interest in ("new chats") etc. but not the counter. This needs to be added in my strong opinion.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

Another crucial addition: unless I'm missing something, the counter for mod action items is nowhere to be seen on the feed page. Why is this minimal info not there? I'm now seeing a whole bunch of detritus that I have zero interest in ("new chats") etc. but not the counter. This needs to be added in my strong opinion.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: search suggestion - first posts of all new topics

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:29 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Shal, I'd say you're talking about the UI here
Shal, upon reflection I see that your idea is really suggesting additional functionality and a bit deeper than just the UI. But yeah, sure, it would work for me.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: search suggestion - first posts of all new topics

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:23 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
Would a reasonable implementation be to have the Date column head drop down to let you choose first post or most recent post in each Topic, ascending or descending?
Shal, I'd say you're talking about the UI here (how it would look to the user), not the implementation. Sure, it could look like that. The actual implementation could possibly be done as I suggested before, by (internally) somehow(?) filtering out the messages starting with "Re:." Or some other method. I really don't care about implementation and was just making one suggestion.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: search suggestion - first posts of all new topics

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:37 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
It remembers, but then deliberately throws that memory out the window if you click to the group through the (was home, now /groups) page instead of the Your Groups drop-list.
Shal, thanks. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:04 AM, Jeremy H wrote:
I would also want to be able to have a 'combined' view of Active topics, etc, for my favourite groups. And the ability to set the limit of what is shown - by number or time range (or both).
All of those suggestions are great, but I'm requesting just the bare minimum (for now) to make this functional from my point of view: ability to specify which groups are in or out, ability to specify which content is in or out, and ability to specify which (canonical, not even custom) display order. And ideally, ability to specify which view I want for my home page (/groups or feed). I think these would all be simple and quick to implement. You could add all the desirable stuff later. I just want to be able to even use the page. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Drew
 

FWIW, maybe of use to admins...

I prefer using keyboard navigation over mouse whenever possible. I access Groups.io (and the groups list) by entering a "G" into the address bar of my browser. Autofill expands that to https://groups.io.

Now, after the change, in order to get to my groups list I have to hit the Down arrow after G to selecct groups.io/groups, a small additional effort.

At some point I think the browser will learn that "G" indicates the /groups URL so I won't have to hit the Down arrow and it will once again be the same as previously. Either way, it requires little effort.

Drew

On 03/26/19 08:40, Duane wrote:
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:26 AM, HR Tech wrote:


Duane, a question: If there were a "your groups" tab on the nav bar to the
left would that feel more friendly and similar to the habit of clicking
the logo?
Possibly, but I don't think it would "fit in" on a particular group menu.  It's already there on the feed/landing page.  I actually put my bookmark on the browser (Firefox) bookmark toolbar, on the extreme left, so it's close to the original location.
Duane


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:02 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Moderator preferences should matter, too.
p.s. We may not be enterprise customers. But it's the groups we create and work hard to run that drive groups.io membership. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Jeremy H
 

I see three issues out of this change:

Firstly, that Feed View has (suddenly - was it there before, but something that we all seem to have ignored?) become the default view - and that it is the default view. My thought is that the default view should be something that each user should be able to select - be it Feed, Groups, Topics, Calendar, .... 

Second that there is a bug in its implementation - apart from Mark Irving's problem:
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:51 AM, Mark Irving wrote:

Making the feed view the default has broken the sort-column links in the (old default, now moved) Your Groups page. For example, if I click on the Latest Message column heading, to re-sort the list, instead I am jumped to the new default Feed page..

there is a problem in that the 'Your Groups' link on the Topics View (and others) goes to My Feed, not My Groups.

And thirdly, that 'My Feed' should be tailorable, as to what is included, and how - the current arrangement by group, ordered by last group activity is not I think how I want it.
J_Catlay's summary provides a good starting point for options
So the summary of my suggestions (and I'll stop here) are:

2. Importantly: Provide an account option to order the groups on the page either alphabetically or by recent activity. In looking back on Mark's original thread about the feed, I see the issue of the group order coming up there as well as now. I consider the current "bouncing around" (as Jim put it) of groups in the display unacceptable.
Also - ideally - a manual sort option, to keep my favourite groups at the top

3. Provide checkboxes for which activities users want to see in their feed (chats, files, messages, etc.)
4. Provide checkboxes for which groups users want to see in their feed.
but I would also want to be able to have a 'combined' view of Active topics, etc, for my favourite groups. And the ability to set the limit of what is shown - by number or time range (or both).

Jeremy


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 05:57 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
low number of subscribers to beta points towards its being something of a minority interest.
I see a few non-mod members posting from time to time on beta. With the exception of Maria (who speaks on behalf of her non-mod group members), those are the people here who've tended to like or be ok with the feed page.

I think that people who use mostly email, non-mod members, and people who belong to no more than a couple of groups won't be bothered by the feed page. They won't be bothered by the bouncing display order or the amount of content for each group they have to scroll through or the inconvenience of going to their home page to do admin functions. This may indeed be the vast majority of account holders. But most (not all) of the mod members I see posting about the feed here have voiced dislike.

So although Maria may be right that we, the mod members, should "take off our moderator hats" to evaluate the feed page, I personally think our preferences should not be sacrificed for the sake of non-mod members' convenience. Most of us (possible exception of Maria?) are not running for-profit businesses, and we spend more time on the site "working" for our members than our (non-mod) members. Moderator preferences should matter, too.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Maintain Defaults Whenever Practical #suggestion

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 03:10 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
Function over Form, not the other way round.
Exactly. The whole thing is a bit Facebook-ish, with looks trumping utility.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 04:41 AM, Duane wrote:
As an owner/moderator I'll never use it
That seems to be the main problem voiced here. Allowing users to choose whether they land on the feed or groups page would allow mods to pick the one that works best for them.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 06:51 AM, Mark Irving wrote:

Making the feed view the default has broken the sort-column links in the (old default, now moved) Your Groups page. For example, if I click on the Latest Message column heading, to re-sort the list, instead I am jumped to the new default Feed page.

While I'm commenting, I also suggest the first click on Latest Message should sort newest-first, not oldest-first as it did until yesterday before inserting the Feed page affected it more drastically. It's almost always what I wanted, and there would then be no need for a second click to reverse the sort order.

 - Mark I.

Mark,

Good catch. And this is a real bug, not just a matter of going to a different place than one was used to. As far as I can tell, the Sort Column headers no longer function at all. If this isn't easy to repair, I'd rather have the links there removed altogether than left the way it is.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Maria
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 08:57 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
However, did you see a point I made in a post earlier today in this thread? I suspect that the great majority of Account holders / groups Subscribers carry out their day - to - day transactions with their groups by email, not using the web UI (if a poll on one group produced typical results) so they will be completely unaware of the change the change we are discussing.
Yes, saw that. We may have a different demographic in our groups. In our groups a majority are using mobile web and email combo.
The feed was implemented yesterday and we've yet to receive a single complaint. Only positive feedback actually.

I really think that this is an issue where we admins should approach this new feature from the perspective of what will make our work flow feel as good as it did before.
I'd like one more easy way to get back to the YOUR GROUPS page when i am done moderating in a given group. A simple YOUR GROUPS button in each group would resolve.  I don't think it's fair for admins to mix up their admin priorities when viewing the feed page, which is hopefully going to help web based members and members who simply haven't had time to read all the many summaries/digests/emails - or who simply want a quick glance, and to see what events are coming up, files uploaded, subgroups added etc.

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