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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
(typo - “set moderator privileges,” not “set moderator options”)
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On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:42 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
-- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect. We would expect notifications to be available corresponding to privileges, regardless of “set moderator privikeges” - e.g., mod with “approve pending member” privileges can opt to receive pending member notifications, mod with “approved pending message” messages analogous, etc. I don’t see what “set moderator options” has, it should have, anything to do with this.??? So I am perplexed. In any case I’ll run my tests again.
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On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:34 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
-- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
Ok, thsnks, that’s weird. I’ll do it again and see what happens.
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On Jan 2, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
-- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
Jeremy H
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 12:16 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 12:12 PM, Jeremy H wrote:I think you misunderstand. Groups.io costs (and the the benefits it provides) are based on very small units, with very small prices, but these build up - bits to bytes to words to posts to topics to groups to the whole Groups.io 'system' - and the price similarly mounts up to large. The problem is how you divide up, account for and pay/be paid that large amount (based on very many small amounts) without the accounts function overwhelming the rest of the business. Without knowing, Mark's answer seems essentially to be 'crudely' - his proposed pricing structure is by group, by number of members. Which keeps the accounting and invoicing fairly simple (hence cheap). He could be counting bytes stored and transmitted for each group, to give a price better matched to each group's costs - but that would cost him more money (which he doesn't think worth it) And every other business has essentially the same issue. Jeremy (Apologies - while I drafted this yesterday, didn't actually manage to send it then)
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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
Hi J,
On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote: So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record. From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record, Regards Andy
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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
Actually, never one to believe what someone else tells me without proof, I just logged into a different account which is a mod in my test group but with no privileges. The notification panel was there and all notifications were available to me.
Also, while logged in as myself, I went into the two other groups i'm on a mod in, and in which I definitely do not have "set moderation privileges." Same thing. So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise. Thanks. -- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
Great, thanks for checking that out.
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On Jan 2, 2021, at 1:24 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
-- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 11:40 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
OTOH after posting this I know only that I, as group owner, can set mods with no permissions to receive the notifications. But I don’t know if the mod themself can opt to receive the notifications. It’s possible they are selectable by me but not by the mod in their view of their member page. I haven’t tested that yet.After a bit of basic testing it seems that if a mod has been granted 'Set Moderator Privileges' then they can turn notifications on and off in the Moderator Notifications panel of their membership record. Without 'Set Moderator Privileges' the Moderator Notifications panel doesn't show so they only get what the Owner has set for them. Andy
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Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
OTOH after posting this I know only that I, as group owner, can set mods with no permissions to receive the notifications. But I don’t know if the mod themself can opt to receive the notifications. It’s possible they are selectable by me but not by the mod in their view of their member page. I haven’t tested that yet.
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On Jan 1, 2021, at 3:27 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
-- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions
#suggestion
I seem to remember (although it may be wishful thinking) Mark making it so that only mods with the corresponding permissions had the options to receive notifications. This was something I requested at one point and I thought it had been changed. But it hasn't. Any mod, with any subset of permissions (including the null set), can elect to receive notifications for anything: pending members, pending messages, etc. Did I imagine the statement about the fix? It's very difficult to traverse all the notification threads at this point.
-- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
I have no knowledge of Mark's thinking, and would prefer to let him speak for himself, where he wishes to, rather than have others speak for him. My thoughts are only to express alternative ways to look at the situation, and perhaps express my view of a balance between what might work for GIO and what might work for moderators and users - stakeholders. Hopefully that might result in a model that is both profitable and sustainable. I have doubts that the present projections meet that criteria. AllTheBest Consider Better, not Bigger. So many advantages. Just ask. USA adds a Chicago to our overpop each year. "Still more population growth is not our way to a healthy community, a healthy planet, OR enjoyable cycling." ~Mike
On Friday, January 1, 2021, 06:06:33 PM EST, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 10:18 PM, Mike Hanauer wrote: Those represent a thought process that I go through when evaluating a venture. I suggest Mark personally do the same.Well I for one expect that Mark has done exactly that, but I would not expect him to reveal the details. It's called commercial confidentiality. Chris
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
Chris Jones
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 10:18 PM, Mike Hanauer wrote:
Those represent a thought process that I go through when evaluating a venture. I suggest Mark personally do the same.Well I for one expect that Mark has done exactly that, but I would not expect him to reveal the details. It's called commercial confidentiality. Chris
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
I don't care of the answers. Those represent a thought process that I go through when evaluating a venture. I suggest Mark personally do the same. Rather than just criticizing, why not state your objection? Consider Better, not Bigger. So many advantages. Just ask. USA adds a Chicago to our overpop each year. "Still more population growth is not our way to a healthy community, a healthy planet, OR enjoyable cycling." ~Mike
On Friday, January 1, 2021, 05:04:54 PM EST, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 01:51 PM, Mike Hanauer wrote: How much, Mark, do you feel you need to make from all your endeavors to meet your desires?You're seriously purporting to ask Mark how much income he wants, and how much of it he wants to come from groups.io? God I love this thread... -- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 01:51 PM, Mike Hanauer wrote:
How much, Mark, do you feel you need to make from all your endeavors to meet your desires?You're seriously purporting to ask Mark how much income he wants, and how much of it he wants to come from groups.io? God I love this thread... -- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
I think more important is for assessing pricing is:
AllTheBest. Consider Better, not Bigger. So many advantages. Just ask. USA adds a Chicago to our overpop each year. "Still more population growth is not our way to a healthy community, a healthy planet, OR enjoyable cycling." ~Mike
On Friday, January 1, 2021, 04:33:28 PM EST, billsf9c via groups.io <oowonbs@...> wrote:
Maybe we could think and suggest better if we first ask Mark... How much do you need per group? And/or... How much do you need per member... To fund all that must be funded, including 'growth.' Pointing out that at 5$/groups we join would cause me to drop all but 1 or 3 groups I'm in (of perhaps 30, most of which I am inactive in,) is a cumbersome way to describe our potential to pay... aside from the difficulty of payment if it is done group by group. Rewarding non-posters who lower bandwidth is a recipie for failing lists. Maybe rewarding those who don't read online helps, but then Premium is shot in the foot. BillSF9c
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 03:33 PM, billsf9c wrote:
Pointing out that at 5$/groups we joinI don't believe that was ever mentioned. You may be thinking about the $5 per account (email address) that was proposed, so you'd only pay $5 per year if you use the same account for all groups. Duane
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
billsf9c
Maybe we could think and suggest better if we first ask Mark...
How much do you need per group? And/or... How much do you need per member... To fund all that must be funded, including 'growth.' Pointing out that at 5$/groups we join would cause me to drop all but 1 or 3 groups I'm in (of perhaps 30, most of which I am inactive in,) is a cumbersome way to describe our potential to pay... aside from the difficulty of payment if it is done group by group. Rewarding non-posters who lower bandwidth is a recipie for failing lists. Maybe rewarding those who don't read online helps, but then Premium is shot in the foot. BillSF9c
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
Bob Bellizzi
Trying to put this email burden into perspective, I've just done a bit of simple math on our main group.
In December we received 379 individual messages from our members. I base this on the message numbers in our archive. Our December 31 membersip was 3892 but I figured to usinng 38i50 average members which is conservative for our 20 year old group Doing the math based on premise that all members received individual messages, groups.io transmitted 1459150 total messages to our members. Doing the math based on premise that all members received digest, each of 12 messages, groups.io would have transmitted 121595 total digests to our members. This would have also reduced the compute burden just for message transmission to 1/12 of individual message transmission burden. BTW it would have also reduced each member's supplier's burden by the same amount. Of course if all members simply used the online messaging the burdens would be a great deal smaller. -- Bob Bellizzi
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
Bob Bellizzi
Shal,
There is also a fairly large amount of compute burden in modern email for DMARK and other spam preventive measures for each message sent that must be considered when comparing the "burden" difference between individual message dellivery to members and digest delivery. -- Bob Bellizzi
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Re: Pricing Changes
#update
Happy New Year to you and everyone too! 😊🐱
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On Jan 1, 2021, at 10:10 AM, txercoupemuseum.org <ercoguru@...> wrote:
-- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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