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moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:50 AM, Jeremy H wrote:
Hope this makes sense to people
Sorry, but not to me it doesn't; it just looks like a whole load of complexity for complexity's sake.

Much like Bill H mentioned in his earlier post The only way I learned about it was by accident. Having learned about it, Drafts are now something I can handle as and when required without a load of prompts, buttons and so on... rather like the 10001 (and counting) other things I do on a daily basis on non - IT subjects. For example I find that I can leave the house and lock up without prompts, and get into the car and set off "ditto".

Chris


moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

Jeremy H
 

Something I have found is that sometimes what I would have hoped to have been auto-saved hasn't been - either an auto-save has not been done, or what has been auto-saved has been overwritten (for some reason or another...). Or that I just find/access it. So I would welcome the ability to manually (deliberately) save a draft, by clicking button.

So perhaps this should be a cue for a larger review of drafts, and how/when they are saved, accessed and (eventually) deleted.

My thoughts as a starter:

Normal flow:
Start composing message (new/reply)
'Current' version auto saved as draft periodically, or on navigating away from page. Should these by the same? Should multiple generations be kept?
When message is sent, auto-saved drafts are deleted.

Resumed flow: 
Go back to compose.
Latest auto-saved version is restored, to be completed...
Then as normal flow.

'Manually saved' draft:
Click 'save' button - draft saved. This would also be the 'latest' draft (until another auto-save is done), for the 'resumed' flow case above.
But that resumed flow should not automatically delete the manually saved draft, if has been automatically loaded.
If composition of the message continues (after manual saving), autosaving will not overwrite the manually saved version, and eventual sending will delete autosaved, but not the manually saved version.
Subsequent manual saving should not just overwrite the original manually saved version.
Possibly there should be an option on sending or manually saving to delete (or not) old manually saved drafts?

There should (somewhere) be a menu listing saved drafts - including, at the end (?) any auto-saved draft(s) with options to
i) delete draft
ii) resume composing the draft - with the ability (somehow, and documented, if not by separate options) to resume the draft, or keep it (long term) as a 'model'

Hope this makes sense to people - just my four bits worth.

Jeremy




moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

 

How about, if the user stops typing for five seconds, and a draft is saved of the text to date, the words "Draft has been saved" appear somewhere, probably in gray. The message would stay visible until the user starts typing again, which would cause it to instantly disappear, until the user takes another break and a draft is once again saved.

JohnF


moderated Re: Add info about confirmation request to Email Commands FAQ in Help #suggestion

 

Hi Shal,

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 10:05 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

Sample wording:
-----
Using these commands is a two-step process:
  1.  Send the command from your email address,
  2.  Receive and reply to Groups.io's Confirmation request email.
The command will not take effect until you complete the second step.
-----
cf: http://yahoogroupedia.pbworks.com/Using-Email-Commands

I've added this.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

 

Being a gmail user for way too many years I am used to drafts being automatically saved. 
However I have also learned that if something is important enough that I don’t want to lose something it goes into a text file or a note temporarily to ensure I don’t lose my work.
I sometimes feel that people expect to be babysat online instead of taking personal responsibility for their work. 


Patti


moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

Noel Leaver
 

>> Neither am I. It has saved me a few times. As i started my original post, it's more for peace of mind.

>> It would be better to emphasize the auto draft save.

> You have a point. The only way I learned about it was by accident.

Several packages I use prompt you 'Do you want to keep a draft' when you exit without sending. It makes you aware it is keeping a draft.

Noel


moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

Bill Hazel
 

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 02:57 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
*No, I am NOT advocating to elimination of the existing draft auto-save.
Neither am I. It has saved me a few times. As i started my original post, it's more for peace of mind.
It would be better to emphasize the auto draft save.
You have a point. The only way I learned about it was by accident.
I just checked this wiki, the official Help and GMF wiki for "draft"
The best description is found on Message Drafts. Not sure how to make it more visible as it is linked to from home page of GMF wiki.
There is also another brief mention on Starting a new thread or sending a message on a new topic


moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 01:04 AM, Bill Hazel wrote:
Having a Save Draft button would have spared me a bit of anxiety.
If I understand correctly, the proposal is to add a button that does nothing but pop up a dialog box that says "Draft saved" (or something to that effect).

Unlike Bob, I'm not strongly opposed to the idea, but I do suspect we're just trading one problem for another, to wit:  an increased number of people who wonder how they managed to save a draft when they didn't click on the button.*

Regards,
Bruce

*No, I am NOT advocating to elimination of the existing draft auto-save.


moderated Re: Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

I strongly disagree that we need a Save Draft button
I started this reply and then went to another group without a worry about saving this draft

I just came back from browsing around and this draft was saved in my Drafts for Bets.

Why do we need a Save Draft Button when the save is automatic?

It would be better to emphasize the auto draft save.
--

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Add info about confirmation request to Email Commands FAQ in Help #suggestion

 

Mark,

In the FAQ section of the Help page there is a list of the Email Commands. It strongly implies is that all one need do is send the command for the action to take place:
https://groups.io/static/help#what-are-the-available-email-commands

For most (all but +help and +owner) one must also receive and reply to a confirmation message sent by Groups.io in response to the command. Not knowing this, many members miss that confirmation request and believe that the command is broken. This is most often reported with the +unsubscribe command.

The description in help, and in the upcoming manual for Members, should include this important fact.

Sample wording:
-----
Using these commands is a two-step process:
1. Send the command from your email address,
2. Receive and reply to Groups.io's Confirmation request email.
The command will not take effect until you complete the second step.
-----
cf: http://yahoogroupedia.pbworks.com/Using-Email-Commands

The manual could have more complete wording, including an explanation about why the confirmation step is necessary.

Shal


moderated Add Save Draft Button to Messages and New Topic #suggestion

Bill Hazel
 

This is more for peace of mind than anything else.
It would be nice to have a Save Draft button at the bottom of the page.

I started going through the Almost completed version of the Owners and Moderators manual and after I noticed the 2nd thing to comment on - on the same page I'd just commented on - I decided rather than clog up the docs@beta.groups.io Messages every time I found something to comment on I'd just create a New Topic and document them as I came to them. On page 18 (28 of the PDF), my brain was fried and so I decided to save my work rather than post.

No "Save" button ?!?!?!
I had learned from past experience that a draft is saved when I (accidentally) left a message I hadn't posted but over an hour's work?
Anyway, i selected all, copied it then, with great trepidation, I clicked on Messages and uttered a sigh of relief, I had a draft. I opened it and it was right where I left off.

Having a Save Draft button would have spared me a bit of anxiety.

Bill


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • API: Most endpoints now support the extended=true parameter.
  • API: Endpoints /unbounceuser, /deleteprofilephoto, /resendconfirmationemail now require a POST request along with csrf token.
  • API: Added additional documentation around extended=true parameter.
  • API: Added token parameter to /login endpoint to allow generation/login using HTTP Auth instead of a cookie.
  • CHANGE: When creating a group, if the user has a timezone set, we use that for the default timezone of the group.
  • BUGFIX: In some cases where a moderator claimed a pending message and then left a group, an erroneous claiming badge would be displayed on their previously claimed pending messages.
  • API: Added bouncing option for type parameter of /getmembers endpoint.
  • BUGFIX: When your default message sort is newest first, and you click on the oldest month on the group home page, previously it would not go to the first message in the archives as expected
  • INTERNAL: Updated the Let's Encrypt Cert renewal process.
  • BUGFIX: The Github add integration flow did not work with enterprise groups. Also, the Github API is being updated and we needed to upgrade the library we use to access it.
  • CHANGE: Changed more instances of thread in the UI to topic.
  • INTERNAL: Optimize forcedigests process.
  • BUGFIX: In generated ICS files, we were HTML encoding the Organizer field when we should not have. This was causing parsing errors with some calendars.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Mark


moderated Re: Almost completed version of the Owners and Moderators manual #misc

 

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 3:21 PM Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:

I have the inclination (and even the skill, I used to work as a proofreader), but before I can tell you if I have the time, can you give me an idea of how long it is?

The PDF is 75 pages.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Almost completed version of the Owners and Moderators manual #misc

Glenn Glazer
 

On 3/6/2020 15:01, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Hi All,
 
Our tireless and fearless tech writer Nina has mostly completed the Owners and Moderators manual and it is ready for review. I have uploaded a PDF of it to the Files section of the https://beta.groups.io/g/docs subgroup. If you have time and the inclination, I would appreciate it if you could join the docs subgroup, download the manual, and provide feedback. Feedback should be posted to the docs subgroup, not here. The only section that needs to be filled in are the steps around setting up a donation request, and that's because I haven't gotten the information to Nina yet.
 
Once the manual is finalized, it will added as a section to the Groups.io website in HTML as well as in a downloadable PDF format.
 
Nina is now working on a separate manual for members.
 
Thanks,
Mark

I have the inclination (and even the skill, I used to work as a proofreader), but before I can tell you if I have the time, can you give me an idea of how long it is?

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated Almost completed version of the Owners and Moderators manual #misc

 

Hi All,
 
Our tireless and fearless tech writer Nina has mostly completed the Owners and Moderators manual and it is ready for review. I have uploaded a PDF of it to the Files section of the https://beta.groups.io/g/docs subgroup. If you have time and the inclination, I would appreciate it if you could join the docs subgroup, download the manual, and provide feedback. Feedback should be posted to the docs subgroup, not here. The only section that needs to be filled in are the steps around setting up a donation request, and that's because I haven't gotten the information to Nina yet.
 
Once the manual is finalized, it will added as a section to the Groups.io website in HTML as well as in a downloadable PDF format.
 
Nina is now working on a separate manual for members.
 
Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Profile Privacy #suggestion

 

Peter,


Is there a case for the default settting to 'Other Members of your Group' ?

I think there's a conflict between that idea and the fact that one's group profile defaults to the content of one's Account Profile. When you join a new group you might inadvertently expose things you would have changed had you had a chance to review the content of your profile in the new group before exposing it to the other members.


We are always encouraging our Members to select to show their details to other group members.  Not easy as some are not particularly computer literate and can't / won't do this

That's a particularly uphill battle for members who prefer to be "email only" and are reluctant to log into the site. I'm not sure there's anything to be done for them other than continued encouragement.

Members who do visit the group's pages could perhaps be given a reminder of some kind. But I wouldn't want it to be a constant nag - it would need an easy way to turn it off. Perhaps just visiting the Group Profile page could do that.

Shal


moderated Re: Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

 

Michael,


PLUS the Default Sub Setting's default should be that of the group's creator as the logical place to start from (not California's).

I like this idea, where the default account settings (time zone and display) are concerned.

prompt Groups.io accounts (email address) to set (or verify) their time zone before they join each group,
and if that group is set for a different time zone, have them choose which time zone they want for that group.

Each user has a single time zone setting (in their account), not one per group membership. I think expanding this to one per group would be too confusing for the users.

Maybe the user could be alerted to the fact that the group's Default Sub Setting for time zone differs from his/hers. A banner on their Subscription page perhaps, with a link to their Account Preferences?

But that wouldn't affect users that are Direct Added, or who accept an Invitation by email, or who +subscribe by email - until or unless they visit their Subscription page for that group.

Shal


moderated Re: Profile Privacy #suggestion

Duane
 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 12:14 PM, Peter Rawbone wrote:
Is there a case for the default settting to 'Other Members of your Group' ?
If so, I would want it be a group setting option.

Duane


moderated Re: Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

 

Bruce wrote:


Many creators of new groups fail to fill out the Default Sub Settings. ...
To head that off, I suggest that Default Sub Settings be moved to its own block within the main group Settings page...

I think that would lead to more trouble and confusion, both because it would make the Settings page even longer and because it would be mixing to conceptually different types of controls. I don't think defaults for member subscription settings belong mixed in with group settings.

It would be better, I think, to find a way to draw the new group owner's attention to the Default Sub Settings tab.

Perhaps a new group could have a green banner at the top of (each tab of) the Settings page with Settings, Default Sub Settings, Cover Photo, and Member Notices listed as bullet points under a heading reminding the user to review each tab (but not Export Group Data, and I'm really unclear on the Member Sync tab that seems to come and go). As the Update (or whatever) button is used in each tab that bullet item would be removed, until all four are removed and the banner itself goes away. In the banner, each bullet point could have a short phrase or sentence to indicate what that tab is all about.

 
... or if not all of it, at least those portions that relate to time and date.

I like this better. Those settings are arguably misplaced among the new member subscription defaults, as they initialize new user accounts instead. This does cause some confusion. Some new group owners do not have a firm understanding of the distinction between a member's subscription to (membership in) their group versus that member's account at Groups.io.

The settings don't really belong among the group settings either, but at least there are fewer of them so they wouldn't overload that tab so badly.

Shal


moderated Re: Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

Michael Pavan
 

On Mar 4, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@tds.net> wrote:

Many creators of new groups fail to fill out the Default Sub Settings. Later, when they discover that all their current subscribers are on the "wrong" time zone (or whatever), they find themselves needing to retroactively (and painstakingly) fix this setting for everybody, one by one.

To head that off, I suggest that Default Sub Settings be moved to its own block within the main group Settings page...or if not all of it, at least those portions that relate to time and date.
Agree.

PLUS the Default Sub Setting's default should be that of the group's creator as the logical place to start from (not California's).
Many/most groups are all in their creator's time zone, and most creators would likely prefer their members begin with those settings.
Of course, some groups are in more than one time zone (and outlier members will have to adjust theirs).


BETTER YET,
prompt Groups.io accounts (email address) to set (or verify) their time zone before they join each group,
and if that group is set for a different time zone, have them choose which time zone they want for that group.

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