Date   

locked Re: suggestion - Consistency (ies)

 

Ken,

Ok, I could accept that - except that gio uses *message* and *post*
interchangeably,
Looking at the Settings page with fresh eyes I see what you mean. (And I would prefer to settle on /message/, see below).

E.g. the Message Policies section:

|_| Allow Non Subscribers to Post
Posts by non-subscribers will be moderated, instead of rejected.

The first usage is simply an implied object ("... to Post Messages"), but the second is a nominalization. It could be corrected as "Messages from non-subscribers..." (or "Posting by non-subscribers...").

Arguably the correction to "Messages from" would be an improvement.

I note that sometimes GMF gets questions that imply a belief that the Moderated setting also causes other content (Files, Photos) from members to also be held pending. Specifically:

|_| Moderated
All posts require approval before being sent to the group.

and also (in a member's membership page):

Posting Privileges
o Use Group Moderation Setting
...

In both those contexts "post" may be interpreted more broadly than just messages, and absent any moderation controls specific to Files or Photos some people use (or hope for or wish for) the broader interpretation.

Shal


locked Re: suggestion - Consistency (ies)

KWKloeber
 

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 02:36 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
please don't take my disagreement
with any of the specific examples as a dismissal of your overall goal.
I'm ot suggesting that at all, just that -- sometimes a person's bias (preference?) might tend to keep one's shoes tied tightly, making it more difficult to try on and walk in another's shoes.  At least I know I'm sometimes guilty of that until I remove the bias (preference?) shades.

<<<<perhaps "blowing up" the group.

My thought was that /Subscription/ better implies a personal connection
to the user - in the context of a group it could only refer to one's
personal subscription to that group.>>>>
My thought is that "subscription" is something members (of my age) used to order when we put a check in the mail to "newsweek." and it arrived by good old Post Office.   I had no say in any preferences such as delivery when or how, or when they published, or any "setting" of the sort.
> At least "Preferences" (display, communication, etc) would be
> recognizable.

That's not bad. It may be better.

I think it has a much more personal connotation than /Settings/, and a
more "friendly" one. Something offered as your preference doesn't seem
as risky as (read with a booming ominous voice in your head) A SETTING.
I see your point, I doubt the fear of blowing up the group settings, but do agree the connotation of "Preference" more personable and more personal.
It would also be consistent usage with the Preferences page in your Account.
It is consistent with the (uugh) Subscription page.   which reads... "Advanced Preferences.
I think it would be well understood that the Preferences would pertain to the group (uggh subscription) to which you are currently signed on.

I see where the disconnect is...
Rightfully, (given no shortage of screen space) the sidebar might read "Your Subscription Settings" (aka preferences) or "Settings for this subscription"  - some permutation of those. 
Your TV remote (or for most any device) doesn't have a button "Your TV Settings" or "Settings for your TV"-- It's shortened to "Settings", "TV" is understood.
So shortening "Your Subscription Settings"  to "Subscription" loses all the context.

-K


moderated Re: maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

 

And also, there’s something inconsistent about this. In my limerick, I clearly used “return” to create new lines. They came out fine in my Word doc. But in some seemingly random subset, extra paragraph breaks appeared in the gio version.


On Sep 1, 2019, at 7:48 PM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Maybe. But this doesn’t help my group members and doesn’t explain why it comes out fine in gmail. It’s invisible after the Word doc is created, edited, and otherwise futzed with until the member seems it acceptable for posting. Then, voila, all their hard work down the drain when they see how the post appears.


On Sep 1, 2019, at 7:43 PM, Ken Schweizer <kensch888@...> wrote:

Hi J,

 

It is a Microsoft Word idiosyncrasy. When you press Enter Microsoft Word thinks you want to create a new paragraph. It's the (IMO) stupid default behavior to then put a gap between the two lines and I haven't been able to find a way to go back to the old, normal, word.

If you want to simply put a single line between the two press SHIFT + ENTER rather than just Enter. There are several Macros that will do it automatically for you, but you should be proficient in VB to implement them.

 

As to the other formatting issues I "believe" it is an Internet thing. We had the same issues when trying to copy a Word outline to Yahoo groups. In order to get a pseudo indent, I had to replace the spaces with a "." (dot or period).  Maybe someone who is familiar with the way the Internet handles multiple spaces can answer your question better than I.

 

Ken

 

“You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can’t, you do the next best thing. You back up but you don’t give up.” ―Chuck Yeager

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2019 3:07 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages #request

 

i make this request not only because of my ill-fated limerick this morning, which I copy/pasted from a Word doc, and which appeared here with extra line spaces, but because the problem occurs frequently in my group as well: when someone copy/pastes a Word doc into a message, the formatting is often all screwed up, including, but not necessarily limited to, the addition of extra line (or paragraph) breaks. I don't know if anything can be done about this, but will remain hopeful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

 

Maybe. But this doesn’t help my group members and doesn’t explain why it comes out fine in gmail. It’s invisible after the Word doc is created, edited, and otherwise futzed with until the member seems it acceptable for posting. Then, voila, all their hard work down the drain when they see how the post appears.


On Sep 1, 2019, at 7:43 PM, Ken Schweizer <kensch888@...> wrote:

Hi J,

 

It is a Microsoft Word idiosyncrasy. When you press Enter Microsoft Word thinks you want to create a new paragraph. It's the (IMO) stupid default behavior to then put a gap between the two lines and I haven't been able to find a way to go back to the old, normal, word.

If you want to simply put a single line between the two press SHIFT + ENTER rather than just Enter. There are several Macros that will do it automatically for you, but you should be proficient in VB to implement them.

 

As to the other formatting issues I "believe" it is an Internet thing. We had the same issues when trying to copy a Word outline to Yahoo groups. In order to get a pseudo indent, I had to replace the spaces with a "." (dot or period).  Maybe someone who is familiar with the way the Internet handles multiple spaces can answer your question better than I.

 

Ken

 

“You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can’t, you do the next best thing. You back up but you don’t give up.” ―Chuck Yeager

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2019 3:07 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages #request

 

i make this request not only because of my ill-fated limerick this morning, which I copy/pasted from a Word doc, and which appeared here with extra line spaces, but because the problem occurs frequently in my group as well: when someone copy/pastes a Word doc into a message, the formatting is often all screwed up, including, but not necessarily limited to, the addition of extra line (or paragraph) breaks. I don't know if anything can be done about this, but will remain hopeful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

Ken Schweizer
 

Hi J,

 

It is a Microsoft Word idiosyncrasy. When you press Enter Microsoft Word thinks you want to create a new paragraph. It's the (IMO) stupid default behavior to then put a gap between the two lines and I haven't been able to find a way to go back to the old, normal, word.

If you want to simply put a single line between the two press SHIFT + ENTER rather than just Enter. There are several Macros that will do it automatically for you, but you should be proficient in VB to implement them.

 

As to the other formatting issues I "believe" it is an Internet thing. We had the same issues when trying to copy a Word outline to Yahoo groups. In order to get a pseudo indent, I had to replace the spaces with a "." (dot or period).  Maybe someone who is familiar with the way the Internet handles multiple spaces can answer your question better than I.

 

Ken

 

“You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can’t, you do the next best thing. You back up but you don’t give up.” ―Chuck Yeager

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2019 3:07 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages #request

 

i make this request not only because of my ill-fated limerick this morning, which I copy/pasted from a Word doc, and which appeared here with extra line spaces, but because the problem occurs frequently in my group as well: when someone copy/pastes a Word doc into a message, the formatting is often all screwed up, including, but not necessarily limited to, the addition of extra line (or paragraph) breaks. I don't know if anything can be done about this, but will remain hopeful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: suggestion - Consistency (ies)

KWKloeber
 

shal

<<<< "Messages", but "Posts by members"
What I've seen in Groups.io (I mean the interface, not user content) is that /message/ is the noun, and /post/ is the action. >>>>>
Ok, I could accept that - except that gio uses message and post interchangeably,  

Posts by members
is a noun (not an action -  ie, verb) some number of (1 to ?) messages displayed.
Now, if the screen read "messages that members have posted" that would be a different story.

A message is a noun, ie., one.
Pick one, and stay with it!


moderated Re: "Emailed Files" folder

 

Bruce,

If we take away the "View Attachments" page (which includes photos),
replacing it with "Emailed Files" (which presumably would not), there
will be no way to do #1 above.
I see.

The simplest solution I can think of would be to continue including image files as files in that folder.

That would mean exempting them from control by the "Allow Photos In Files" checkbox (in the Files part of the Features section of the group's Settings page) - treating this folder as allowing photos regardless. At least until such time as a better solution for those images is implemented.

It would also mean that larger images would be listed in both places, but I don't really see that as a problem. Images files have a dual nature: they are files and they are photos (casually speaking, a photographer may object to calling an image a photo unless it traces back to a camera).

Shal


locked Re: suggestion - Consistency (ies)

KWKloeber
 

Post v message

Don't care -- Consistency is my point. - which keeps getting conflated with arguments over one personal preference versus another.
That said, I agree POST is more better.


moderated Re: "Emailed Files" folder

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 08:09 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that it would be any less capable than the existing page, when seen by moderators.
Shal -- I didn't take it that way. I guess to fully explain myself I should start at the beginning.

There have been many complaints over time about sig-line images and so on proliferating in the Emailed Photos folder. In an attempt to address this, on or around March 22 of this year Mark decided to no longer index and display images less than 100 pixels in either dimension in that folder. See the link to that thread in my previous message.

Those little images are still proliferating, and still counting against quota. So the change only addressed half the problem.

If your goal as a group Owner is to get rid of them rather than just hide them, there are two ways remaining to do that:

1) Look them up via the "View Attachments" page (which serves as an alternate index to the affected messages*), or
2) Painstakingly search through all the messages and edit them out, one by one.

If we take away the "View Attachments" page (which includes photos), replacing it with "Emailed Files" (which presumably would not), there will be no way to do #1 above. That's why I remain reluctant to see it go away.

As for how much of a problem this really is, I don't know. Depends on how many of those little images your group receives, I guess.

Regards,
Bruce

*Conveniently sorted by file size


moderated Re: maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

 

J,

Shal, thanks but I don't know what you're talking about. LOL.
Sorry about that. But what's important is that Mark will (hopefully).

Short version: Groups.io's web view seems to be ignoring some of the HTML parameters that tell it how much space to put between paragraphs (zero, in your limerick).

It is probably more of a limitation than a bug - I suspect it results from a deliberate "sanitizing" of the HTML. But perhaps it can be corrected for this problem.

Shal


moderated Re: "Emailed Files" folder

 

Bruce,

The main thing that's keeping me from going there is that the "View
attachments" page is currently the only means available to delete
little sig line images and so on that may be accumulating behind the
scenes
I didn't mean to imply that it would be any less capable than the existing page, when seen by moderators.

That would be one difference with an Emailed Files folder - it would be visible to members (if files are at all), but its edit controls should be governed by the same rules as messages regarding moderator versus member.

Shal


moderated Re: maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

 

Shal, thanks but I don't know what you're talking about. LOL.

Yeah, I saw that the emailed version of the message came out fine. The problem is that people often compose long, detailed messages in my group, and many of them do it in Word and then copy and paste. Any invisible formatting characters that work their way into their Word doc are just that: invisible. So I often find myself going in and removing extra line spacing and other things from their posts.

The same applies to their auto-sigs. If the person copies the text for their auto-sig from a document they've created (which is common in our group, because auto-sigs carry a lot of medical information about the cat and often people copy it from some other place), it's a mess. Sometimes I've gone in and used the "remove formatting" tool on the sig. Maybe that's possible with their messages ("posts") too, I'm now thinking. But it would be nice if this did not have to be done.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

 

J,

i make this request not only because of my ill-fated limerick this morning, which I copy/pasted from a Word doc, and which appeared here with extra line spaces,

Interesting. I see what you mean on the web interface, but in Thunderbird and in Gmail's web interface it came out as you probably expected:


So I think this has something to do with the paragraph style formatting. In particular, the second and third lines are represented in the HTML as one paragraph with a line break between them; whereas the first, fourth and fifth lines are separate paragraphs. Groups.io is displaying the four paragraphs of your limerick with some spacing between.

If the paragraph formatting in your word document has no spacing above or below you may have separate paragraphs that visually appear the same as line breaks.

Shal


moderated Re: "Emailed Files" folder

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 04:03 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
As for whether this should actually replace the functionality
currently found at https://groups.io/g/GROUPNAME/attachments, I
haven't decided on that yet.
I would say "yes", with the possibility of leaving the link behind on the Upgrade/Billing page, updated to point to this new folder.
The main thing that's keeping me from going there is that the "View attachments" page is currently the only means available to delete little sig line images and so on that may be accumulating behind the scenes (Ref: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/30721218#20482).

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 05:06 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
i make this request not only because of my ill-fated limerick this morning, which I copy/pasted from a Word doc, and which appeared here with extra line spaces, but because the problem occurs frequently in my group as well: when someone copy/pastes a Word doc into a message, the formatting is often all screwed up, including, but not necessarily limited to, the addition of extra line (or paragraph) breaks. I don't know if anything can be done about this, but will remain hopeful.
--
I would like to offer this as an add-on for pasting improvements needed. Please allow pasting an image into a "post" online.
 
--
Gerald


moderated maintain Word formatting when copy-pasting documents into messages

 

i make this request not only because of my ill-fated limerick this morning, which I copy/pasted from a Word doc, and which appeared here with extra line spaces, but because the problem occurs frequently in my group as well: when someone copy/pastes a Word doc into a message, the formatting is often all screwed up, including, but not necessarily limited to, the addition of extra line (or paragraph) breaks. I don't know if anything can be done about this, but will remain hopeful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "Emailed Files" folder

 

Bruce,

As for whether this should actually replace the functionality
currently found at https://groups.io/g/GROUPNAME/attachments, I
haven't decided on that yet.
I would say "yes", with the possibility of leaving the link behind on the Upgrade/Billing page, updated to point to this new folder.

Shal


locked Re: suggestion - Consistency (ies)

 

darn formatting came out all wrong! :-(

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: suggestion - Consistency (ies)

 

According to Marv, let’s use “post”

And make the word “message” a ghost.
When shooting the breeze,

Don’t “message me” please

Or screen real estate will be toast.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: suggestion - Consistency (ies)

Marv Waschke
 

Memory, storage, processor cycles, and bandwidth are all cheaper than dirt compared to the last century. But screen real estate in these days of pocket computers, is still precious. "Post" is shorter than "Message". Also "post" is conventionally acceptable as verb, but some fastidious people object to "message" as a verb. For these reasons, I would scrub "message" and consistently replace it with "post." On the other hand, if I were managing groups.io development, I probably tell the team to work on more important things, like the app, where screen real estate is critical.
Best, Marv

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