Date   

moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

I requested wiki change notifications but *always* assumed they would be available only to moderators. That is a problem overall: there is no mechanism to make sure a given notification is sent only to moderators. With the new scheme I'm suggesting, all the possible notifications would be on one page (the notification specifications, not their hashtags). Certain notifications would by default be available/viewable only to moderators, and/or constrained by owners to be available to certain moderators with the correct permissions. You could choose not to have wiki notifications go out at all, or go out only to mods; same with all the other kinds. The notification hashtags could be specified on the page for each notification. The hashtags would also be in a separate block, and would have certain options automatically unchecked by default or simply not available (e.g. the problematic "no email," also probably "moderated," etc.) ("Locked" could be set by default so that nobody can answer the notification, but could be changed by mods if desired.)


On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 8:08 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 06:09 AM, Sandi D wrote:
I don't want everyone in my group getting a wiki notification for every spelling and grammar error that I correct. Or for fixing a broken link.
I did an informal survey of some of my members.  No one wants any/all these notifications sent to them.  They don't care what goes on behind the scenes, they just want useful information that is posted to the group that may help them with problems.  Even as a moderator/owner, there are very few that I'd want to see, mostly when something on the group is changed - photos added, wiki page added/changed, file uploaded, messages edited, etc. (and then via email, not instant browser notifications) - but not notify the whole group.  There's already been a flurry of complaints on GMF due to the notices being sent to the groups.

Regards,
Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: File upload notifications

 

Agree that it should be unchecked by default, don't know why it was changed.


On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 7:57 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 03:00 PM, M Parker wrote:
I am pleased to see that the Notify Members checkbox when a file is uploaded is now checked by default.
I would very much like to see it go back the way it was (unchecked by default). A positive action should be required by a user in order to generate a file upload message. If you forget to check the box when you want a message, there's always the option of reloading the file with the option checked. Forgetting to uncheck the box means the message gets sent. I know there's now a #file hashtag that could be moderated but that is an extra thing to monitor and I would want to have to moderate file uploads from other members and determine whether or not they actually wanted a message sent or they had just forgotten to uncheck the box.

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Duane
 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 06:09 AM, Sandi D wrote:
I don't want everyone in my group getting a wiki notification for every spelling and grammar error that I correct. Or for fixing a broken link.
I did an informal survey of some of my members.  No one wants any/all these notifications sent to them.  They don't care what goes on behind the scenes, they just want useful information that is posted to the group that may help them with problems.  Even as a moderator/owner, there are very few that I'd want to see, mostly when something on the group is changed - photos added, wiki page added/changed, file uploaded, messages edited, etc. (and then via email, not instant browser notifications) - but not notify the whole group.  There's already been a flurry of complaints on GMF due to the notices being sent to the groups.

Regards,
Duane


moderated Re: File upload notifications

Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 03:00 PM, M Parker wrote:
I am pleased to see that the Notify Members checkbox when a file is uploaded is now checked by default.
I would very much like to see it go back the way it was (unchecked by default). A positive action should be required by a user in order to generate a file upload message. If you forget to check the box when you want a message, there's always the option of reloading the file with the option checked. Forgetting to uncheck the box means the message gets sent. I know there's now a #file hashtag that could be moderated but that is an extra thing to monitor and I would want to have to moderate file uploads from other members and determine whether or not they actually wanted a message sent or they had just forgotten to uncheck the box.

Andy


moderated Re: 'No email' attribute ignored on 'file' hashtag #bug

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 06:15 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
I had 'no email' specified but an email was still sent to my test subgroup.
Andy, do you mean actual emails were sent out to group members, or do you mean that a message was sent to the subgroup? "No email" just means (for a normal hashtag) that the messages in the tagged topic are sent only to the web archive and don't go out as individual emails.

The whole "no email" issue on notification hashtags is problematic. I'm proposing (as in my last message, in the other thread) that that setting, and other inappropriate settings, be eliminated by the system on notification hashtags altogether, or at least turned off by default.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: File upload notifications

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 07:20 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
we need some way to distinguish between the system-generated notification and a message with the #file or #wiki added by a subscriber.
I agree. The system hashtags could/should be set to "use by moderators only." Other attributes of them could/should also be set by default by the system, such as the ones that don't really apply (e.g. "locked," "moderated") and the ones that seem to conflict with alternatively-specified attributes (e.g., "no email"). In the case of "no email," it sounds on the surface like you're trying to specify the conditions and methods under which the notification is delivered. But that could/should be handled elsewhere in the separate "notifications" section I'm proposing.

Each notification would have various options and conditions for delivery, specified by the mods. They would each get a system hashtag, but those hashtags would be specially set up and constrained by the system as above, so as not to conflict with the options of the notification itself. Members could still mute the tags individually.

Those are the lines I'm starting to think along.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: File upload notifications

Bruce Bowman
 

Mark -- I'm thinking that we need some way to distinguish between the system-generated notification and a message with the #file or #wiki added by a subscriber.

In the former case, I might want to mute it, or set it to No Email, or set the Topic Duration to one hour or some such, so it doesn't reside forever in the message archive. In the latter case I would want it to go through to the subscribers immediately and remain forever in the archive.

Currently, the only way available to manage this is to put the hashtag on moderation, which not only increases moderator workload (re: Patti's problem with wiki updates) but also delays the posting of desirable messages.

If we're going to use system hashtags for this, we're going to need some way to keep subscribers from using them (and optimally, keep them off the "top hashtags" list). Since bouncing incoming emails that might by chance contain a reserved hashtag seems rather harsh, I suggest they simply be stripped.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:00 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
separate block
Yes, separate block. I'm about to go back and revisit Mark's question about whether notifications should be in a separate place, or something. I did not even understand the question at that point because I couldn't mine to work at all due to the private browsing issue. But the more I see what this is, the more I think there should be a separate "notifications" section, and "notifications" should be separate entities, with all of their appropriate attributes (such as to whom, and when, they are sent out and in what form), and with none of the inappropriate ones. Their hashtags could be incidental, just as with cal-notices. Hashtags would not be the main mechanism for them.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 05:08 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
There's no way for me to know the reason why notifications aren't available in a browser, so I don't think I can be more specific on the message. But we'll add troubleshooting info to the docs
Mark,

I don't know how many people browse privately as a matter of course, but I suspect it might be non-trivial. I'm thinking you might consider adding something to the effect of "(Some browsers do not allow push notifications if browsing privately.)" below the line stating that the browser does not support notifications. It took several days for me, in concert with a few others here, to figure out what was wrong, and adding something general like that seems easy and might save people from resorting to a troubleshooting page.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: File upload notifications

M Parker
 

Mark

I am pleased to see that the Notify Members checkbox when a file is uploaded is now checked by default. I would be unhappy if the feature was removed as I periodically move files around from one folder to another for archiving purposes and am not keen on there being lots of such notifications swamping the daily digests or individual mails for members receiving them. Setting a time period is one way to avoid this but is 5 minutes long enough?

Margaret P
Leeds, UK

I just pushed the following changes:
  • The Notify Members checkbox when uploading files is now checked by default, in preparation for removing it at some point.

Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions. One thing I'm curious about is whether I need to aggregate these notifications if they are generated within a certain limited time period. That is, if someone does 10 edits of the same wiki page in 5 minutes, should those just generate one notification (after 5 minutes). This would cause a delay on when the notification is sent out while we wait to see if any more changes happen. I'm curious to know if that will be a common occurrence.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________


moderated Re: 'No email' attribute ignored on 'file' hashtag #bug

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 06:15 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
ignored on the #file hashtag
Actually I tested it only for the #wiki tag, and my prior message refers to that. It needs to be tested for all of them at this point.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: 'No email' attribute ignored on 'file' hashtag #bug

 

That is a double bug, because if you check "no email," the push notification is silenced. It's stated that the push only goes out whenever an email goes out. So evidently, push thinks the email didn't go out, even though it did. (I tested this yesterday for a completely different reason. Since turning the email back on restored the push, I assumed that no-email was working, at least on its own.) Mark said yesterday that he would look into the behavior of no-email because of the resulting push behavior. (Also the fact that the notification is still sent to the group, even if not emailed.) The whole thing does not jive.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated 'No email' attribute ignored on 'file' hashtag #bug

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

just in case this point got lost in the long discussions about the new notifications I thought I'd raise it separately.

The 'No email' attribute is ignored on the #file hashtag. I had 'no email' specified but an email was still sent to my test subgroup.

I initially thought the 'notify members' checkbox option took precedence over the 'no email' attribute of the hashtag but an email is sent even if the 'notify members' box is unchecked.

Regards,
Andy


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 02:59 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Agreed. There has to be a way to turn each notification off, either completely, and/or per action (as with uploading files), and/or sending just to moderators. Preferably all of those options. 
Exactly. That would be great.
Victoria

 


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

Agreed. There has to be a way to turn each notification off, either completely, and/or per action (as with uploading files), and/or sending just to moderators. Preferably all of those options. 

The choice of “no email” for a regular hashtag is an example of square peg - round hole. It has a completely different meaning (and effect) for these notification tags. “Locked” and “moderated” and other settings also don’t really apply in any meaningful way. I think “notification tags“ should be completely separate objects, not regular hashtags, with their own settings etc. 


On Jun 18, 2020, at 4:09 AM, Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...> wrote:

In scrolling down the replies to this thread I don't see if there is a way for wiki edit notifications to reach only mods and owners. 

I don't want everyone in my group getting a wiki notification for every spelling and grammar error that I correct. Or for fixing a broken link. 

This is coming at a bad time as I was in the process of proofing our wiki. 

Thanks. 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

In scrolling down the replies to this thread I don't see if there is a way for wiki edit notifications to reach only mods and owners. 

I don't want everyone in my group getting a wiki notification for every spelling and grammar error that I correct. Or for fixing a broken link. 

This is coming at a bad time as I was in the process of proofing our wiki. 

Thanks. 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Jean

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:15 AM, Jean Bennett wrote:
clicked to be taken to the photo and got a 404 error
this was reported earlier in this topic and Mark mentioned it had been fixed for new notifications https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25391

If your message with the link was generated before Mark fixed the problem you will still get a 404 error.  If you upload a new photo and get a new notification and link it should be OK now.

Cheers
Andy


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Jean Bennett
 

Mark—First, my extreme gratitude for the rollout of notifications. Got the first notification of an uploaded photo, and then clicked to be taken to the photo and got a 404 error that the photo wasn’t there (it is). Probably just a bug. I can send you the notification if you need it.

Jean


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Duane
 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 02:00 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
GMF has that problem with #wiki already, and has near misses with the other two (#files and #photos).
On one of my groups, I had a tag named #File that I've changed to #Files.  If I hadn't, no telling how it would have reacted with the notification system.

Duane


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:51 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Failing groups.io doing it, there should be a list somewhere, maybe in the documentation, about exactly what notification hashtags are available.
As the number of system hashtags seems to be growing, it would also be help to have them clearly identified on the hashtags page - perhaps by listing them in a separate block.

Andy

3681 - 3700 of 28867