Date   

moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

Mark,

 

I've approached you by direct mail.
After reading your replies I've regained my confidence and I assume that I finally won't be disappointed.

---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Mark Fletcher
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2019 22:44
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:36 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.

 

The most important thing is to get the data out of Yahoo and safely stored. That's the export part of the system. Once the data is out, it doesn't matter if Yahoo Groups is up/gone/malfunctioning/whatever. Your group has already been exported, it's just now in the queue to be loaded into Groups.io. What you saw this morning was a bunch of priority transfers bumping to the head of the line. I really am going as fast as I can with this.

 

What seems to be the case with the incoming Yahoo Groups is that they are averaging large numbers of messages, as I suppose you'd expect from long running groups. The messages take the most time to import and can't be done in parallel, because the threading algorithm expects to see messages in order, like you'd normally get in a mailing list. I could perhaps fix that, but I don't have the time right now.

 

 

Mark


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 01:46 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
the focus is on running a sustainable business
And on cats. 😎
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 1:01 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:


I'll be honest. When I knew before that the focus of Groups.io was money instead of service, I'd never chosen for Groups.io.


In terms of money, the focus is on running a sustainable business.

 

I'm not happy with the service up to now and I'm afraid Groups.io will not fullfill the agreement. I regret my decision to give Groups.io my confidence.

I am happy to refund your payment (and anyone elses). Contact me off-list and I'll process the refund and delete your group.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Leeni
 

I totally agree with you Duane.
 
What some of these members do not realize the extra time and expense it is costing Mark to do them a favor by having their groups transfer automatically. He could have easily said to them - Create a group and transfer all of your files, messages, members manually. That is still an option for any group that can't pay. 
 
This in no way is Groups IO's fault or Mark's fault.
 
Last year I saw the writing on the wall at Yahoo when messages were not being sent, lots of outages, service being poor. That was when I moved my groups to IO and it was done for free. There wasn't any time frame needed to get it done.  Any one of you could have done the same thing. Many group owners moved to IO long before I did as well.
 
Now when Yahoo gives a date for all your information to be gone, you all are in a panic. Yes, there are groups that are on Yahoo backed by corporations and have the funds to pay. Moving everything to Groups IO would be deemed very important. I also know there are groups on Yahoo that were like mine, hobby type group. The hobby type groups can easily carry on without prior messages. Files can be added manually and members can get invites. I did that with one Yahoo group I just inherited. I transferred it over myself. 
 
Mark came up with a solution to help you and you all are giving him backlash.
 
He can just as easily tell you all, you are on your own with your migration.  
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: Duane
Date: 10/24/2019 1:53:27 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer
 
On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 01:44 PM, Harm Selling wrote:
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.
It's my understanding that those that are paying the extra fee of $200 get put in front of those that don't find it that urgent.  Also note that the number is an estimate, not carved in stone.  I'm sure the seemingly constant glitches at Yahoo aren't helping any.  (And believe it or not, Mark does need to get some sleep now and then...)

Duane
 


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:36 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.


The most important thing is to get the data out of Yahoo and safely stored. That's the export part of the system. Once the data is out, it doesn't matter if Yahoo Groups is up/gone/malfunctioning/whatever. Your group has already been exported, it's just now in the queue to be loaded into Groups.io. What you saw this morning was a bunch of priority transfers bumping to the head of the line. I really am going as fast as I can with this.

What seems to be the case with the incoming Yahoo Groups is that they are averaging large numbers of messages, as I suppose you'd expect from long running groups. The messages take the most time to import and can't be done in parallel, because the threading algorithm expects to see messages in order, like you'd normally get in a mailing list. I could perhaps fix that, but I don't have the time right now.


Mark


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

I'll write a pm to Mark with my burdens……


---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Barry_M via Groups.Io
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2019 22:32
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

I’m going to stop commenting on this since I’m
not authorized in any way to represent this platform.

That said, Harm and others, we may be over complicating this with the priority fee and expressed concerns with service.

Small organization.  Sudden, large and unexpected demands on the platforms.  So, somewhat overwhelming. Reasonable deduction, no?

True that queues normally reduce rather than increase. Unless one is trying to catch up with a chaotic situation.

I ask again that any frustrated by the “service” here compare what the service quality was at YG.  And, please, try to put oneself in Mark’s shoes before being too critical.  For those who care, there are many here who can testify to this being a wonderfully effective platform with serious competence and admirable values behind it. That’s why I’m here.  FWIW.


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

David Tuma
 

How do I find out where in the transfer queue I am?

w/r,
David







On Oct 24, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.
If Groups.io cannot deliver on the demand before the closure of Yahoo Groups, it has to refund a lot of payments (because of not fulfilling the agreements). If there's a continuous stream of customers with priority (I think companies, because 200 dollar is an exorbitant amount for individuals), the backlog is growing bigger and cannot be solved anymore.

I think the current priority should be eliminating the backlog instead of making money from priority requests.

Harm



moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Jim Member <jmurray1@...>
 

Sorry, I gotta go. I'll try you when I get home but if not maybe we can connect tomorrow. I do promise, I'll only take a few minutes of your time.

Thanks

On 10/24/2019 2:35 PM, Harm Selling wrote:

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.
If Groups.io cannot deliver on the demand before the closure of Yahoo Groups, it has to refund a lot of payments (because of not fulfilling the agreements). If there's a continuous stream of customers with priority (I think companies, because 200 dollar is an exorbitant amount for individuals), the backlog is growing bigger and cannot be solved anymore.

I think the current priority should be eliminating the backlog instead of making money from priority requests.

Harm


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Barry_M
 

I’m going to stop commenting on this since I’m
not authorized in any way to represent this platform.

That said, Harm and others, we may be over complicating this with the priority fee and expressed concerns with service.

Small organization.  Sudden, large and unexpected demands on the platforms.  So, somewhat overwhelming. Reasonable deduction, no?

True that queues normally reduce rather than increase. Unless one is trying to catch up with a chaotic situation.

I ask again that any frustrated by the “service” here compare what the service quality was at YG.  And, please, try to put oneself in Mark’s shoes before being too critical.  For those who care, there are many here who can testify to this being a wonderfully effective platform with serious competence and admirable values behind it. That’s why I’m here.  FWIW.


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.
If Groups.io cannot deliver on the demand before the closure of Yahoo Groups, it has to refund a lot of payments (because of not fulfilling the agreements). If there's a continuous stream of customers with priority (I think companies, because 200 dollar is an exorbitant amount for individuals), the backlog is growing bigger and cannot be solved anymore.

I think the current priority should be eliminating the backlog instead of making money from priority requests.

Harm


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Jim Member <jmurray1@...>
 

Harm,

You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

Best,

Jim

On 10/24/2019 1:43 PM, Harm Selling wrote:

I understand. But it's usual that a queue (in the super market, at the airport, a telephone help desk) is gradually shrinking instead of growing.

A Dutch famous comedian had a conference about a telephone helpdesk.
The public hears:
"There are 2 people waiting for you"
Thereafter:
"There are 3 people waiting for you"
The audience is laughing about this joke. But here the joke turns out reality???. The queue has grown from 70 to 77 in one day. That's very strange and gives no confidence.
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.


---

Harm Selling

??

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Barry_M via Groups.Io
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2019 20:31
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

??

Selling Harm???Have to be patient. ??Groups.io isn???t a big company with a huge team that can quickly process a large number of transfers whilst keeping the quality and experience good. ??Groups had no more advance warning than any YG manager did and just hadn???t been preparing for it. ??This is a great platform run by a fantastically competent, experienced and compassionate person (who also has a fab sense of humor). ??It???ll all get done. ??We all need to return the same level of compassion, as much empathy as can be summoned and patience. ??Thanks for considering this! ????


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Duane
 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 01:44 PM, Harm Selling wrote:
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.
It's my understanding that those that are paying the extra fee of $200 get put in front of those that don't find it that urgent.  Also note that the number is an estimate, not carved in stone.  I'm sure the seemingly constant glitches at Yahoo aren't helping any.  (And believe it or not, Mark does need to get some sleep now and then...)

Duane


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

I understand. But it's usual that a queue (in the super market, at the airport, a telephone help desk) is gradually shrinking instead of growing.

A Dutch famous comedian had a conference about a telephone helpdesk.
The public hears:
"There are 2 people waiting for you"
Thereafter:
"There are 3 people waiting for you"
The audience is laughing about this joke. But here the joke turns out reality…. The queue has grown from 70 to 77 in one day. That's very strange and gives no confidence.
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.


---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Barry_M via Groups.Io
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2019 20:31
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

Selling Harm—Have to be patient.  Groups.io isn’t a big company with a huge team that can quickly process a large number of transfers whilst keeping the quality and experience good.  Groups had no more advance warning than any YG manager did and just hadn’t been preparing for it.  This is a great platform run by a fantastically competent, experienced and compassionate person (who also has a fab sense of humor).  It’ll all get done.  We all need to return the same level of compassion, as much empathy as can be summoned and patience.  Thanks for considering this! 🙏


moderated Re: Blank names when users join or get imported translates into postings getting rejected from mail

 

Michael,
I’m not interested in promoting my own “intentions.” Features always have some intended use when they are implemented. That’s the reason they are implemented. Often people may find other, “off label” usages for them (so to speak). And that’s fine. I am not “speaking against” anyone or even anyone’s extra usages for this or any other feature. My interest is always in the betterment of the product as a whole.
Take care.

On Oct 24, 2019, at 11:26 AM, Michael Pavan <michaelpavan@comcast.net> wrote:



On Oct 24, 2019, at 12:06 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 09:02 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
the intention(s) of anyone else
No intentions at all here, simply pointing out how the feature currently works.
The Display Name does currently work as an identifier of who the email belongs to, a sorting reference for the Members list, as well as of who sent a message.
Try it and see.

It does take the name from any email sent if there is one,
Yes, this is the way it currently is automatically populated,
and yes, as you pointed out you do, Display Names can be done manually.
which is generally sufficient for its *intended* purpose (i.e., displaying with the member's sent messages).
I won't quibble with you that for you it serves your intended purpose.
I do know from my experience and what others have stated that it also serves the purpose of identifying who the email belongs to and as a sorting reference for the Members list - try it.

Of course if people have other uses for it that necessitates a change in the feature, why would anyone object. I certainly have no issue.
Than why speak against them???


--
J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
Agreed







--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Barry_M
 

Selling Harm—Have to be patient.  Groups.io isn’t a big company with a huge team that can quickly process a large number of transfers whilst keeping the quality and experience good.  Groups had no more advance warning than any YG manager did and just hadn’t been preparing for it.  This is a great platform run by a fantastically competent, experienced and compassionate person (who also has a fab sense of humor).  It’ll all get done.  We all need to return the same level of compassion, as much empathy as can be summoned and patience.  Thanks for considering this! 🙏


moderated Re: Blank names when users join or get imported translates into postings getting rejected from mail

Michael Pavan
 

On Oct 24, 2019, at 12:06 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 09:02 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
the intention(s) of anyone else
No intentions at all here, simply pointing out how the feature currently works.
The Display Name does currently work as an identifier of who the email belongs to, a sorting reference for the Members list, as well as of who sent a message.
Try it and see.

It does take the name from any email sent if there is one,
Yes, this is the way it currently is automatically populated,
and yes, as you pointed out you do, Display Names can be done manually.
which is generally sufficient for its *intended* purpose (i.e., displaying with the member's sent messages).
I won't quibble with you that for you it serves your intended purpose.
I do know from my experience and what others have stated that it also serves the purpose of identifying who the email belongs to and as a sorting reference for the Members list - try it.

Of course if people have other uses for it that necessitates a change in the feature, why would anyone object. I certainly have no issue.
Than why speak against them???


--
J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
Agreed


moderated Re: Is there any way I can determine if the Yahoo invitation has been received

Judy F.
 

Thanks Mark, I guess I’m thinking the same thing.  I paid the fee because I have the receipt where it has been paid and then I clicked the Easy Yahoo Group Transfer and proceeded.  Here’s what I figured out. 

1) when asked for the group email address, I thought that meant mine instead of the actual sewwhatembroiderysoftware  yes, I know it said ‘group’, but my email is also my group email address. 

 

I have now fixed that and clicked the Update Transfer.  I see a note where the invite has been received and will accept it soon. 

 

Sorry to cause this problem, but I’m glad I contacted you since I would still be waiting.  I really appreciate you help on this.  Please let me know if there is still something that is causing a problem. 

 

Judy F.

Sew What Embroidery Software IO

SW Florida - USA

 


moderated Re: Blank names when users join or get imported translates into postings getting rejected from mail

Duane
 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 10:59 AM, William Ellis wrote:
Group.IO does display only the . when a message is in the group
The group should display a portion of the persons email address if they haven't set a Display Name at all.  The only place I can see anything else on my groups is when the person has left the group and their name is replaced with 3 periods ...

Duane


moderated Re: Blank names when users join or get imported translates into postings getting rejected from mail

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 08:59 AM, Tanya's Feline CKD wrote:
Looks like it's also a feature you might be able to use too,
Possibly. What I personally have been requesting for quite awhile (and there was a whole discussion about this at one point) is putting the Display Name under control of the group moderators/owners, so that they can't go and change it back to something else from our required format. But the issue is complex, because things happen to the Display Name when the person changes their overall groups.io User Name. Or used to. That causes, or used to cause, a change in the Display Name for all their groups as well. I haven't kept track of how this heirarchy has evolved over time. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Blank names when users join or get imported translates into postings getting rejected from mail

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 09:02 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
the intention(s) of anyone else
No intentions at all here, simply pointing out how the feature currently works. It does take the name from any email sent if there is one, which is generally sufficient for its *intended* purpose (i.e., displaying with the member's sent messages). Of course if people have other uses for it that necessitates a change in the feature, why would anyone object. I certainly have no issue.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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