Date   

Re: Invitation email misdirection #bug

 

We're finding that people are suspicious because they don't know what groups.io is -- even Yahoo Groups members.  Hence my suggestion of adding something like "a modern platform for serious online communities" to the invitation emails.
--cg



From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of Curt Gowan <curt.gowan@...>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 2:12 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io>
Subject: [beta] Invitation email misdirection #bug
 
If a group owner invites someone who has a gmail address, they get this friendly, well-worded email:
 
---------------------
Invitation to join the <GroupName>.groups.io group
 
Hello,
 
You have been invited by <OwnerName> to join the Groups.io group   <GroupName>.groups.io.
 
The following message was included by <OwnerName>:
 
<umpteen-line invitation text from group owner>
 
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may accept the invitation <CodedLink> on the website.
 
If you have questions about this invitation, send them to <GroupOwnerAddress>
 
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may accept the invitation on the website.
 
If you are not interested, or if <InviteeEmail> is not your email address, please ignore this email.
 
Cheers,
The Groups.io Team
---------------------
 
Sending a reply or clicking on the coded link both work fine.
 
However, Gmail makes
<groupname>.groups.io  
in the first line into a live link.
 
That link is the first thing the recipient sees.
A significant percentage of invitees will not see the rest of the instructions after the group owner's text and will simply click the link. 
 
If the recipient clicks the link, they go the homepage for the group, with a button "Apply for Membership In This Group"
 
When they click the button, they get this screen 
"Your request to join the <GroupName>.groups.io Groups.io group has been submitted to the group managers."
 
Seems to me that the group name should be given in the email without ".groups.io" appended -- so that it is not converted by gmail into a link, which adds steps for the invitee and leads them off the track.
 
Perhaps that line in the invitation email could say something like this...
You have been invited by <OwnerName> to join <GroupName> on the Groups.io system, a modern platform for serious online communities.
 
Thanks for listening,
--cg
 


Invitation email misdirection #bug

 

If a group owner invites someone who has a gmail address, they get this friendly, well-worded email:
 
---------------------
Invitation to join the <GroupName>.groups.io group
 
Hello,
 
You have been invited by <OwnerName> to join the Groups.io group   <GroupName>.groups.io.
 
The following message was included by <OwnerName>:
 
<umpteen-line invitation text from group owner>
 
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may accept the invitation <CodedLink> on the website.
 
If you have questions about this invitation, send them to <GroupOwnerAddress>
 
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may accept the invitation on the website.
 
If you are not interested, or if <InviteeEmail> is not your email address, please ignore this email.
 
Cheers,
The Groups.io Team
---------------------
 
Sending a reply or clicking on the coded link both work fine.
 
However, Gmail makes
<groupname>.groups.io  
in the first line into a live link.
 
That link is the first thing the recipient sees.
A significant percentage of invitees will not see the rest of the instructions after the group owner's text and will simply click the link. 
 
If the recipient clicks the link, they go the homepage for the group, with a button "Apply for Membership In This Group"
 
When they click the button, they get this screen 
"Your request to join the <GroupName>.groups.io Groups.io group has been submitted to the group managers."
 
Seems to me that the group name should be given in the email without ".groups.io" appended -- so that it is not converted by gmail into a link, which adds steps for the invitee and leads them off the track.
 
Perhaps that line in the invitation email could say something like this...
You have been invited by <OwnerName> to join <GroupName> on the Groups.io system, a modern platform for serious online communities.
 
Thanks for listening,
--cg
 


Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

Based on Duane's results I just changed my group description to include the term "feline lymphoma" without "small cell" in the middle of it.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 01:28 PM, Duane wrote:
By using "feline lymphoma" (without quotes), it narrows it down to 4.  With quotes, there are only 2.
And of the two, one of them (the feline cancer group) deals with feline lymphoma only very tangentially if at all. It happens to include those words deep in the description. My group, on the other hand, specifically and *only* deals with feline lymphoma, and is not included in the "feline lymphoma" search because the title is "Feline Small Cell Lymphoma," a specific kind. So the results for "feline lymphoma" are very, very misleading to people looking for a group on feline lymphoma.

It would be most helpful if the display order

(1) prioritized groups with the search term in the name rather than just the description (whether in quotes or not - I'd now like to change the title of my group based on these extremely misleading results, but too late for that);'

(2) did away with the whole uppercase, lowercase criterion;

(3) allowed a second filter chosed by user according to the criteria available for non-name searches (Duane has showed how simple this would be to implement);

(4) IMO did away with the alpha order, or at minimum used alpha order instead of reverse alpha order;

How can I change the name of my group to have it display in a "feline lymphoma" search? Or how can the search be changed to include it, since we ONLY deal with feline lymphoma and are (misleadingly) not included in these results?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Email Address change #suggestion

 

Hi All,

I just added a confirmation dialog when changing your email address. It displays the new email address and requires that you click the Ok button to proceed. Please check it out and if you think an additional step is needed after that, please let me know.

Thanks,
Mark


Re: Tell members why the Directory only shows them some other members #suggestion

 

Hello,

I've added `(members with private profiles are not shown)` to the page when a non-moderator is viewing the page.

Thanks,
Mark

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 7:12 AM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 05:38 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
At the top, the Directory page says "Showing 294 of 1103 Members". Please add to that statement "809 members with private profiles not shown".
Shal/Mark -- Any members who are Not Confirmed or are Bouncing also do not appear in the Directory. May I suggest to simply state "Members with private profiles not shown"? Otherwise this could raise additional questions as to why the numbers don't add up. 

Regards,
Bruce


Re: Tell members why the Directory only shows them some other members #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 05:38 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
At the top, the Directory page says "Showing 294 of 1103 Members". Please add to that statement "809 members with private profiles not shown".
Shal/Mark -- Any members who are Not Confirmed or are Bouncing also do not appear in the Directory. May I suggest to simply state "Members with private profiles not shown"? Otherwise this could raise additional questions as to why the numbers don't add up. 

Regards,
Bruce


Tell members why the Directory only shows them some other members #suggestion

 

Mark,

It's a FAQ in GMF and Group_Help: "My group members report that in the Directory they only see (some small number) of the (some large number of) members. Why?"

At the top, the Directory page says "Showing 294 of 1103 Members". Please add to that statement "809 members with private profiles not shown".

Shal


Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

Duane
 

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 02:00 PM, Drew wrote:
I suspect that most people who type in terms for a group search are probably inputting multiple word searches
I usually start with one word.  If I get a big bunch of results, I'll try to think of another one that could narrow it more.  (I'm mostly successful, but sometimes it's interesting just to scroll through a big list.)  Using J's "feline" example, it currently finds 47 groups.  By using "feline lymphoma" (without quotes), it narrows it down to 4.  With quotes, there are only 2.

Duane


Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

Drew
 

It may be helpful to group owners to consider all of the possible keywords that pertain to their group's particular interest and include those words in a separate section of your group description. There are very few, if any, group categories that can't be narrowed to one page or less of results with just a two- or three-word search.

I suspect that most people who type in terms for a group search are probably inputting multiple word searches rather than just "cats", "dogs", "cars", etc. For exampel "cats illness", or "american cars", etc narrows multiple page results to just one page. At that point it's not particularly useful to order the results by creation date or number of subscribers, etc. since it's so easy to scan by eye.

Drew

On 11/19/20 14:35, Marv Waschke wrote:
I give Mark credit for providing functionality here without a lot of work on his part. I'm sure it's all priorities.
That being said, J_Catlady has a point. Ease in finding groups to join is important to both group owners and potential group members. A lot could be done to improve this interface. Very few people are capable of sussing out url search syntax like Duane. Perhaps we can do Mark a service by figuring out what could be done to make the interface more useful.
The simplest value add that I can see is to use the choice of sort orders on the left (Most Popular, Most Active, Newest, By Name) to sort the results of a search, not just the unfiltered list. I would also change the collation sequence of the By Name sort to be case insensitive. Much more sophisticated Google-search-like approaches are possible, I suppose, but this sounds relatively simple to implement.
Let me repeat: I would give this some priority because it would make gio groups more accessible.
Best, Marv


Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

Sandi D
 

I just searched for an Apple-Mac group on my iPad. There we 72 results listed on one page. What I found useful was the full description of the groups. So even those with somewhat "weird" group names were included. It wasn't hard for me to scroll down the list and determine those that were of interest to me. 

I then search for feline and got 47 hits on "one page". 
Many people use mobile devices and being able to scroll down the entire list is very helpful instead of having to click a new page of results. 

It would have been nice to see which of groups were closed or charged a member fee so I didnt spend time considering if those groups were a good fit. A few of the pages that I visited didn't put that information into their description. I wasn't interested in paying to join a group. 

I do like that the search captured terms used in their description and not just their group name. I have experience in Boolean searches so having some sort of advanced feature search would be welcome. 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.


Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

Marv Waschke
 

I give Mark credit for providing functionality here without a lot of work on his part. I'm sure it's all priorities.

That being said, J_Catlady has a point. Ease in finding groups to join is important to both group owners and potential group members. A lot could be done to improve this interface. Very few people are capable of sussing out url search syntax like Duane. Perhaps we can do Mark a service by figuring out what could be done to make the interface more useful.

The simplest value add that I can see is to use the choice of sort orders on the left (Most Popular, Most Active, Newest, By Name) to sort the results of a search, not just the unfiltered list. I would also change the collation sequence of the By Name sort to be case insensitive. Much more sophisticated Google-search-like approaches are possible, I suppose, but this sounds relatively simple to implement.

Let me repeat: I would give this some priority because it would make gio groups more accessible.
Best, Marv


moderated Re: Group Search Sort Options? #suggestion

Duane
 

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:21 PM, ro-esp wrote:
I don't really understand why we can click "newest" but not "oldest".
You can, but not by clicking a button.  (This topic is related to the newer one at https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/78334723)  To get oldest first, change the URL to https://groups.io/search?p=Created,,,20,1,0,0

Duane


moderated Re: Group Search Sort Options? #suggestion

ro-esp
 

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 09:52 PM, ro-esp wrote:

and if groups.io really takes off you will need sortings by worldparts and
languages...
Currently there are almost 37500 publicly listed groups, and IIRC over 80.000 groups in total. I don't know how much work it will take, nor how feasible it is, but we do need ways to narrow things down. By worldparts I'm thinking like:
Worldwide
northern, southern/eastern/western hemisphere
atlantic, pacific, australia, oceania, asia, africa, europe, mediterranean, middle east, north-america, latin america.
I envision group-owners to tick boxes for those

By "by language" I mean... well there are 7000 or so languages, but even just splitting "English only" from "everything else" would help. Obviously if groups.io starts supporting other languages, those should become searchable as well

I don't really understand why we can click "newest" but not "oldest". Newest is useful for people who regularly check for new groups that may be interesting, but if you are looking for a group about a specific topic, joining a more established one may be better.


I'm not sure whether it makes sense to have classes of groups by amount of members or by amount of messages per month. If it does we need at least 4 classes for either:
tiny-small-(average)-big-huge
dormant-quiet-(average)-busy-very busy

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Re: Email Address change #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Sandi D wrote:
Maybe send a confirmation link to the new address, that they need to click on before before it is changed.
This is also an attractive suggestion, not least because it is consistent in concept to an applicant's need to respond to a Confirmation Message and possibly a Pending Subscription Message. It is also not hugely different to the "email me a log - in link".

Certainly worth considering.

Chris


Re: Email Address change #suggestion

Sandi D
 

Maybe send a confirmation link to the new address, that they need to click on before before it is changed.  I get irritated with two the field thing. I use software that auto fills my correct email. If typing is enforced, I tend to make a mistake. Sometimes the second field will not permit the software to autofill. That said, a second field would catch a number of people typing it incorrectly into one. 
By sending a confirmation change link to the new email address, if the wrong email was entered, then no change would be made. If they verified with a link that required them to log in then the changed email would stand. 

I do very much the suggestion to put up some confirmation notice before the changed email is committed. 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.


Re: Email Address change #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 09:11 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
I agree, maybe put up some confirmation notice
Or (as an alternative) have a second "confirm new email address" box so that unless a typo is repeated in the second box the request is rejected. After all, this is a common enough method used widely to minimise the risks arising from people mistyping their address.

Chris


Re: #suggestion Internationalisation in french ? #suggestion

 

 I have the same problem in my group. Many applicants try to join, but are deterred right from the start when they receieve the English confirmation email. Not everybody speaks English well enough to understand what is required to do so they just turn away. Even if they were able to use a translator, this doesn´t change much because they already are under the impression that the group is in English so they give up.

Yahoo was available in 46 languages. Is it really so difficult to create a polyglot groups.io? It has been requested quite a few times, somehow I remember it was even promised to get done one day ....and I am still hoping...

Victoria


Re: Email Address change #suggestion

Christos G. Psarras
 

I agree, maybe put up some confirmation notice when the email address field has been changed and Save gets clicked, a last chance before committing.

Cheers,
Christos


Email Address change #suggestion

Duane
 

As much as I dislike verification procedures, it might be worthwhile to have a second step to verify an email address that is entered when changing it.  On GMF, we've had at least 3 people make a typo in the new address, but proceed anyway (probably with an OhNoSecond delay ;>).  Two of them have been able to recover by using the typo address and their original password to get back in to change it to the correct address.

Thanks,
Duane