Date   

locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Lynne
 

"It's not necessary to understand why. If something gets suggested here, Mark has stated many times not to argue against it. It's his decision....  So nothing to stress out abouit or argue against. "

I wasn't  arguing at all, for or against.  As stated, I was just trying to understand why the proposal was a better option than what exists.  Thanks to those who took the time to explain.

Lynne


moderated Re: Apostrophes in event names being translated on calendar messages and moderator notifications #bug #fixed

 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 4:05 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 06:40 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This should be fixed now.
Hi Mark,

I'm still seeing the bug in browser notifications:


Ok, these should be fixed now as well.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

Alexis
 

You're a star Mark, just the info I need, thanks very much

On 25/05/2021 09:48, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Alexis,
This is full bounce message:
<!--
//usr/bin/php
/// line 567 in acarsfunctions.inc
///airnav problem
#!/usr/local/bin/php
/SBS codeing
1
if (ereg('^([0-9A-H]{6})',$message[$i]) and $start==0)
if (substr($fltno,3,4)!="0000" and !ereggasp
g("[@]",$fltno))
$message[$i]=preg_replace("/\(.*?.\)/", "", $message[$i]);
/echo $i." ".$message[$i]."<br>";
echo "|".$day."-".$month."-".$year."|<br>";
echo "|".$start." ".$stop."|<br>";
echo "0:".$split[0]." 1:".$split[1]." 2:".$split[2]." 3:".$split[3]."
4:".$split[4]." 5:".$split[5]." 6:".$split[6]."<br>";
echo $sbs."=".$reg." - ".$fltno." - ".$time." - ".$date."<br>";
/echo $date." ".$day." ".$month." ".$year." ".$time."<br>";
$data1.=process($fltno,$reg,$date,$time,$source,$conn,$message,$i,$sbs);
echo "0:".$datetmp[0]." 1:".$datetmp[1]." 2:".$datetmp[2]."
3:".$datetmp[3]." 4:".$datetmp[4]." 5:".$datetmp[5]."
6:".$datetmp[6]."<br>";
/-->
///Fatal error: Cannot break/continue 1 level in
/home/alexis/public_html/cyoaw/includes/emailsbsreport.php on line 651
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.
I've also fixed the bounce processing system to more correctly parse this.
Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

 

Alexis,

This is full bounce message:

<!--
//usr/bin/php
/// line 567 in acarsfunctions.inc
///airnav problem
#!/usr/local/bin/php
/SBS codeing
1
if (ereg('^([0-9A-H]{6})',$message[$i]) and $start==0)
if (substr($fltno,3,4)!="0000" and !ereggasp
g("[@]",$fltno))


$message[$i]=preg_replace("/\(.*?.\)/", "", $message[$i]);
/echo $i." ".$message[$i]."<br>";
echo "|".$day."-".$month."-".$year."|<br>";
echo "|".$start." ".$stop."|<br>";
echo "0:".$split[0]." 1:".$split[1]." 2:".$split[2]." 3:".$split[3]." 4:".$split[4]." 5:".$split[5]." 6:".$split[6]."<br>";
echo $sbs."=".$reg." - ".$fltno." - ".$time." - ".$date."<br>";
/echo $date." ".$day." ".$month." ".$year." ".$time."<br>";
$data1.=process($fltno,$reg,$date,$time,$source,$conn,$message,$i,$sbs);
echo "0:".$datetmp[0]." 1:".$datetmp[1]." 2:".$datetmp[2]." 3:".$datetmp[3]." 4:".$datetmp[4]." 5:".$datetmp[5]." 6:".$datetmp[6]."<br>";
/-->
///Fatal error: Cannot break/continue 1 level in /home/alexis/public_html/cyoaw/includes/emailsbsreport.php on line 651
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

I've also fixed the bounce processing system to more correctly parse this.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 07:35 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I get accused of "censoring" some people
That's another point. A system-generated "this topic is locked" message, although obviously originating from a person, is less personal, and takes a bit of the edge off the accusatory tone, of "I'm locking this topic."
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 05/25/2021 07:56, Donald Hellen wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 06:45:20 -0700, "J_Catlady"
<j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

But for argument's sake, several people here, including me have mentioned that moderating, announcing, and then locking is inconvenient. 
Agreed.

Having a one or two step method of locking and announcing the lock
would be convenient for some groups, especially where there's a lot of
activity in a group, even if it's used only on rare occasions. 

The idea is to make it easier to manage groups, and if this isn't
needed in anyone's particular group, they don't have to use the
feature. It will no doubt be an opt-in feature that would require
checking a box or clicking a button, and not doing those things would
not trigger the announcement. 

I manage close to 30 groups, most of them related to amateur radio,
and anything that makes things easier is desirable. I am adding
moderators and co-owners as they grow but this would also make it
easier for those other administrators of the groups I founded. 

Donald

Yes, this was all I had in mind when I suggested this. I think the next time I suggest something here I will remember to very explicit about opt-in.

Best,

Glenn
P.S. My partner is a ham, she's studying for her general right now.

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Tue, 25 May 2021 06:45:20 -0700, "J_Catlady"
<j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

But for argument's sake, several people here, including me have mentioned that moderating, announcing, and then locking is inconvenient.
Agreed.

Having a one or two step method of locking and announcing the lock
would be convenient for some groups, especially where there's a lot of
activity in a group, even if it's used only on rare occasions.

The idea is to make it easier to manage groups, and if this isn't
needed in anyone's particular group, they don't have to use the
feature. It will no doubt be an opt-in feature that would require
checking a box or clicking a button, and not doing those things would
not trigger the announcement.

I manage close to 30 groups, most of them related to amateur radio,
and anything that makes things easier is desirable. I am adding
moderators and co-owners as they grow but this would also make it
easier for those other administrators of the groups I founded.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 05/25/2021 06:45, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 06:41 AM, Lynne wrote:
hard time understanding why the proposed suggestion is better than the tools we already have
It's not necessary to understand why. If something gets suggested here, Mark has stated many times not to argue against it. It's his decision. And if it gets implemented and you don't need it, don't use it. It's pretty clear that one way or the other - whether it's per group or per topic - it's going to be optional. So nothing to stress out abouit or argue against. But for argument's sake, several people here, including me have mentioned that moderating, announcing, and then locking is inconvenient.

Yes, precisely, thank you.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

All of this makes sense to me.

Best,

Glenn

On 05/25/2021 05:25, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I'm still not clear on whether this would be implemented as a member notification or an actual post to the group. The former may be more desirable so that individual members can opt out of receiving them.

There are a number of group and hashtag settings that automatically lock topics. Generating a proliferation of notifications/messages due to this could be undesirable. Anything sent should be in response to the manual locking of a topic by a Moderator. For this reason a checkbox option in some kind of new Lock Topic dialog makes sense to me.

I'll let others hash out any further details of this feature.

Regards,
Bruce


--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 05/25/2021 05:30, Chris Jones via groups.io wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 03:52 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
The use case is that we locked a thread that was getting contentious and someone had composed a long and thoughtful response only to find their effort had been wasted. If they had known of the lock a priori, they wouldn't have invested the time in the response.
I am not going to argue against your suggestion of an optional notification that a topic has been locked, but I will point out that doing so does not guarantee that no - one will find out just too late that a topic to which they were composing a message has been locked.

In the cited case of a topic that was becoming contentious would it not be better to Moderate Topic from the More menu? That provides a means of stopping contentious posts appearing without stopping the acceptable ones. It also requires no change to existing group capabilities.

Chris

That might work for some, but then what happens in our case is that then I get accused of "censoring" some people and not others. If everyone gets kicked out of the pool, it is at least "fair".

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 05/25/2021 01:50, Andy Wedge wrote:
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:23 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Just because it doesn't match your particular preferences or use cases doesn't invalidate the preferences and use cases of others.
I didn't say it did. It was your original post that mentioned automatically doing this. If there's any option to do this, it should be opt-in not opt-out.

Andy

Oh, I see your interpretation, that isn't what I had in mind. I thought the opt-in was implied. We are in agreement.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 06:41 AM, Lynne wrote:
hard time understanding why the proposed suggestion is better than the tools we already have
It's not necessary to understand why. If something gets suggested here, Mark has stated many times not to argue against it. It's his decision. And if it gets implemented and you don't need it, don't use it. It's pretty clear that one way or the other - whether it's per group or per topic - it's going to be optional. So nothing to stress out abouit or argue against. But for argument's sake, several people here, including me have mentioned that moderating, announcing, and then locking is inconvenient.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Lynne
 

I'm having a hard time understanding why the proposed suggestion is better than the tools we already have.  Putting the topic on moderation, sending  a message to the group that the topic is locked (and why), approving my admin message, and then locking the topic seems easy enough.

Lynne


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 05:30 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
doing so does not guarantee
Ah, here we go again! No, it does not guarantee anything. But it will help. (And it won't cure cancer, either. :)

would it not be better to Moderate Topic
Sometimes, you need - or, hey! even just want - to lock a topic.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

 

It needs to be a post to the group. Most people have their notifications off, especially the people most likely to use email, which is where the problem lies. 


On May 25, 2021, at 5:25 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

I'm still not clear on whether this would be implemented as a member notification or an actual post to the group. The former may be more desirable so that individual members can opt out of receiving them.

There are a number of group and hashtag settings that automatically lock topics. Generating a proliferation of notifications/messages due to this could be undesirable. Anything sent should be in response to the manual locking of a topic by a Moderator. For this reason a checkbox option in some kind of new Lock Topic dialog makes sense to me.

I'll let others hash out any further details of this feature.

Regards,
Bruce

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 03:52 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
The use case is that we locked a thread that was getting contentious and someone had composed a long and thoughtful response only to find their effort had been wasted. If they had known of the lock a priori, they wouldn't have invested the time in the response.
I am not going to argue against your suggestion of an optional notification that a topic has been locked, but I will point out that doing so does not guarantee that no - one will find out just too late that a topic to which they were composing a message has been locked.

In the cited case of a topic that was becoming contentious would it not be better to Moderate Topic from the More menu? That provides a means of stopping contentious posts appearing without stopping the acceptable ones. It also requires no change to existing group capabilities.

Chris


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

I'm still not clear on whether this would be implemented as a member notification or an actual post to the group. The former may be more desirable so that individual members can opt out of receiving them.

There are a number of group and hashtag settings that automatically lock topics. Generating a proliferation of notifications/messages due to this could be undesirable. Anything sent should be in response to the manual locking of a topic by a Moderator. For this reason a checkbox option in some kind of new Lock Topic dialog makes sense to me.

I'll let others hash out any further details of this feature.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Apostrophes in event names being translated on calendar messages and moderator notifications #bug #fixed

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 06:40 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This should be fixed now.
Hi Mark,

I'm still seeing the bug in browser notifications:



Regards
Andy


locked Re: announce on topic lock #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:23 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Just because it doesn't match your particular preferences or use cases doesn't invalidate the preferences and use cases of others.
I didn't say it did. It was your original post that mentioned automatically doing this. If there's any option to do this, it should be opt-in not opt-out.

Andy


moderated Re: Unknown bounce issue #bug

Derek Milliner
 

Alexis,

I made a broad and possibly invalid assumption that your incoming mail is handled by your own mail server (e.g. postfix, sendmail etc.) and that how your script is called by the mail server. If this is not the case then my references to the SMTP dialogue don't apply. If it is your own mail server, then the key debug info will be in the mail server logs.

If you haven't already done so I'd add a debug line in your script that simply writes to a local file when it's called just in case there's something in the message which also causes the copy to you to fail. Belt 'n' braces.

If the message isn't even getting as far as calling your script and it's not your own mail server then you'd need to work with the provider to get log details on what's happening with that specific source. It may be of course that they changed something about 6 months ago. Mark may be able to use the info you've provided to shed a little more light from the GIO end.

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