Date   

moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 08:52 AM, Drew wrote:
The conspiracy theory category seems awfully broad
Maybe, but I don't think that matters. It gives Mark wiggle room to pick and choose when there is any question about it.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

 

I, too, am very happy the restrictions are here.

I remember a debate on beta about the restrictions when they first came into being (or were being contemplated by Mark). Some people argued that they would be bad for business or that they had no place here, etc. My argument then, as it is now, was that the restrictions (not to make light of them) are "a feature, not a bug" - in other words, they are good for business, not bad.  And now we are seeing that come to pass, in hearing from at least one person in this thread that they specifically picked groups.io over other platforms because of them.

So good job, Mark. Carry on!
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

txercoupemuseum.org
 

I mentioned very recently that one of my reasons to be in this group is to get a better sense of the “defining culture” within 
Groups.io.  Mark has most clearly and eloquently established the “rules of participation” of HIS organization.  

Like any “parent”, it is for him and him alone to set limits within “his house” that define “his values”.  Since we are all known by the company we keep I see nothing whatsoever unreasonable here.  

In his place, only strong convictions keep a steady course and avoid the shoals of timidity or inaction.  One need only recall their own experiences as a child to understand that life can be very stressful in the moral vacuum that quickly arises when no responsible person establishes and enforces civility.  

The individuals that founded this country were well aware of the forms of oppression that adversely affect minorities under pure "majority rule".   They incorporated numerous checks and balances to mitigate this.  

From what I have observed of his actions and inactions over recent months Mark consistently strives to “do the right thing”.  
I am most favorably impressed to date with the moral balance Mark has established and maintains within Groups.io.

WRB

— 

On Dec 28, 2019, at 9:35 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 7:26 AM Stephen Cowley via Groups.Io <stephen.cowley=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
The list of groups that are not permitted under the "Help" section is as follows on 28 Dec 2019:
    4. Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or exclusionary ideas, including but not limited to, the alt-right.
    5. Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories, including, but not limited to: Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon.
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse. The central terms are undefined, subjective and even self-contradictory.

If you object, you should take your groups elsewhere. There are plenty of places on the Internet to host groups; Facebook is a popular place to host these types of groups.

I am happy to consider better definitions, should you have them. But I will not consider removing these restrictions.

I have moderated this topic and will delete any non-constructive responses.

Mark 
_._,_._,_


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

“Freeloaders??” Wow. That’s pretty rude!! 


On Dec 28, 2019, at 2:43 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 01:12 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
One question occurs to me belatedly: If feature requests are taken offlist to Canny (or other), bug reports go to support, and (as usual) help questions go to one of the help forums (GMF or Group_Help), then what would be left for beta? I think either way would be fine, but I realized I don't understand what would be the function of beta if those categories are delegated out.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I think this was already covered.  Did you forget?

Canny is for Premium and up, beta will always be available for the "freeloaders" suggestions.

Or maybe you are thinking of something else?
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 11:43 AM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
I think this was already covered.  Did you forget?

Canny is for Premium and up, 
Yes, I remembered that but thought that was up for reconsideration at this point, since the non-premium members expressed feeling left out, and the bifurcation could cause confusion in tabulating and keeping track of suggestions.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 01:12 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
One question occurs to me belatedly: If feature requests are taken offlist to Canny (or other), bug reports go to support, and (as usual) help questions go to one of the help forums (GMF or Group_Help), then what would be left for beta? I think either way would be fine, but I realized I don't understand what would be the function of beta if those categories are delegated out.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I think this was already covered.  Did you forget?

Canny is for Premium and up, beta will always be available for the "freeloaders" suggestions.

Or maybe you are thinking of something else?
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

One question occurs to me belatedly: If feature requests are taken offlist to Canny (or other), bug reports go to support, and (as usual) help questions go to one of the help forums (GMF or Group_Help), then what would be left for beta? I think either way would be fine, but I realized I don't understand what would be the function of beta if those categories are delegated out.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

Drew
 

The conspiracy theory category seems awfully broad. It could include topics like Area 51, Planet X, Moon landing, Bigfoot, dollar bill symbology, Flight 007, HAARP, chem trails, JFK, Lincoln, Julius & Ethel Rosenberg... Perhaps the intended "objectionable" conspiracies would be eliminated by the other restrictions?

Drew

On 12/28/19 10:35, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 7:26 AM Stephen Cowley via Groups.Io <stephen.cowley=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io <mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:
The list of groups that are not permitted under the "Help" section
is as follows on 28 Dec 2019:
4. Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or
exclusionary ideas, including but not limited to, the alt-right.
5. Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories,
including, but not limited to: Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon.
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse. The
central terms are undefined, subjective and even self-contradictory.
If you object, you should take your groups elsewhere. There are plenty of places on the Internet to host groups; Facebook is a popular place to host these types of groups.
I am happy to consider better definitions, should you have them. But I will not consider removing these restrictions.
I have moderated this topic and will delete any non-constructive responses.
Mark


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

Barbara Byers
 

Mark’s list, Mark’s rules.  Thank you, Mark!

Barb B


On Dec 28, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Stephen Cowley via Groups.Io <stephen.cowley@...> wrote:

The list of groups that are not permitted under the "Help" section is as follows on 28 Dec 2019:

"We do not permit the following types of groups and content:

  1. Pornography, adult content or nudity.
  2. Harassment of any kind.
  3. Groups that share media or content whose distribution would be in violation of copyright law.
  4. Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or exclusionary ideas, including but not limited to, the alt-right.
  5. Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories, including, but not limited to: Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon.
  6. Groups dedicated to the promotion of anti-vaccination ideologies.
  7. Groups that are designed strictly to use our directory as an advertisement for something other than the group itself."
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse. The central terms are undefined, subjective and even self-contradictory. To cut to the chase, "Alt-Right" ideas (e.g. immigration restriction, retention of ethnic majorities) are majority positions in much of the world. The elected governments of India (BJP), Japan and South Korea for example enjoy majority support, as do the elected governments of Hungary and Poland. Why should ideas with 70% popular support be branded "extreme"? The category of "hateful" is subjective, as one person may like what another person hates. Any immigration policy is "exclusionary", as it excludes people who do not meet the immigration criteria, but the remaining position of open borders is itself "extreme", as virtually all countries have immigration and citizenship tests. If "Alt-Right" ideas are beyond the pale, why not communism, or socialism, or deep ecology, or liberalism, or conservatism? 

The classic texts of liberalism (Joseph Priestley's Essay on the First Principles of Government, John Stuart Mill's On Liberty)  advocate for free discussion as a means of getting to the truth of a matter. The internet flourished on this in its early days. I would like to see these principles applied on this site.


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

 

I am very happy that groups.io does have these restrictions. That´s one reason I´m not at facebook. And by the way: Any provider has the right to set his/her own regulations.

Victoria

 


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

Kristen James Eberlein
 

Mark, thank you for providing a site that does not host groups that advocate conspiracy theories or the alt-right.

I (and the other moderators of dita-users) appreciate this very much, and it was one of the key factors in why we selected Groups.io.

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Owner, DITA-users@groups.io


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

Duane
 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 09:26 AM, Stephen Cowley wrote:
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse.
You do know that you don't have to use this site?

Duane


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

 

I, for one, am happy these rules are here. I know that I can support this site without supporting hateful people and extreme conspiracies. Besides, there's always Google Groups. You can go elsewhere to places that support these kinds of groups.


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 7:26 AM Stephen Cowley via Groups.Io <stephen.cowley=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
The list of groups that are not permitted under the "Help" section is as follows on 28 Dec 2019:
    4. Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or exclusionary ideas, including but not limited to, the alt-right.
    5. Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories, including, but not limited to: Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon.
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse. The central terms are undefined, subjective and even self-contradictory.

If you object, you should take your groups elsewhere. There are plenty of places on the Internet to host groups; Facebook is a popular place to host these types of groups.

I am happy to consider better definitions, should you have them. But I will not consider removing these restrictions.

I have moderated this topic and will delete any non-constructive responses.

Mark 


moderated Non-permitted groups

Stephen Cowley <stephen.cowley@...>
 

The list of groups that are not permitted under the "Help" section is as follows on 28 Dec 2019:

"We do not permit the following types of groups and content:

  1. Pornography, adult content or nudity.
  2. Harassment of any kind.
  3. Groups that share media or content whose distribution would be in violation of copyright law.
  4. Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or exclusionary ideas, including but not limited to, the alt-right.
  5. Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories, including, but not limited to: Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon.
  6. Groups dedicated to the promotion of anti-vaccination ideologies.
  7. Groups that are designed strictly to use our directory as an advertisement for something other than the group itself."
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse. The central terms are undefined, subjective and even self-contradictory. To cut to the chase, "Alt-Right" ideas (e.g. immigration restriction, retention of ethnic majorities) are majority positions in much of the world. The elected governments of India (BJP), Japan and South Korea for example enjoy majority support, as do the elected governments of Hungary and Poland. Why should ideas with 70% popular support be branded "extreme"? The category of "hateful" is subjective, as one person may like what another person hates. Any immigration policy is "exclusionary", as it excludes people who do not meet the immigration criteria, but the remaining position of open borders is itself "extreme", as virtually all countries have immigration and citizenship tests. If "Alt-Right" ideas are beyond the pale, why not communism, or socialism, or deep ecology, or liberalism, or conservatism? 

The classic texts of liberalism (Joseph Priestley's Essay on the First Principles of Government, John Stuart Mill's On Liberty)  advocate for free discussion as a means of getting to the truth of a matter. The internet flourished on this in its early days. I would like to see these principles applied on this site.


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

Or just add it as part of the sig line of moderators and any other regular participants who want to note that this is a peer to peer group. That’s the simplest way to alert folks. 

Susan B 


On Dec 28, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Patti Woodbury <deserthorses@...> wrote:

It might be clearer that GMF is a peer to peer “not official” group if it were renamed “Groups Manager Community” or “Groups Community Forum”. Many site have both an “official” Help/Support arm and a user community group.

Patti


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

It might be clearer that GMF is a peer to peer “not official” group if it were renamed “Groups Manager Community” or “Groups Community Forum”. Many sites have both an “official” Help/Support arm and a user community group.

Patti


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

It might be clearer that GMF is a peer to peer “not official” group if it were renamed “Groups Manager Community” or “Groups Community Forum”. Many site have both an “official” Help/Support arm and a user community group.

Patti


moderated Re: Request for Full Date-Time Stamp in Activity Logs #suggestion

JediPirx
 

Chris Jones wrote on Fri 2019/12/27 12:01 :
Date & Time formats are settable per Account
I set this when I created my GIO account in Apr 2019 to
YYYY-MM-DD and Military Time. It is also the same format
I set in my group's Admin-->Settings-->Default Sub Settings
for new users.


Duane wrote on Fri 2019/12/27 12:01 :
They already have the complete date and time. Just hover the
mouse cursor over the time or date and it will give you the
entire thing.
Ahh, yes, I see. This will do. It displays as Xxx xx, 20xx xx:xx
[example : Dec 28, 2019 01:33]


J_Catlady wrote on Fri 2019/12/27 12:39 :
Perhaps you're asking for a full display ?
Precisely, as per my preference : yyyy-mm-dd HH:mm:[ss]
where [ss] is optional for most people but I deal with
such date/time stamps regularly.


Maybe there isn't enough space for that.
Perhaps.


Thanks to all,

Stan/elgio


moderated Re: More attachment size selections requested

Duane
 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 06:17 PM, Glenn wrote:
Clicking the link in the email opens their browser, then they have to login in the browser, before they can download it.
Only if they've logged out or deleted cookies.  You'll stay logged in indefinitely as long as you visit the site at least once every 30 days and don't delete cookies.  In that case, the file pops up immediately when the browser opens.

Duane