Date   

moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 12:10 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
That's why I listed the changes in terms of what was being removed, not what was staying. All message/topic editing stuff will still exist. All subscription options will still exist. All archive viewing pages will still exist.
Ok, it's clear now. But a description of what was staying as "mailing list features only" would not normally include a message archive (let alone one loaded with incredible features;), so at that point the list of what was being removed left me confused and seeking a better description.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:55 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:46 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.
That's an improvement. But I think the list is still not complete. What about message and topic editing features, including editing, merge, split, moderate, lock, etc.?


That's why I listed the changes in terms of what was being removed, not what was staying. All message/topic editing stuff will still exist. All subscription options will still exist. All archive viewing pages will still exist.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

That much the better for groups.io.


On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:

Mark,

 

Yahoo also killed moderation and daily digests. So your only option if someone posts in-appropriately is to expel them from the group.

Pretty much useless…

 

Dave

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 12 August 2020 18:46
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Changes to new basic groups #updates

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:29 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

Hmm, I didn't realize Yahoo killed the archive as well.

 

Maybe this is a better description; as I just posted in another topic:

 

All the existing moderation functions will be enabled. All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.  All the existing hashtag features will be enabled.

 

If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off. (You will still be able to set the max size of photos in emails.)

 

Hope this helps.

Mark

 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Dave Wade
 

Mark,

 

Yahoo also killed moderation and daily digests. So your only option if someone posts in-appropriately is to expel them from the group.

Pretty much useless…

 

Dave

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 12 August 2020 18:46
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Changes to new basic groups #updates

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:29 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

Hmm, I didn't realize Yahoo killed the archive as well.

 

Maybe this is a better description; as I just posted in another topic:

 

All the existing moderation functions will be enabled. All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.  All the existing hashtag features will be enabled.

 

If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off. (You will still be able to set the max size of photos in emails.)

 

Hope this helps.

Mark

 


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

txercoupemuseum.org
 

This is not unusual in groups that have functioned for decades with free membership, and I’m not sure these good people should be described so derisively..  

Of more than a thousand members, I believe 21 or so contributed an average oof $20 for our original “premium year” before I cut off donations.  That’s not tp say there would not have been more.

WRB

— 

On Aug 12, 2020, at 1:35 PM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 06:11 PM, RCardona wrote:
Only about 10% of our membership made a donation, but sufficient funds were raised to fund the membership group for 2+ years.
And therein lies the problem. On your own admission you have 90% freeloaders.

Chris


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

RCardona
 

Non-donators contribute to our genealogy site in a variety of others ways by way of sharing information and research.  Money is NOT the only manner in which one can contribute to a group.  You should have more faith in your members to support your group through donations.   If you have a valued group, I'm willing to bet more than enough donations would come in to support whatever membership level you may require for your group.   There are a variety of tools available to make this happen for any group.

That is how most non-profits work as well. . . those who believe in the mission and are able, support the financial part of a group.  And many more benefit from it irrespective of financial contribution.  

Robert

On 8/12/20 2:35 PM, Chris Jones via groups.io wrote:
On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 06:11 PM, RCardona wrote:
Only about 10% of our membership made a donation, but sufficient funds were raised to fund the membership group for 2+ years.
And therein lies the problem. On your own admission you have 90% freeloaders.

Chris


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Paul Fox
 

chris jones via groups.io wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 06:11 PM, RCardona wrote:
> >
> > Only about 10% of our membership made a donation, but sufficient funds
> > were raised to fund the membership group for 2+ years.
>
> And therein lies the problem. On your own admission you have 90%
> freeloaders.

Therein lies what problem? Actually, I read that as "members saw so
much value that we cut off the fundraising when we realized we were
way past our current needs". That's definitely what would happen
in any of my groups.

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 85.3 degrees)


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 06:11 PM, RCardona wrote:
Only about 10% of our membership made a donation, but sufficient funds were raised to fund the membership group for 2+ years.
And therein lies the problem. On your own admission you have 90% freeloaders.

Chris


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:46 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.
That's an improvement. But I think the list is still not complete. What about message and topic editing features, including editing, merge, split, moderate, lock, etc.?

I think at some point it will be necessary to list all features explicitly and have one of those column checkbox tables where you put a check in the box or not for each feature, for each kind of plan. It may be ok to tell *us* that "If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off" but clearly, that won't be sufficient for marketing and is evidently confusing even us old-timers. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Thread reference when muting topics #bug

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 9:25 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

on the confirmation page when muting a topic, there is another reference to 'thread'.

This should be fixed now.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Pagination in file search is broken #bug

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:04 AM Tobias V. Langhoff <tobias.v.langhoff@...> wrote:
When listing files in a group that has more files than fit on one page, buttons to the other pages are displayed at the bottom of the page. \
However, these buttons lead to a 404 page.

The reason is that they link to https://groups.io/g/<group>/filesearch instead of the correct https://groups.io/g/<group>/filessearch (note the double s).
_
Thanks for the bug report. It has been fixed.

Mark 


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:29 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

Hmm, I didn't realize Yahoo killed the archive as well.

Maybe this is a better description; as I just posted in another topic:

All the existing moderation functions will be enabled. All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.  All the existing hashtag features will be enabled.

If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off. (You will still be able to set the max size of photos in emails.)

Hope this helps.
Mark
 


moderated Re: Please clarify the functions of the new Basic groups (post 24 August 2020) #suggestion

 

Hi Bob,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:35 AM Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

Will the New Basic group be a Mailing list  with the same online posting, reading, searching, etc of the messages and the current Basic group?


Yes, that is correct. All the existing moderation functions will be enabled. All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.  All the existing hashtag features will be enabled.

If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off. (You will still be able to set the max size of photos in emails.)


Hope this helps.
Mark


moderated Please clarify the functions of the new Basic groups (post 24 August 2020) #suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

Mark,
Will the New Basic group be a Mailing list  with the same online posting, reading, searching, etc of the messages and the current Basic group?

A
--

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

I think instead of describing the new basic groups as "limited to mailing list features only," it would be helpful to list exactly what is meant by "mailing list features." The description doesn't cover all features as included or not included. That would help.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Duane
 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 11:55 AM, Dave Sergeant wrote:
when the rest of your groups hear
about them I doubt they will be happy.
I don't understand why that would be.  Nothing will change on their groups.  A lot of people seem to be skipping over that part.  See https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25916.

In rereading Mark's original message, I don't see anything in there about the price going up for paid groups either.  Hey, if enough groups go premium, it could even go down! ;>)

Duane


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Paul Fox
 

dave wrote:
> ...no mechanism for organising payments and no membership fee at
> all...

Likewise, I'm a member of 4 or 5 groups, none of which are "formal"
clubs, and have no associated dues or payments. All of them are Basic
groups, and are perfectly happy with the services that gives. None of
them use the calendar or the wiki or the database -- just messages, and
modest use of photos, and files, so upgrading to Premium makes no
sense, even if folks might be willing to pay "something".

It's not like these groups don't appreciate that they're getting
something for nothing. I've actually gotten the sense that many
people would be more than happy to help defray Mark's costs, but the
fact is there's no easy way (that I know of) for individuals to make
donations to groups.io itself. Right now someone has to take on the
bill-paying role, and arrange to be reimbursed by the group members.

I think a mechanism that allowed direct "many-to-Mark" payments would
a) encourage voluntary donations, from folks using Basic services, and
b) make the leap from Basic to Premium a lot less daunting for groups
that could make use of the added services, but whose owner(s) might
not want to deal with the fund-raising aspects.

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 86.4 degrees)


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

RCardona
 

As dual-owner of a premium group of about 250 members, we did a donation drive via PayPal and Stripe.  Only about 10% of our membership made a donation, but sufficient funds were raised to fund the membership group for 2+ years.  International funds were consolidated into a single currency, no problem.  We appointed a treasurer who will be paying the annual fee from the monies raised.   Many tools out there to collect monies for groups.

Robert

On 8/12/20 12:57 PM, Chris Jones via groups.io wrote:
On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 05:23 PM, Robin Whittle wrote:
USD$220 a year is about Australian $1 a day - and its worth it to know I have a good, ad-free, long-term reliable system for running what is always going to be quite a time-consuming project. 
Yeah, right. And how do you propose that a group with nearly 2000 members spread throughout the world (but mainly in the UK) should collect that money? Or are you assuming that the Owners/Moderators will simply pay it themselves?

I fully understand the reasoning that has lead to these changes, but I wish that people would put a bit more thought into the practicalities of collecting the money required should it become necessary to pay for a "legacy basic" group. In some cases I daresay it would be fairly easy; in others more or less impossible.

Be careful what you wish for...

Chris


moderated Pagination in file search is broken #bug

Tobias V. Langhoff
 

When listing files in a group that has more files than fit on one page, buttons to the other pages are displayed at the bottom of the page. 
However, these buttons lead to a 404 page.

The reason is that they link to https://groups.io/g/<group>/filesearch instead of the correct https://groups.io/g/<group>/filessearch (note the double s).


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 05:23 PM, Robin Whittle wrote:
USD$220 a year is about Australian $1 a day - and its worth it to know I have a good, ad-free, long-term reliable system for running what is always going to be quite a time-consuming project. 
Yeah, right. And how do you propose that a group with nearly 2000 members spread throughout the world (but mainly in the UK) should collect that money? Or are you assuming that the Owners/Moderators will simply pay it themselves?

I fully understand the reasoning that has lead to these changes, but I wish that people would put a bit more thought into the practicalities of collecting the money required should it become necessary to pay for a "legacy basic" group. In some cases I daresay it would be fairly easy; in others more or less impossible.

Be careful what you wish for...

Chris

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