Date   

moderated Re: What's up with my group list?

 

I'll just pick my head up out of the sand and figure out what's up when this is all over. :-)


On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 5:40 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 4:51 PM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
Any main group that has a subgroup is now showing up TWICE on my group list.

Not quite. If you were only subscribed to a main group and no subgroups, the behavior was changed, to be more consistent with how we display other subgroup subscriptions. I have rolled that change back.

Thanks,
Mark 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What's up with my group list?

 

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 4:51 PM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
Any main group that has a subgroup is now showing up TWICE on my group list.

Not quite. If you were only subscribed to a main group and no subgroups, the behavior was changed, to be more consistent with how we display other subgroup subscriptions. I have rolled that change back.

Thanks,
Mark 


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 04:39 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
now, suddenly, the home page of a group shows up instead of the messages page
Not only that, but the beta home page looks like a feed page, whereas my other groups' home pages don't. I have idea what's going on any more...
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What's up with my group list?

 

I'm lost. Can't we just go back to how it was before the change?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated What's up with my group list?

Bruce Bowman
 

Any main group that has a subgroup is now showing up TWICE on my group list.

I *really* don't like that.

Thanks,
Bruce


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

p.s. Oh, wait, I should have gone to the test page (which I didn't and probably won't, at least not yet). I'm talking about the (new) current situation.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

I haven't been following this closely, but now, suddenly, the home page of a group shows up instead of the messages page, but only for groups with subgroups. That is very dizzying, disconcerting, confusing, etc. It causes the user (in this case, me;) to wonder why on earth they are showing up completely differently, why am I not going directly to the messages ("like I do in all my other groups"), etc. Besides that, I have no opinion because I basically have no idea what's going on.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Michael Pavan
 

I've set up a test so that you can see how this looks. Go to https://groups.io/groups?test=1 (substitute in your enterprise domain instead and it'll also work), to see how it looks with name / title.
OK, "Group Email Address" ('local-part' only) / "Group Title" is an improvement over "Group Title" only.

I would prefer the order to match that of my "Your Groups" webpage ( https://groups.io/groups/ ) with the groups I own (and perhaps Moderate) first, then the other groups I belong to (each in alphabetical order). I go to the websites of the groups I manage more than other group websites, except to 'Like' beta and GMF emails for which I use the direct link in the email.

Being able to control what and in what order would be ideal - I find the wordy "Group Title"s to just be clutter.


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Duane
 

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 05:29 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I've set up a test so that you can see how this looks. Go to https://groups.io/groups?test=1
If anyone else is as confused as I was, it's the Your Groups drop down that is being tested. ;>)  After a quick look, I think this solves the situation, but I'll look at it again later.

Duane


moderated Re: Feature Request : Statistic + reSend to Segment - #suggestion

 

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:15 PM Ezzaky <support@...> wrote:

Statistic : show how much one open and read your topics via email or link

Send to Segment :  like resend who didnt open a topic or who didnt click a link in a topic ,....

This would require us to insert a tracking pixel into every email, and I have no plans on doing that. If you need those features, it sounds like you should be using something like Mailchimp.

Mark 


moderated Re: Feature Request : Statistic + reSend to Segment - #suggestion

Ezzaky <support@...>
 

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 08:41 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Send to Segment :  like resend who didnt open a topic
ah good point am with you
so let's keep it with Send to Segment : who didnt open a topic


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

When Geoff asked that I switch from displaying group names to group titles, I didn't think too much about it; it just made sense. But I have to admit I'm not terribly fond of how it's currently working.

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 9:29 AM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

So I think I would propose:

name / title  (for groups without subgroups), and

domain
   name / title (for the primary group)
   name / title (for each subgroup)

I've set up a test so that you can see how this looks. Go to https://groups.io/groups?test=1 (substitute in your enterprise domain instead and it'll also work), to see how it looks with name / title. I think for some things it's better, but I know of at least one enterprise group that would need to change some of their group titles, as they are basically duplicates of the group name. 

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Feature Request : Statistic + reSend to Segment - #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/15/2019 11:22, Ezzaky wrote:
Send to Segment :  like resend who didnt open a topic or who didnt click a link in a topic ,....

How would this work for people who read their groups via email? Would the link need to go somewhere that reported back to groups.io? Even if the remote site was willing to report back to groups.io, there are trust and security implications here.

Best,

Glenn

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moderated Feature Request : Statistic + reSend to Segment - #suggestion

Ezzaky <support@...>
 

Hey Team.

I would love to get that tow Features add to groups.io


Statistic : show how much one open and read your topics via email or link

Send to Segment :  like resend who didnt open a topic or who didnt click a link in a topic ,....

keep it going
thanks


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

Mark,

I wrote:

Maybe the better suggestion is that the Your Groups drop-list adopt a
combined "name | sub / title" ...
Oops.

I forgot to take into account that the Your Groups drop-list shows the primary and subgroups indented under the domain (common to the primary and subgroups). In the examples in my list the primary is always first in the indented list, hopefully that can be relied upon.

So I think I would propose:

name / title (for groups without subgroups), and

domain
name / title (for the primary group)
name / title (for each subgroup)

I considered whether the "domain" above should show only the subdomain (omit ".groups.io") for the normal case of groups without a custom domain, but consistently showing the entire thing is probably better, and I think will be much more understandable from the point of view of any user who is a member of both types of groups (custom domain and not).

I see that in the prior message I have been somewhat inconsistent in the nomenclature for groups with subgroups. In some places I've treated the subdomain (original name of the primary) as part of "name" or the entirety of it, and in others as part of "domain". In this message "name" includes only the part to the left of the @ in the Group Email Address of groups with subgroups, the "subdomain" is the first part in the field to the right of the @.

Shal


moderated Re: what is a "title" ?

Michael Pavan
 

I try to read all messages of this group, but I'm not sure what a "title" even is.
For this group:

"Group Title" = The Groups.io Beta Group

"Group Email Address" = main@beta.groups.io

"Subject Tag" = [beta]

"Your Groups" dropdown menu = The Groups.io Beta Group

"Your Groups" webpage (https://groups.io/groups/) = beta | main

URL = https://beta.groups.io/g/main



-- .--- .--.


moderated what is a "title" ?

ro-esp
 

From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 02:48:10 CEST
Mark,

- If a group has a title set, that's used now.
I'm not enthusiastic about this change.
1) The group's Title is not its name. Its name (the group-specific
part of its email and web addresses) is its name.

I try to read all messages of this group, but I'm not sure what a "title" even is. Can someone explain?

groetjes, Ronaldo


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Michael Pavan
 

Some may prefer the new "Your Groups" dropdown menu showing "Group Title" vs "Group Email Address", but let us choose.
Put in a toggle to control whether "Group Email Address" is shown (as it used to be) or "Group Title".

Alternatively, I guess the work around could be to change each group's "Group Title" to match its "Group Email Address", but that would cause those groups to no longer be searchable by its 'real world' name in the Groups.io Directory, plus I don't know if it would correct the current "Your Groups" dropdown menu's not truly alphabetical order or reinstitute the "Your Groups" webpage sort of 'my owned groups first, follow by other groups' (both in alphabetical order)...

A "Group Title" is typically a phrase like: 'Information Technology' and 'what you see is what you get' which online are usually expressed as: IT and WYSIWYG - they make sense. Allow us to continue that practice with the "Your Groups" dropdown menu.


The "Your Groups" dropdown menu used to be good and matched my "Your Groups" webpage
https://groups.io/groupsG
It showed the 11 groups I own, then the 4 other groups I belong to (both in alphabetical order) as:
ATJ
BotHSS
CCCS
CCCSO
CCOTJ
CCSS
CCWJ
FF
FSS
RJ
RJDF
beta | main
Group_Help
GroupManagersForum
updates

Now what I see is a plethora of unnecessary words,
that are neither truly alphabetical, nor can I select its order:
All Time Jelly - former members of Roaring Jelly
The Groups.io Beta Group
Back of the House Slow Session
Cape Cod Celtic Society spirit
Cape Cod Celtic Society Organizers
Cape Cod Old Time Jam
Cape Cod Scottish Session
Cape Cod Waltz Jam
Falmouth Fiddlers
Falmouth Slow Session
Group_Help
Help Improve the Management of Groups
Roaring Jelly Contra Dance Band current members
Roaring Jelly Dance Friends
Groups.io Updates

My 11 groups all have a chosen Group Title that is 2 to 7 words long,
but use its easy to remember acronym (only 2 to 6 letters long)
for "Group Email Address", "Subject Tag", and group URL
e.g. All Time Jelly - former members of Roaring Jelly, ATJ@groups.io, [ATJ], and https://groups.io/g/ATJ
(or the simpler alias: https://ATJ.groups.io/)



-- .--- .--.


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Geoff Arnold <geoff@...>
 

I definitely appreciate these issues. I didn't want to impose my view on everyone else; I'd be happy if we made it a group option to use Titles or Names. (And I'm already getting worried about international localization: Ideally I'd like a dict of {locale, title} for each [sub]group.)


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

Mark,

- If a group has a title set, that's used now.
I'm not enthusiastic about this change.

1) The group's Title is not its name. Its name (the group-specific part of its email and web addresses) is its name. This isn't just pedantry, group names are per-force unique system-wide, group Titles are not.

I think Geoff's concern seems rather peculiar - perhaps limited to Enterprise groups with a custom domain. Most other groups here don't seem to have a problem with picking names that are long enough to be easily recognized. Breaking everyone else's Your Groups drop list to accommodate those particular concerns doesn't seem well thought out.

2) It is now inconsistent with the /groups page. So now one has two lists of your groups, with at best loosely related entries. This is NOT a recommendation that the /groups page also be changed to display the Title.

NOTE: Sorting is still done by group name. This will be addressed with
a future update.
3) Hopefully that would at least be the kind title sort a librarian would use -- excluding leading articles (such as "A", "An", and "The").

To catch all cases, including non-English language, you might need to add a "sort-by Title" control to the group settings so that the group owner can trim the Title appropriately for their language.

The good news: sorting by Title will bring to light cases where you are a member of two or more groups with the same name -- see objection (1). The bad news: it will make it harder to remember which is which.

4) This change will put pressure on some groups to change their Title to accommodate this presentation. I've already had calls to change GMF's Title to make it more recognizable in this new presentation.

But what is one to do? Make the title a duplicate of the name, with better punctuation? That would best serve the "recognizable" goal, but seems a wasted resource (the Title). Better, perhaps, would be add the group name to (the beginning of) the Title text.

5) Either way, this makes for an ugly entry in the Publicly Listed Groups list, which is shown in the format: name / title.
So now I'd have name / name, or name / name title.

That is, either:
GroupManagersForum / Group Managers Forum
or
GroupManagersForum / Group Managers Forum -- Help Improve the Management of Groups

***

Maybe the better suggestion is that the Your Groups drop-list adopt a combined "name | sub / title" inspired by the Publicly Listed Groups list. Perhaps with truncation at a reasonable width.

Shal

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