Date   

locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

It could be alongside or indented under “lock topic” on a per-topic basis: “notify group”

On May 24, 2021, at 9:40 AM, Donald Hellen <donhellen@roadrunner.com> wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2021 08:39:13 -0700, "Glenn Glazer"
<glenn.glazer@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree about optional per group, I'm more meh about optional per topic. Best, Glenn On 05/24/2021 08:29, J_Catlady wrote:
It could be both.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main




--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Mon, 24 May 2021 08:39:13 -0700, "Glenn Glazer"
<glenn.glazer@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree about optional per group, I'm more meh about optional per topic. Best, Glenn On 05/24/2021 08:29, J_Catlady wrote:
It could be both.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Mon, 24 May 2021 07:56:27 -0700, "J_Catlady"
<j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Or, put it on moderation and then hurry to make the annoucement before having to deal with attempted posts, and THEN lock it. This is currently a PITA.
This is what I do also, and it's not convenient. I'd like something
automatic instead. It just makes sense.

But make it an option because for sure there will be some group owners
who won't need or want it. Some groups work a bit differently than the
run of the mill groups most of us operate, and I wouldn't want to
force this on those groups. Opt-in or opt-out would be OK with me, but
for existing groups make it so they're not automatically switched to
this.

Donald




----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

Right. I think that in any case, groups with auto-lock should disallow the notice (if made optional per group), because new grouo owners may not realize the ramifications of setting both. And if not made optional per group, the notices should not be sent for auto-locked topics at all.

And although this is veering somewhat OT, allowing mods to post to locked topics would would greatly alleviate this problem. You could lock a topic and afterwards, send the announcement by hand. There would be no problems with locking old topics or with repeated announcements for unlocked, posted-to, and relooked topics.


On May 24, 2021, at 9:25 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


On 05/24/2021 08:44, J_Catlady wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:39 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I'm more meh about optional per topic
Do you ever lock very old topics, or is your group set to do that automatically? If you do that by hand, think about whether you really want everybody to receive an email for the locking of some very old topic. Also, I will sometimes lock a topic, then unlock it to post something in it, then lock it again. (This would be unnecessary if mods were allowed to post to locked topics, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.) In that case, if you ever do that (or if mods of other groups ever do that), is it really desirable to have the multiple locking-announcement emails sent to everyone? I think not. I would not use the feature unless it's made optional per topic, so for me, it would be useless otherwise.

No, I never do those things which is part of why I'm meh: it seems like overengineering an edge case. As is usual in these discussions it's not clear to anyone (except Mark) how many groups actually exercise a particular functionality, so it's hard to say whether more groups are like yours (and need that) or like mine (and find it an unnecessary complication).

To be clear, I'm not opposed to what you suggest, I just don't have a need for it.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 05/24/2021 08:44, J_Catlady wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:39 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I'm more meh about optional per topic
Do you ever lock very old topics, or is your group set to do that automatically? If you do that by hand, think about whether you really want everybody to receive an email for the locking of some very old topic. Also, I will sometimes lock a topic, then unlock it to post something in it, then lock it again. (This would be unnecessary if mods were allowed to post to locked topics, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.) In that case, if you ever do that (or if mods of other groups ever do that), is it really desirable to have the multiple locking-announcement emails sent to everyone? I think not. I would not use the feature unless it's made optional per topic, so for me, it would be useless otherwise.

No, I never do those things which is part of why I'm meh: it seems like overengineering an edge case. As is usual in these discussions it's not clear to anyone (except Mark) how many groups actually exercise a particular functionality, so it's hard to say whether more groups are like yours (and need that) or like mine (and find it an unnecessary complication).

To be clear, I'm not opposed to what you suggest, I just don't have a need for it.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:39 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I'm more meh about optional per topic
Do you ever lock very old topics, or is your group set to do that automatically? If you do that by hand, think about whether you really want everybody to receive an email for the locking of some very old topic. Also, I will sometimes lock a topic, then unlock it to post something in it, then lock it again. (This would be unnecessary if mods were allowed to post to locked topics, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.) In that case, if you ever do that (or if mods of other groups ever do that), is it really desirable to have the multiple locking-announcement emails sent to everyone? I think not. I would not use the feature unless it's made optional per topic, so for me, it would be useless otherwise.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

I agree about optional per group, I'm more meh about optional per topic.

Best,

Glenn

On 05/24/2021 08:29, J_Catlady wrote:
It should actually be optional per topic, I think. I sometimes want to lock ancient topics and not announce it to the group. In fact, thinking more and more about this, I would actually use it only if it's optional per topic.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

It should actually be optional per topic, I think. I sometimes want to lock ancient topics and not announce it to the group. In fact, thinking more and more about this, I would actually use it only if it's optional per topic.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

Optional makes the most sense.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Duane
 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 09:52 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I would like to suggest that there be a  way to have GIO automatically send a message to the group when the topic is locked.
As long as it's optional per group.

Duane


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

Or, put it on moderation and then hurry to make the annoucement before having to deal with attempted posts, and THEN lock it. This is currently a PITA.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

Yes, please! I have been wanting this, like, forever! I may even have requested it. I've forgotten by this point. I have been doing the announcement by hand, but of course, it's never quite accurate because my *other* request (allowing a mod to post to a locked topic) has never been implemented. So all you can do is announce that this topic "will be locked" and then hurry, hurry, hurry to lock it before anyone tries to post.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

I would like to suggest that there be a  way to have GIO automatically send a message to the group when the topic is locked.

What I would like is a simple note to the group saying thread <subject line> is now locked or something like that.

The use case is that we locked a thread that was getting contentious and someone had composed a long and thoughtful response only to find their effort had been wasted. If they had known of the lock a priori, they wouldn't have invested the time in the response.

Best,

Glenn


moderated Re: Quoting Message Posts in Replies #suggestion

 

Drew,

This would suppress the Quote Message Post button from the composition
window and automatically quote the message being replied to.
Or perhaps convert it into a Remove Quote function, in case you don't want it there.

Only the immediate post would be quoted; not accumulated threads.
That's the real trick.

I believe that it has been suggested long ago in beta, both in terms of the Quote Message Post function and in terms of auto-trimming trailing quotes in posts by email. Many cases can be handled by a few relatively simple heuristics, but ultimately one runs into the rabbit-hole of all the various quoting mark-ups used (or not used) by members' email applications.

I think that rabbit-hole is part of the reason Reply doesn't simply quote the whole message post (absent a selected text), as many email interfaces do, and the Quote Message Post button was the work-around. On the theory that anyone who uses it deliberately would be more likely to trim the result than if it were simply a default action.

My only concern with making it a group option is that it is yet another behavior that could be inconsistent among my group memberships. On the other hand, I'll disqualify myself from that opinion because I rarely post via web. Also, in many groups most of the members are solely members of that group, so it may be that relatively few users would ever notice the inconsistency.

2) An interactive alert ("popup") in the composition window giving the
poster the option to quote the post they are replying to, ...
I'm really not a fan of nagging popups - especially when they force a decision and extra click at that moment. I'd almost rather see Clippy* float over and suggest that you might like to use the Quote Message Post function.

Shal
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Assistant


moderated Re: Non Daily Digests #bug

Duane
 

On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 11:08 AM, Tommy Meehan wrote:
My owner's account received no daily digest on the 19th and 20th though my member account did. The owner account received a digest on the 21st which began with messages that had been posted on the 18th. After receiving a digest on the 21st, I did not receive a digest to the owner account on the 22nd. I received a digest this morning (the 23rd) with messages beginning from the 21st. The member account got them both days.
Please correct me if this is different than the discussion on GMF.  Over there, you stated that you were in fact getting all the messages, just not on the day you were expecting them.

Duane


moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

Derek Milliner
 

Alexis,

First instinct is that the recipient machine running the script is throwing an error and breaking the SMTP connection without sending any message back to the sender; this might explain why the only entry in the 'Reason' is that HTML comment ((<!-- ). Various reasons for this, including:
  • Mail handler doesn't have permission to run the script
  • Mail handler doesn't have permission to read the script
  • Component required to run the script isn't present, is broken or has incorrect permissions/privileges (possibly due to being updated)
  • Non-printing character embedded in script, often due to cut & paste between dissimilar OSes (e.g. Windows -> Linux) causing a syntax error

There may be others of course, but without knowing the setup it's speculation right now. I presume from the way you describe the process that you have a script that generates a message which is posted to the group, the message then being delivered to members and processed by the second script. It's highly unlikely to be a problem at the Groups.io send given that only this one account has the issue.

 

I would try manually connecting to the recipient's mail server and emulating the delivery process with SMTP commands (EHLO, RCPT TO, MAIL FROM, DATA etc.); this would at least indicate whether it's possible to make a successful delivery (get an SMTP '250' code back). If you have a sample message it can be pasted in after the DATA command to try & generate an expected reply.

If the manual process doesn't work either, then it's a question of the user checking their system & logs to try and nail down the cause of the problem. 


moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

Jim Wilson
 

There is not enough information or clarity posted to identify an issue. It sound like you're saying each individual is using a script to generate a message (to the group?) and then you say the script reads the email and processes the contents. This sounds very convoluted and confusing!

That said, the single most common reason for bouncing is spam prevention on the receiving end where there is a perceived issue with the content or the source of the message. That's where you start but, sometimes, little or nothing can be done about it.

If you're including or attaching a script to a message, I would not (and I do not) allow it as an email administrator.

Also, you cannot rule out a script simply because you believe it "has stood the test of time." I would be extremely skeptical of any script written 10 years ago.

I strongly urge you to consider doing – whatever it is you're trying to do – in a way that meets currently-accepted email security and validation practices.

--
Jim


moderated Non Daily Digests #bug

Tommy Meehan
 

I am owner of a group that is affiliated with a small national historical society. It is a 501(c)(3) with over 2,000 members. About 25% belong to our message board on Groups.io. I have two memberships in the group, my owner's membership and a regular member's account. Both are subscribed to a full feature digest, are located in the Eastern time zone and I am not following or muting any topics in either account.

Starting last month my owner's account began occasionally receiving daily digests on a less than daily basis while my member's account continued to receive them daily. (My owner's account is linked to Gmail, the member account to AOL.) This happened four or five times in mid-April. This past week it began happening again. My owner's account received no daily digest on the 19th and 20th though my member account did. The owner account received a digest on the 21st which began with messages that had been posted on the 18th. After receiving a digest on the 21st, I did not receive a digest to the owner account on the 22nd. I received a digest this morning (the 23rd) with messages beginning from the 21st. The member account got them both days.

I'm wondering why this is happening? On GMF it was explained if a particular email address is way down the list for digest delivery, there may be no digest generated on certain days. We joined Groups.io in January 2018 and this never happened -- the digest failing to appear on a daily basis -- until April 2021. Is this a bug or just something we should expect to happen occasionally?

tommy meehan


moderated Unknown bounce issue #bug

Alexis
 

Hi,

For about 6 months now I have been having an extremely annoying issue with messages being bounced from one individual

The reason given is:

<!--

That is it!

Basically the message sent to the affected email address is created by an automated script. Emails from other people using the same script get delivered just fine.
The email address it goes to has a script attached to it. This script reads the email contents and processes it. No reply is given. Again, all other messages sent to it are totally unaffected.

The processing script was written about 10 years ago and has stood the test of time and works just fine, with this one exception.
If only I knew the reason for the bounce, then I can at least contact my email host, but without that, I am stuck. And obviously every few days the account gets flagged as bouncing.

Oh yes, I do notice that the bounce notification is always for a message 2 days prior to the date of the bounce notification, if that makes a difference.

I am pulling my hair out here, as this one issue is stopping the auto processing of all other messages.

Any help would be most appreciated

Cheers
Alexis


moderated Re: Quoting Message Posts in Replies #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 05:28 PM, Donald Hellen wrote:
I'm in favor of this second option but not the one that automatically
quotes messages.
From my perspective I'm not happy about either; it is a case of be careful what you wish for, just in case you get it.

"Overquoting" is a perpetual problem, with (on occasions) a new message being accompanied by goodness knows how many previous posts, each of which includes the post(s) that preceded it.

Far better to educate & encourage group members in the art of selective quoting so that only sufficient prior material to provide essential context for a reply is included.

Why implement a system that (as described) would almost certainly result in overquoting?

Chris

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