Date   

locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

Shal,
Thank you for your suggestions. I have had similar thoughts about this. 

Susan B


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

I don't understand something. Under the $110 fee we were going to be able to convert to free after one year. Is this still true? Because if it isn't, I don't think our group will be able to afford to stay here. That would be so sad after all the work we have done to get here.

Can someone please tell me?
Thank you

Susan B


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

GtownCycler
 

Is there any room for negotiation here at all? I created my group (a Freecycle group, so you can understand the mindset of the members) here on October 16, with the intent of migrating our existing group from yahoogroups (as many did, I am sure). I ran a "pledge drive" to raise the $110 Premium membership, finally getting the final donation this morning. Then I came here to upgrade my group, only to find that the cost had doubled with no warning whatsoever. I cannot go back the group now and say "whoops, sorry! Need another $110!".

If there's no way around this, I'll just have to refund the donations and go the free route. This was extremely disappointing after all the work I had put into raising the funds.


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

deborah
 

answer to @catlady

It is easy to be sarcastic when you are already on io groups and have transferred a long time ago.

please understand that I am talking on behalf of several groups who are in FRAnce, with members and moderators only understanding FRENCH, who have no idea, who do not know io groups, who have no money and need help with their handicaped adopted children !

Do you think it is easy for them to understand that keeping their group will cost 110 dollars, even more 220 dollars, and this overnight notice, and then change again?
They are pretty freaked out to say the least.

I have not been present here all the time, had no idea Yahoo would close since they seemed to be going on after all ...

Nobody is happy with yahoo policies, but then this week has been really crazy. We have been submitted to pressure and variable deadlines overnight (remember we live in a different time zone and it is now 2 am in my country where I do not sleep yet).

So can we have an additionnal deadline for price increase, as this is far too short notice for us and many grassroots groups, of which moderators do need first to get the information and process it with their members ?

Deborah


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

deborah
 

Mark, THanks for changing the conditions again! 

Let us summarize the last days.

After the yahoo announcement I was trying to get my members to accept the transfer and figuring out how to collect the 110 dollars, under the first conditions.

then on the night of october 21st, we were told that it was either 110 dollars OVERNIGHT or else 220 dollars for the transfer and first year and then 220 dollars every additionnal year. Under these circumstances, I knew my groups would never follow and even more: that meant transfering with the knowledge of that transfer would NOT be sustainable and be able to survive after one year. So I declined.

Then on october 22nd, in the late evening, I find again another change: now groups would continue to be for free even if more than 500 members. So we were reverted to the first terms and conditions. Which I would have accepted, given that we need a little time to organize ourselves and we cannot do this overnight.

Many people on the YG have not yet even understood that the groups would close, that some of us are trying to migrate, that it will have a cost.
I cannot put down my credit card for paying the transfer of 2 groups without knowing my groups will reimburse me in some way. That needs a number of exchanges on our yahoo groups to organize !

So again: I think I can do the move at the 110 dollars cost. Not at the 220 dollars cost. And I need about 2 weeks to organize it, I cannot do this overnight.

Is there still a possibility or is it now closed?

Deborah from Paris, France.
Groups created on io october 21st.


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

William Finn
 

May I suggest that anyone before the announced date is grandfathered in be they free or paid and anyone new as of the date gets the new pricing.

That way anyone who started the process before the new price announcement date did so based on the old pricing formats so they should be grandfathered into the old price list.



On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 7:15 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:12 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
consider just how many people delayed transferring their group
It's exactly that feature that's annoying when the panicked newcomers complain now. They were warned that yahoo was going down time and time again, but they poo-poo'd it. They had plenty of opportunities to move when the going was good. I'm not saying this is true of everyone who's jumping yahoo's finally sinking ship in desperation. But there are enough of them out there who were warned over and over again, and now those same people expect to be catered to. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:12 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
consider just how many people delayed transferring their group
It's exactly that feature that's annoying when the panicked newcomers complain now. They were warned that yahoo was going down time and time again, but they poo-poo'd it. They had plenty of opportunities to move when the going was good. I'm not saying this is true of everyone who's jumping yahoo's finally sinking ship in desperation. But there are enough of them out there who were warned over and over again, and now those same people expect to be catered to. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

monamouroui
 

Hi Mark,

I'd like to make a donation to a fund that would help pay transfer fees for those who cannot afford it. If you don't have one already, would you be willing to create one? But as a capitalist, I'd like to be able to make it tax- deductible. :)

Sara


On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 3:44 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

Sometimes I reflect on my youth, and harken back to that simpler time, that quieter time. You know, seven days ago.

 [Snip]

I realize it was a mistake to talk about future changes to the pricing structure without actually, you know, knowing what those changes might (or might not) be. As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups. Hopefully this will address Harm Selling's concern, among others. Also, this means that any groups that wish to move over but cannot afford the transfer fee can still take advantage of a free group's invite feature.

I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Bob Bellizzi
 

consider just how many people delayed transferring their group till "the right time" and Yahoo stompped on that, big time.
Consider that the sudden influx of yahoo groups' owners suddenly deciding, in one or two days, to move to groups.io.
Still that's an issue caused by yahoo. Finally consider where all of the suddenly needed server/archival/backup and other groups.io paid for services are going to come from.
Mark had two choices, Ignore the obvious requirement for infrastructure expansion or let everyone into an undersized  and unreliable system.
Please, as with refugees, new groups need "food and lodging" of a sort, hardware and storage/backup.  There is always a cost when new burdens are accepted.

--

Bob Bellizzi


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Pablo Sanchez <pablo@...>
 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:44 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Sometimes I reflect on my youth, and harken back to that simpler time, that quieter time. You know, seven days ago.

  • Likes cats - check
  • Smart - check
  • Knows what the hell he's doing - check
  • Has a sense of humor - double check!
Seems like all the bases are covered!  <3 

-pablo


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Bob J
 

I see no problem changing the prices, based on an obvious unforeseen increase of expenses.

However, all existing free groups should be given at least a month to be grandfathered into the Oct 21st price of $10 month/$110 a year with
any new optional transfer request being an additional $110.  This way existing basic/free groups could decide (within reasonable time)
to signup for premium before a price increase, or take the risk now to remain free, but might an even higher cost later with any
subscription pricing changes.

All new groups wanting premium or transfer services would fall under new pricing structure.  It's not price gauging to cover new unforeseen costs. Anyone
reasonable would understand the huge influx of yahoo groups caused a large unforeseen cost to GIO, as well as a necessary new revenue stream to cover those costs.
Bob


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

Hi Mark, Thank you for the reply.

My messages in this group were impulsive. So I removed them earlier this evening. I thought I signed up for your service for a one-time fee of 110 dollar, and no more, not now not in the future. But when I saw your notice I saw amounts of 220 dollar a year or a fee per group member.

The Yahoo group I'd like to transfer, has a member list of 1188 members. But that list is a result of almost 20 years (since the year 2000), without regular cleaning. I suppose only a small part of the members in the list is really active anymore.

The flow in the group is small, average 40-50 messages a month. In the past (the period 2003-2013) the flow was much larger, average 300-400 a month.

I'll wait for the Yahoo group transfer and after that I'll clean the members list, by checking the members, so I can remove the bouncing addresses and the members who don't reply. So I hope, to bring the members list into line with the real actual smaller size of the group.

Harm Selling


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL
 

That sounds like a good idea..

73,

Kevin Bess - KK4BFN


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S9 on the Sprint Network because it's hard to carry an HF radio in your pocket!

   

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 4:30 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Mark,


... As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups.

Please edit https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/22528 to reflect that change - the pricing page links to it.

My intention with the pricing change is solely to set up the business for long term success and to help offset the very large increase in my costs over just this past week.

I should have said so yesterday, but if it is even close to economically feasible you should push the effective date of the pricing change out to at least Nov 1st. As it stands you've whacked a bunch of Y!Group owners while they're still reeling from Yahoo's announcement. The near-zero-notice price change has not only caused much anguish but also a backlash of ill-will towards Groups.io, besmirching its reputation as a solid home for Y!Group refugees. The price change is a problem for many, but for many others the lack of notice is an even bigger issue.

Shal


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

Mark,


... As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups.

Please edit https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/22528 to reflect that change - the pricing page links to it.

My intention with the pricing change is solely to set up the business for long term success and to help offset the very large increase in my costs over just this past week.

I should have said so yesterday, but if it is even close to economically feasible you should push the effective date of the pricing change out to at least Nov 1st. As it stands you've whacked a bunch of Y!Group owners while they're still reeling from Yahoo's announcement. The near-zero-notice price change has not only caused much anguish but also a backlash of ill-will towards Groups.io, besmirching its reputation as a solid home for Y!Group refugees. The price change is a problem for many, but for many others the lack of notice is an even bigger issue.

Shal


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

rich hurd
 

Kevin,

"Transfer approval?"  The instructions clearly stated that Step 1 was to upgrade to the Premium service and pay a year in advance before you started anything else. 

I'm an amateur myself - WC3T - so I come from a bunch of cheapos.   :)   I saw an amazing thing recently, though.  If you go to the Elecraft-KX3 group, however, you'll see a ton of folks who are committing to "passing the hat" and helping defray the cost of the GIO service. 

I prefer to think that people will offer to help out to keep a good thing going.   I did the same thing with my group.   Don't try and do it alone but I sure wouldn't give up on this service yet.


On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 4:15 PM Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL <kk4bfn@...> wrote:
I was waiting for the transfer approval to go through before having to subscribe... now its double to do so.... no bueno

73,

Kevin 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S on the Sprint Network because it's hard to carry an HF radio in your pocket!

   

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 4:05 PM Leeni <leeniluvsgroups@...> wrote:
Why don't you all read what the message Mark wote means.
You are all reading into it more then it says. If you have a free group it will remain free unless your membership exceeds 500 members and only then you might have to pay to host your group on the site. But he didn't say EVERYONE will have to Pay to use Groups IO.
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer - next year your use on groups IO could be free if you opt not to continue with paying for the service. Now groups that have over 500 members may have to pay. 
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer you will not be paying the higher fee that groups that just initiated the process will have to pay. It is because they are in crunch mode that the fee was made higher due to the amount of work Mark has to put in and probably due to hardware he needed to get to accommodate thousands of groups wanting to be be transferred. In no way is it equivalent to price gouging. Mark has incurred extra expenses to have all these groups come aboard at one time.   Mark has to spend a lot of extra time to beat the deadline of Yahoo deleting everything. He wants to get everything in before all is lost at Yahoo. His time is worth something.
 
You all are putting the cart before the horse and making this into something that it isn't.  
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 10/22/2019 1:35:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change
 
I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.
 



--

We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.” ― John F Kennedy


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL
 

I was waiting for the transfer approval to go through before having to subscribe... now its double to do so.... no bueno

73,

Kevin 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S on the Sprint Network because it's hard to carry an HF radio in your pocket!

   

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 4:05 PM Leeni <leeniluvsgroups@...> wrote:
Why don't you all read what the message Mark wote means.
You are all reading into it more then it says. If you have a free group it will remain free unless your membership exceeds 500 members and only then you might have to pay to host your group on the site. But he didn't say EVERYONE will have to Pay to use Groups IO.
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer - next year your use on groups IO could be free if you opt not to continue with paying for the service. Now groups that have over 500 members may have to pay. 
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer you will not be paying the higher fee that groups that just initiated the process will have to pay. It is because they are in crunch mode that the fee was made higher due to the amount of work Mark has to put in and probably due to hardware he needed to get to accommodate thousands of groups wanting to be be transferred. In no way is it equivalent to price gouging. Mark has incurred extra expenses to have all these groups come aboard at one time.   Mark has to spend a lot of extra time to beat the deadline of Yahoo deleting everything. He wants to get everything in before all is lost at Yahoo. His time is worth something.
 
You all are putting the cart before the horse and making this into something that it isn't.  
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 10/22/2019 1:35:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change
 
I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.
 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Leeni
 

Why don't you all read what the message Mark wote means.
You are all reading into it more then it says. If you have a free group it will remain free unless your membership exceeds 500 members and only then you might have to pay to host your group on the site. But he didn't say EVERYONE will have to Pay to use Groups IO.
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer - next year your use on groups IO could be free if you opt not to continue with paying for the service. Now groups that have over 500 members may have to pay. 
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer you will not be paying the higher fee that groups that just initiated the process will have to pay. It is because they are in crunch mode that the fee was made higher due to the amount of work Mark has to put in and probably due to hardware he needed to get to accommodate thousands of groups wanting to be be transferred. In no way is it equivalent to price gouging. Mark has incurred extra expenses to have all these groups come aboard at one time.   Mark has to spend a lot of extra time to beat the deadline of Yahoo deleting everything. He wants to get everything in before all is lost at Yahoo. His time is worth something.
 
You all are putting the cart before the horse and making this into something that it isn't.  
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 10/22/2019 1:35:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change
 
I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.
 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

ps I see that my post and Mark's crossed-in-transit!   


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

Hi all,

1)  First of all, THANK YOU, Mark and helpers, for doing this deluge of work, working to transfer a billion yahoo groups before yahoo groups effectively end.

We are very happy we transferred our groups last year, and have been very happy with groups.io's performance!
I recently posted on a number of yahoo groups, hey, heads up, you can move to groups.io!  and some of them are transferring.

2)  Re price increase -- I understand that the need to expand capacity suddenly, costs a lot of money -- It's just unfortunate that you did this as a one-day surprise. 

3)  For the future -- I own a GIO group with over 3k members, teaches about cat rescue, and most of the members are pretty low income.  When you'd announced that the premium would be $110/year, I was thinking, we could do that, we obviously want groups.io to continue and flourish -- currently it's free since we transferred before, but I was thinking maybe we could go to the pay-110-a-year version.  I'm pretty sure that if I asked members to pay, it would freak a bunch of them out, often they're dealing with very stressful situations and they're trying to find money for spay-neuter, etc., most often paying for it themselves -- so, it'd be us and a couple more-involved members, chipping in, I imagine. 

As well as cat rescue groups, there are many groups around human medical issues, often those groups are the only good source of information for people with rare conditions (I have several). 

But yep, thinking about that, you'll do after dealing with the deluge!  Thanks again!

p.s. to HELEN -- thank you so much for Tanya's Feline CKD!  we've sent a zillion people to you over the years, bought your book, etc., and your work has helped us with many CKD cats. 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 12:24 PM Jens Yeager via Groups.Io <jens_yeager=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a yahoo group transfer request already in the queue I gave the 'go ahead' yesterday.

I have been waiting to take advantage of the opportunity to have my transfer prioritized by paying the additional $200.

It is after 9AM Pacific Time, October 22 but I do not see a way to prioritize my existing transfer.

Go to https://groups.io/yahootransfer, then select your existing transfer. On that page, there should be a button to prioritize your transfer. If you don't see it, please contact me off-list and I'll investigate.

Thanks,
Mark 

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