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moderated
Re: Include filename in subject line of upload mails
#suggestion
It could be restricted to x number of characters from the file name rather than the entire file name.
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moderated
Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options"
#bug
Malcolm Austen
On Tue, 19 May 2020 11:14:45 +0100, Jeremy H via groups.io <jeremygharrison=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
What I suggested, with which Jim agrees, is - as a response a question from Mark (above) - that it always be added to messages (e-mails) going through Groups.io, an eye catcher that indicates something specific has happened, that the message has passed through, and hence finally arrived from, Groups.io - something relatively meaningful for most users, and a useful indicator that it might need to responded to 'differently'.No, very strongly no. That change would mean that a mail client that auto-added address book entries would end up with an entry saying: "Malcolm Austen via groups.io" <my personal@address> in their contact list and then be misguided into thinking that anything to that address would send via groups.io, which it obviously would not. It's the users or their mail clients that are 'broken', groups.io is fine. Or are you suggesting munging the actual email address as well, in which case I'd like to record a double 'No' vote. Keep safe, Malcolm. -- Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@weald.org.uk>
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moderated
Re: Include filename in subject line of upload mails
#suggestion
Glenn Glazer
On 5/18/2020 21:28, dave w wrote:
Given that a lot of people can't restrain themselves with brevity in naming files, it may work out worse than a desirable feature. My groups don't have this problem. In fact, we have a fairly rigid naming pattern. I would not want to see this discarded because there is some possible abuse somewhere. It's like not making pencils because someone could poke someone in the eye with one. Best, Glenn --
PG&E Delenda Est
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moderated
Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options"
#bug
Jeremy H
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 03:40 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Hi Jim,For the vast majority of users 'headers' and 'DMARC requirements' are meaningless terms, just part of the 'magic' that gets their messages through the system, without them having to care what's going on, So whether "via Groups.io" is added is - for them - essentially random - it's something that 'sometimes' happens What I suggested, with which Jim agrees, is - as a response a question from Mark (above) - that it always be added to messages (e-mails) going through Groups.io, an eye catcher that indicates something specific has happened, that the message has passed through, and hence finally arrived from, Groups.io - something relatively meaningful for most users, and a useful indicator that it might need to responded to 'differently'. Jeremy
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moderated
Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options"
#bug
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 07:12 PM, Duane wrote:
As far as I know, only Thunderbird (TB) is a problem,After doing a bit more thorough testing, I've discovered that TB does work properly if using the Reply button. It's the Reply All that will also populate the group name in addition to the sender. TB also has a Reply List button that will only reply to the list. After exchanging emails with Jim, the problem he's having is that, though it's an announcement group, he has over 20 people set as moderators so they can post. Some of them use the Reply All instead of Reply, creating his dilemma. Hopefully, removing the List-Post header for his conditions (Announce-Only, Reply-to-Sender,Remove-other-options), as Shal mentioned, would resolve this while still working for the group that previously requested it. Duane
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moderated
Re: New notifications proposal
#misc
Mark,
I'd like to maintain a clear semantic and operational distinction between messages, which post to the group's archive and are sent to members in accordance to the Email Delivery and Advanced Preferences panes of their Subscription settings, and notices which do not appear in the group's archive and are sent to members based on events and other factors (including, for moderators, the Notifications pane of their Subscription). By those definitions the existing Calendar notifications (#cal-invite, #cal-reminder, and #cal-notice) are actually messages.
So when you say "turn them into a notification" here you mean something different - you mean make them available through the notification viewing system (web/app). Presumably they would also receive them by email unless they muted the associated hashtag. I think this hybrid situation for calendar events (being both messages and now possibly notifications) is probably appropriate. They may be the unique example of a notification that ought to be sent to the entire membership.
Wiki!
Or maybe not - we can argue about whether Notify Members on Upload File and those new ones ought to be treated as hybrids like the calendar events. Maybe it is time to make them notifications available to members only as an email (unless muted) or in the web/app notification viewer. Or maybe that choice is given to the group admins by allowing a new No Archive hashtag option. Users have been able to mute hashtags since the beginning, which means no email. Now, also make it so that users can check a box to turn a hashtag into a web/app notification. I'm not at all sold on this. I think it may be annoying/confusing to have the notification controls lost amid the sea of message hashtags. I'd rather have the list of them in one place, one easily read list, with the checkboxes to Show in Notification and Mute in Email as columns to that list (ok, maybe also Duration for Mute). I specifically would not want to have to find and click on a button for each one among the difficult to scan hashtag tiles and go to a confirmation page just to change it, as one currently does for changing the Mute status of a hashtag. Yuck. So, if the Hashtags page had a separate tab on it for the notification-control hashtags, and the items on that tab were presented as a list rather than an array of tiles, I'd be much happier with this. (Someone is bound to think of it, so I'll just say it: perhaps tiles or list should be a viewing option on both tabs of this page.) It would also be fair to say that I don't like the idea of notification controls as hashtags at all, and I'd rather see the list of them as a new tab in the Subscription page - since they are individual and not group settings. Though I do see that attraction to try and leverage the power of all those hashtag settings for notifications.
Oh. Now I really don't like this. Unless maybe there's still the separate tab for event-driven hashtags/notifications versus ordinary message hashtags. Or a list filter at least. And the ability to view the hastags in a compact list rather than tiles.
I think "yes". Perhaps a control much like Email Delivery for messages, but specifically pertaining to notifications. It could go in a panel at the top of the Notifications tab of the Hashtags (or Subscription) page. There may also be a need, at a finer level, to consolidate notifications if a person is making multiple sequential actions of the same type (like file or photo uploads).
I'm confused. Isn't this whole discussion about how a user chooses what to be notified about? Or do you mean something else by "feed"? Shal (I may have started rambling, it is getting much too late.)
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moderated
Re: Include filename in subject line of upload mails
#suggestion
Filtering works on content as well as 'Subject'.
Given that a lot of people can't restrain themselves with brevity in naming files, it may work out worse than a desirable feature. Regards davew
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moderated
Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options"
#bug
Mark,
What Duane said. I think for Jim's use case it would suffice to remove List-Post when Remove other options is checked. Logically it makes no sense to provide the List-Post field when that is checked (and the Reply To is set to Sender). For a group that selects Reply To Sender but allows the other option the List Post field is arguably correct, plus or minus bad boys like Thunderbird. Shal
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moderated
Re: Include filename in subject line of upload mails
#suggestion
Glenn Glazer
On 5/13/2020 21:51, Glenn Glazer wrote:
My members ask: Not really sure how to interpret radio silence here. Mark, your thoughts would be appreciated, if only so I can provide feedback back to my members saying it was considered. Many thanks for all you do, Glenn
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moderated
Re: Formatting doesn't show headings in emails
#bug
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 08:11 PM, David Weintraub wrote:
Under the Message Formatting setting, I have Forced HTML emails checked. Should that be unchecked?That shouldn't matter. Uncheck "Normalize HTML Emails," if you have it checked. Bruce
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moderated
Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options"
#bug
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 05:07 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I would like to get a better idea of how serious this issue is. Which email clients do this?As far as I know, only Thunderbird (TB) is a problem, but they released a patch a few years ago to restore the previous (honor Reply-To) action. The problem is, their original change defaulted to ignore the Reply-To header when there was a List-Post header, a major change from standard practice. Rather than revert that and make a proper fix for the problem they were trying to solve, they released the patch that requires each user to implement it if they want it. This is related to the previous topic https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/7558487 where List-Post was added, removed, and then added back for some circumstances. Unfortunately, I think it's that last addition that is causing a problem for Jim because his users are using the TB standard setup and haven't implemented the setting available in the patch. Duane
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moderated
Re: Formatting doesn't show headings in emails
#bug
It looks like it worked in this group, but not in my other groups. The problem must be a setting I have in my other groups any idea what I should be looking for? Under the Message Formatting setting, I have Forced HTML emails checked. Should that be unchecked?
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moderated
Re: New notifications proposal
#misc
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 03:20 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Please let me know what you think.At a glance, it appears that most of this is geared toward notifications which could be enabled or disabled by each person for the web/app. I think appending a hashtag would be cleaner than inserting some type of information, such as [PendingSub] in the subject line of the notification message (or inserting a line into the message as an explanation.) Thanks, Duane
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moderated
Re: New notifications proposal
#misc
And to add to that (as I've mentioned in the past): If and when possible, tailor each moderator's view of the activity log to match their permissions. (You could further restrict the view to their chosen notifications, but I would stick to limiting it to the permissions. That way they could still view actions in the log that they did not elect to receive notifications for.)
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:26 PM J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote: I personally love the hashtag idea for this (but am not saying that you should not provide the ability for turning them off for people who don't want them). --
J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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moderated
Re: New notifications proposal
#misc
I personally love the hashtag idea for this (but am not saying that you should not provide the ability for turning them off for people who don't want them).
However, I want to push here again to make notification options match permissions, even though it's somewhat of a separate issue. For example, don't provide a #pendingsub notification option to a moderator who does not have permission to approve new members; don't provide a #pendingmessage notification option to a moderator who does not have permission to approve messages; etc. Currently, it looks like I can check those boxes in groups where I am a moderator but have limited permissions, and not those. (Related to this, but not a notification in the strict sense, are owner messages. I can turn those on or off in any group in which I'm a moderator, but I think those should be considered permissions issued by the owner, or by a mod with permission to grant the permissions, with notification options to go along with them - in other words, as a "low-level" mod in any group I can elect to receive or not to receive owner messages, but I think that should be my choice only if I have the corresponding permission.) In general, I want notification options to be limited to permissions. I would also like to see a list of what will constitute a notification. Do you have any handle yet on what will be the complete list of options? Because there have been a lot of new ones requested over a span of years. In addition to files, photos, and database uploads or edits, I would like to have a notification option for the modification of a wiki page, for example. -- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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moderated
Re: New notifications proposal
#misc
Like many, I wasn't enamored with hashtags when I started out using groups.io. They seemed pretty superfluous.
But as I looked into them further, I came to realize that they are a very powerful feature that allows us to customize the behavior of our groups in a manner that cannot be achieved in any other way.
Oh well. I'm running out of steam, and not entirely sure where I was going with this. I guess I'll close with the suggestion that those who are looking for a listserv-type experience could just turn off the calendar, polls, and chats. Regards, Bruce
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moderated
Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options"
#bug
On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Avera <jim.avera@...> wrote:
I would like to get a better idea of how serious this issue is. Which email clients do this? Thanks, Mark
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moderated
Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options"
#bug
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 07:40 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
If your members are doing something 'wrong' out of habit, isn't a bit of education required?Sigh. Trying to improve everyone else's habits is a fool's errand, and rarely worth the social cost. GIO's "Remove other Reply Options" would obviate the issue, but doesn't work because hidden headers make MUAs put those undesired reply options back in. This is a software problem which can be fixed; fixing people is much harder.
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moderated
Google Drive Integration
#bug
Kevin Utzy
One of the features I had planned on using when using Groups.io was the Google Drive integration. This would allow us to integrate the files we have on our Website with Groups.io. However there is a noticed that there was a message referring to the fact that Google had changed their API. I asked the managers forum and was informed that has been down for about a year. Obviously I was very disappointed and I don't want to take back to our membership.If they changed their API, though not technical in this area, but I know should be something that could be fixed.
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moderated
Re: New notifications proposal
#misc
Glenn Glazer
On 5/18/2020 13:42, Mark Fletcher
wrote:
Understood, but if there are plans, please count this as another vote for turning off hashtags. Best, Glenn --
PG&E Delenda Est
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