Date   

moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

Alexis
 

Thanks for the info Derek,

I am confused when you say "it is breaking the SMTP connection without sending any message back"

Emails are sent to a recipient without any form of response being required, so unless I have misunderstood what you have said, this makes no sense to me.

As for the possible reasons you have given, very helpful.

The thing is, the script works just fine for all other messages it receives, including messages produced by the same piece of software that the offending 'sender' uses, which in my mind would negate all of those reasons, would it not?

Sorry I have not explained things clearly.

In my group, aircraft logs are posted using a variety of different software.

One of the members of that group is an email address that I have 'attached' a script to. A script, that when it receives any emails, it extracts the data contained and puts it into a database.

No message is automatically sent back, although a sender does have the option to receive one if they so wish. In this case they do not wish it.

I have put some error trapping into my script, by sending myself a copy of the message as soon as it receives it. I receive copies of all messages sent, EXCEPT the one that bounces, which in my mind implies that the message is not being received by my mail server, which makes sense if that message is bouncing.

Hope that clears things up and sorry for the confusion

Alexis

On 23/05/2021 11:55, Derek Milliner wrote:
Alexis,
First instinct is that the recipient machine running the script is throwing an error and breaking the SMTP connection without sending any message back to the sender; this might explain why the only entry in the 'Reason' is that HTML comment ((<!-- ). Various reasons for this, including:
* Mail handler doesn't have permission to run the script
* Mail handler doesn't have permission to read the script
* Component required to run the script isn't present, is broken or has incorrect permissions/privileges (possibly due to being updated)
* Non-printing character embedded in script, often due to cut & paste between dissimilar OSes (e.g. Windows -> Linux) causing a syntax error
There may be others of course, but without knowing the setup it's speculation right now. I presume from the way you describe the process that you have a script that generates a message which is posted to the group, the message then being delivered to members and processed by the second script. It's highly unlikely to be a problem at the Groups.io send given that only this one account has the issue.
I would try manually connecting to the recipient's mail server and emulating the delivery process with SMTP commands (EHLO, RCPT TO, MAIL FROM, DATA etc.); this would at least indicate whether it's possible to make a successful delivery (get an SMTP '250' code back). If you have a sample message it can be pasted in after the DATA command to try & generate an expected reply.
If the manual process doesn't work either, then it's a question of the user checking their system & logs to try and nail down the cause of the problem.


moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

Alexis
 

Hi Mark,

that is the only reason given

The group is
https://mode-s.groups.io/g/mode-s-logs

or specifically it is a sub group of
https://mode-s.groups.io/g/mode-s

the email address of the account that keeps bouncing is:
sbs1@antonakis.co.uk


The ONLY message that causes this problem is from:
Tony Scott Warren

and the emails all have the subject line of :
PlanePlotter Log from Howden, East Yorkshire 23/05/2021
(Where the date changes)

There are also messages produced by the same piece of software which do not bounce, and a couple of examples are those with subject lines starting with:
PlanePlotter Log from East Devon
&
PlanePlotter Log from Macapá, AP - Brazil

I cannot remember exactly when the bouncing issue started, but it was about 6 months ago, for the 1-2 years we have been using your service prior to that, everything was just fine.

If you need any more info please just ask as this really is frustrating me.

Cheers
Alexis

On 24/05/2021 11:07, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 9:07 AM Alexis <yahoo@antonakis.co.uk> wrote:

Hi,

For about 6 months now I have been having an extremely annoying issue with
messages being bounced from one individual

The reason given is:

<!--

That is it!

I need more information in order to investigate this. Is this the reason
given in the Email Delivery History for this individual? What is their
email address? And what is the name of the group.
Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 11:00 PM, Andy wrote:
I think it is more correct to say that everyone who is passionate about this idea thinks it is a good one.

Personally, I don't see a good reason for this.
I don't see a good reason for this either and the last thing I want is unnecessary messages going to members just to tell them that a topic is locked.  I would object to any automatic sending of messages for this purpose and if there's an option when locking a topic, I certainly wouldn't use it and would not want it set by default.

Andy


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Andy
 


It seems to me that everyone agrees that the general idea is a good one. ...
I think it is more correct to say that everyone who is passionate about this idea thinks it is a good one.

Personally, I don't see a good reason for this.  But I understand what you're all saying about it.

Andy


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

It seems to me that everyone agrees that the general idea is a good one. Perhaps we should leave the bikeshedding to Mark.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Mon, 24 May 2021 11:21:12 -0700, "J_Catlady"
<j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't care about the additional confirmation and think it just slows things down. We don't have it now and we don't really need it. You could simply add the "notify members" box. No group setting or option.
I don't see a need for confirmation since the moderator is taking
deliberate action to lock the topic and if the option exists to notify
the group and the mod wants to do that, it would also be taking
deliberate action to do that.

Adding confirmations just adds to the complexity of the operation. If
you don't want to lock the topic, don't start the process. If you
don't want to announce the locking, don't tick the box or click the
button (or whatever would be there to enable that option).

If you made a mistake in locking the topic, it can be undone. If you
did so and announced it, then had second thoughts, you could undo it
and send another announcement.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:57:32 -0700, "J_Catlady"
<j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't see that working well.
Having it as an option when locking the topic would probably be the
simplest approach. If you didn't want to announce the locking of the
topic, you just wouldn't check the box or click the button or however
it would be set up.

I am fine with it being simple as it's less confusing that way, and
the option is always there, just not forced upon everyone to use.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


moderated Re: Non Daily Digests #bug

 

On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 9:08 AM Tommy Meehan <tmeehan0421@...> wrote:

Starting last month my owner's account began occasionally receiving daily digests on a less than daily basis while my member's account continued to receive them daily. (My owner's account is linked to Gmail, the member account to AOL.) This happened four or five times in mid-April. This past week it began happening again. My owner's account received no daily digest on the 19th and 20th though my member account did. The owner account received a digest on the 21st which began with messages that had been posted on the 18th. After receiving a digest on the 21st, I did not receive a digest to the owner account on the 22nd. I received a digest this morning (the 23rd) with messages beginning from the 21st. The member account got them both days.

A change I made last month to support unread message tracking in the app created a bug where sometimes digests would not be 'forced' when they should have been. This meant that sometimes you wouldn't receive a digest at the time of the day you'd expect one. No digest messages were lost, just some were delayed. 

I've fixed the bug.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

I don't know what you're "meh" ing because the addition of the "notify members" box is exactly my suggestion. I don't care about the additional confirmation and think it just slows things down. We don't have it now and we don't really need it. You could simply add the "notify members" box. No group setting or option.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

KWKloeber
 

It would seem that locking a Thread (ooops, Topic) a simple dialog “Do you really want to lock this?” with a checkbox “Notify members” (same as when saving an edited Wiki page) would suffice and not impose more unnecessary rules and options and exceptions to wade through and complicate the admin menus. 

Meh, too 
Ken K

Sent from my phone


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 09:40 AM, Donald Hellen wrote:
I agree about optional per group, I'm more meh about optional per topic. Best, Glenn On 05/24/2021 08:29, J_Catlady wrote:
It could be both.
I don't see that working well.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

 

On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 9:07 AM Alexis <yahoo@...> wrote:
Hi,

For about 6 months now I have been having an extremely annoying issue with messages being bounced from one individual

The reason given is:

<!--

That is it!

I need more information in order to investigate this. Is this the reason given in the Email Delivery History for this individual? What is their email address? And what is the name of the group.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

It could be alongside or indented under “lock topic” on a per-topic basis: “notify group”

On May 24, 2021, at 9:40 AM, Donald Hellen <donhellen@roadrunner.com> wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2021 08:39:13 -0700, "Glenn Glazer"
<glenn.glazer@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree about optional per group, I'm more meh about optional per topic. Best, Glenn On 05/24/2021 08:29, J_Catlady wrote:
It could be both.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main




--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Mon, 24 May 2021 08:39:13 -0700, "Glenn Glazer"
<glenn.glazer@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree about optional per group, I'm more meh about optional per topic. Best, Glenn On 05/24/2021 08:29, J_Catlady wrote:
It could be both.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Mon, 24 May 2021 07:56:27 -0700, "J_Catlady"
<j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Or, put it on moderation and then hurry to make the annoucement before having to deal with attempted posts, and THEN lock it. This is currently a PITA.
This is what I do also, and it's not convenient. I'd like something
automatic instead. It just makes sense.

But make it an option because for sure there will be some group owners
who won't need or want it. Some groups work a bit differently than the
run of the mill groups most of us operate, and I wouldn't want to
force this on those groups. Opt-in or opt-out would be OK with me, but
for existing groups make it so they're not automatically switched to
this.

Donald




----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

Right. I think that in any case, groups with auto-lock should disallow the notice (if made optional per group), because new grouo owners may not realize the ramifications of setting both. And if not made optional per group, the notices should not be sent for auto-locked topics at all.

And although this is veering somewhat OT, allowing mods to post to locked topics would would greatly alleviate this problem. You could lock a topic and afterwards, send the announcement by hand. There would be no problems with locking old topics or with repeated announcements for unlocked, posted-to, and relooked topics.


On May 24, 2021, at 9:25 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


On 05/24/2021 08:44, J_Catlady wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:39 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I'm more meh about optional per topic
Do you ever lock very old topics, or is your group set to do that automatically? If you do that by hand, think about whether you really want everybody to receive an email for the locking of some very old topic. Also, I will sometimes lock a topic, then unlock it to post something in it, then lock it again. (This would be unnecessary if mods were allowed to post to locked topics, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.) In that case, if you ever do that (or if mods of other groups ever do that), is it really desirable to have the multiple locking-announcement emails sent to everyone? I think not. I would not use the feature unless it's made optional per topic, so for me, it would be useless otherwise.

No, I never do those things which is part of why I'm meh: it seems like overengineering an edge case. As is usual in these discussions it's not clear to anyone (except Mark) how many groups actually exercise a particular functionality, so it's hard to say whether more groups are like yours (and need that) or like mine (and find it an unnecessary complication).

To be clear, I'm not opposed to what you suggest, I just don't have a need for it.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 05/24/2021 08:44, J_Catlady wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:39 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I'm more meh about optional per topic
Do you ever lock very old topics, or is your group set to do that automatically? If you do that by hand, think about whether you really want everybody to receive an email for the locking of some very old topic. Also, I will sometimes lock a topic, then unlock it to post something in it, then lock it again. (This would be unnecessary if mods were allowed to post to locked topics, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.) In that case, if you ever do that (or if mods of other groups ever do that), is it really desirable to have the multiple locking-announcement emails sent to everyone? I think not. I would not use the feature unless it's made optional per topic, so for me, it would be useless otherwise.

No, I never do those things which is part of why I'm meh: it seems like overengineering an edge case. As is usual in these discussions it's not clear to anyone (except Mark) how many groups actually exercise a particular functionality, so it's hard to say whether more groups are like yours (and need that) or like mine (and find it an unnecessary complication).

To be clear, I'm not opposed to what you suggest, I just don't have a need for it.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:39 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I'm more meh about optional per topic
Do you ever lock very old topics, or is your group set to do that automatically? If you do that by hand, think about whether you really want everybody to receive an email for the locking of some very old topic. Also, I will sometimes lock a topic, then unlock it to post something in it, then lock it again. (This would be unnecessary if mods were allowed to post to locked topics, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.) In that case, if you ever do that (or if mods of other groups ever do that), is it really desirable to have the multiple locking-announcement emails sent to everyone? I think not. I would not use the feature unless it's made optional per topic, so for me, it would be useless otherwise.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

I agree about optional per group, I'm more meh about optional per topic.

Best,

Glenn

On 05/24/2021 08:29, J_Catlady wrote:
It should actually be optional per topic, I think. I sometimes want to lock ancient topics and not announce it to the group. In fact, thinking more and more about this, I would actually use it only if it's optional per topic.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

It should actually be optional per topic, I think. I sometimes want to lock ancient topics and not announce it to the group. In fact, thinking more and more about this, I would actually use it only if it's optional per topic.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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