Date   

moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

Marv Waschke
 

Canny is a nice interface, but, for me, it makes keeping up with groups.io more difficult because it is yet another thing to monitor. Using hashtags in beta to separate new feature requests, bugs, etc. may be a convenience for Mark when he is planning his work agenda. If he finds them useful, I'm in favor.
Best, Marv


moderated Re: OT: amazing cat toy

 

SORRY! Posted to wrong group. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated OT: amazing cat toy

 

My cats' feather wand toys were wearing out so I looked for a couple of new ones. Among the ones I ordered was this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G90773S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
It arrived yesterday, and wow!!! My cats are so obsessed with it that I had to share here. In all my years of cats, and billions of toys, I have never seen such an amazing reaction to a toy. (I'm almost afraid to post this because I'm afraid it will sell out or they'll raise the price.;) I just ordered two more, just in case!) They will play with non-stop, until *I* am the one worn out. I think it's the combination of the leather tassles and the feather. Who knows.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Update Delete Topic dialog to include topic title #suggestion

Louie S
 

I just had to delete an inappropriate topic from a group I moderate and accidental used the pull down menu from the previous topic. While there is a confirmation dialog it does not contain any information to identify the topic you are about to delete. I believe it would be very helpful for that confirmation dialog box to contain the topic title. That would very helpful and would probably prevented my from deleting the wrong topic.

tks,

-louie


moderated Re: Sometimes, clicking Like causes a draft message to be saved #bug

Christos G. Psarras
 

>>> ...  But if we click on view/reply online, there should not be a reply box automatically opened.  We can do that for ourselves once online by clicking the reply button. The problem is ... in the automatic opening of the reply form... <<<


Yes, the "View/Reply Online" link in the footer behaves differently in group digest*** emails vs group individual emails; the former will automatically open the reply box, the latter will not; i.e. the former includes the ?reply=1 parameter in the link, the latter does not.  So in the former case, any click on most all other options on the thread/topic page except the red Discard (draft) button will result in a saved blank message body draft.

The other two footer reply links behave the same, it's only this link that's different between the two.  I don't know what's the intent behind this difference, but IMO it should work the same on both.

Cheers,
Christos

*** (I only tested the Full-Feature digest, not sure if it also does the same on the plain or daily summary emails)



moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

 

Hi.  I am a lurker here, never post.   Always interesting to me to see the discussions.   On the group I moderate, this subject of rules comes up often.  Almost always brought up by someone who is more interested in the actual words, vs the spirit, of the rules.  As I usually remind people, we will never get every rule right - it’s just the nature of things.   Remember the spirit.  


The other thing we always remind people is that the First Amendment does not apply here - we are a private group.  Mark is right - if you don’t like it, you can go elsewhere.   It’s another sad reality that most people who quote the first amendment don’t understand it.  


Overall, kudos to Mark for establishing this space for all of us to use.  His rules, and the spirit of them, seem fair.  So does the application.  The wording could be better - perhaps remove the examples and make it about the concept (Mark - let me know if you would like some examples sent to you offline for you consideration).  


Stay warm everyone.   Here’s to 2020 being the best year it can be.  


moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

Bill in OKC too
 

Mark, I had to look it up to see why it would be a problem.  Personally, I don't see it as a problem. Anyone who doesn't want to be here is welcome to leave. You and I don't really agree politically, but you've never intruded your beliefs on me, and I try not to intrude mine on you. It is an axiom of our country that we're free to believe as we wish, and to associate as we wish. Anyone who doesn't like the few rules here can certainly find someplace else to be. I know you to be an honest and decent person despite our differences, as when I left groups.io in the middle of 2016 over problems with your Terms of Service, you addressed them by more clearly defining what you needed and exactly how you would use your access to our copyrighted data. Which is why I've been a happy paying customer since 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)


moderated Re: Sometimes, clicking Like causes a draft message to be saved #bug

Janis
 

I agree with both of the above.  I often want to view online just to see the whole thread together, even though I have no wish to reply.  But if we click on view/reply online, there should not be a reply box automatically opened.  We can do that for ourselves once online by clicking the reply button. The problem is not the view/reply online button but is in the automatic opening of the reply form.  Once there we know how to click on reply.


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 02:46 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
When Yahoo went into meltdown, the leader of Groups.io quickly understood he couldn’t continue “business as before”.  He acted in a timely manner to secure the funding necessary
And I actually was one of the first to advocate for that at the time. The fact that Mark needs - and highly deserves - to make a living, and a good one, does not really bear on this except possibly as a marketing issue, in that he can advertise that paying for premium comes with the priority for feature requests. Prioritizing feature suggestions from paid users, and bumping suggestions from non-paying users lower down on the basis of the user, not their suggestion, does not necessarily create a better overall product.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

Sandi D
 

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 01:14 AM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
As far as bugs, aren’t we SUPPOSED TO use “support@“?
Experienced users may know to email Support for bugs but the concept of emailing Support, in general, is a recognized way to ask for help and not specifically for reporting bugs.

As a newbie, I found it extremely difficult to determine if an action (or non action) was a bug or if it was user behaviour or lack of behavior. In one instance, it was complex enough to require 18 GMF posts over 5 days and even then, when "fixed", Shal recommended that I report the behavior to Support so that Mark could determine if a mechanism had failed. However, by then, I no longer had the problem. Thinking it was a Support issue, I had not captured screen shots that I would have if I was reporting a Bug issue. 

I suppose what I am saying is it is very helpful to have a dedicated bug area discussion (or email address) in addition to the feature area discussion.

I can live with known bugs that don't cause havoc and I see no reason to email support if someone else has done so and provided enough data to render a solution. It's helpful to me if I am aware of a known bug. I used to be a software beta tester so I am familiar with reporting relavent data but I see no need to repeatedly report the same data. I would find a bug discussion area interesting and helpful. 

Support to me, is when a user is stumped and needs help to figure out how to do something. Experienced users can generally determine if it's user behaviour or a bug. I have found GMF to be my Support. 

I think of Features as independent of bugs and support but they do often have a relationship with both. For example, when Support responds with a "work around" perhaps a new Feature could offer a direct approach. When known buggy behavior is the result of a certain action, then a new Feature could eliminate the need to use an action known to result in the annoying behavior.

--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.


moderated Re: Sometimes, clicking Like causes a draft message to be saved #bug

Sandi D
 

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 05:58 AM, Samuel Murray wrote:
When clicking "View/reply online" in a digest, and then clicking "Like", it sometimes causes a draft to be saved. 
I get the digest and click the "view/reply online" in order to read the topic online. I have to routinely clear multiple blank drafts that have been unknowingly created. While I occasionally "like" a post, the drafts far outnumber my "likes". 

In fact, the first few weeks I was on GIO I incurred 30 drafts and had never used the "like" button. I didn't realize these drafts existed until I read a topic posted to the GMF forum about blank drafts and the response that they were there due to clicking on "view/reply online" from the Digest and that it was "expected" behaviour due to the "reply" link being clicked. 

I do find it strange and to me it would make more sense to separate the "view" and the "reply links. To me a "view" link would take me to the post and from there I would decide after reading, if I wanted to reply.

I will look out for drafts being associated to a "like". 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.


moderated Re: @ Susan B/renaming-thread

 

Why yes it is his prerogative! And he almost immediately closed the thread! 😃 so fortunately there is no need for you to continue to bring up your points!

Susan B

On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:47 AM, ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 04:09 PM, Susan B wrote:


Ronaldo

One can also close the thread, as Mark has done on others.
Sure, that's HIS prerogative as owner/moderator, and people can contact the mods OFFLIST about such things.

My point is that nobody is interested in discussions about whether to have a discussion.
Those interested will follow a thread, those not interested won't follow or will hit the mute-button.
As long as it's on-topic for the group. the mods won't mind.

I hope nobody will reply to this message


groetjes, Ronaldo





moderated Re: @ Susan B/renaming-thread

ro-esp
 

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 04:09 PM, Susan B wrote:


Ronaldo

One can also close the thread, as Mark has done on others.
Sure, that's HIS prerogative as owner/moderator, and people can contact the mods OFFLIST about such things.

My point is that nobody is interested in discussions about whether to have a discussion.
Those interested will follow a thread, those not interested won't follow or will hit the mute-button.
As long as it's on-topic for the group. the mods won't mind.

I hope nobody will reply to this message


groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: More attachment size selections requested

Duane
 

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 09:00 PM, Glenn wrote:
It's a large file, remember? They have to wait for the download, before they can see it. With an attachment, it is already downloaded.
It's not necessarily downloaded with the message.  I have Thunderbird set to leave an attachment on the server until I specifically open it.  So for me, it takes longer to open an attachment than it would a direct file link due to the overhead.  This thread is getting a bit off the original subject.

As far as having larger size choices for download, it might create an extra load on the outgoing email servers, depending on how the sending is handled.  I know that some time back, someone included a big attachment to quite a few people and it overloaded the system.  I believe Mark has made adjustments to try to avoid that, but no sense putting it to the test. ;>)

Duane


moderated Sometimes, clicking Like causes a draft message to be saved #bug

Samuel Murrayy
 

Hello
As described here and in subsequent messages:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/26331

When clicking "View/reply online" in a digest, and then clicking "Like", it sometimes causes a draft to be saved.  I could not repeat this all the time, but does sometimes create a draft.

I suggest two things:

1. No draft should be saved when the "reply" field is empty.
2. The "View/reply online" link in a digest should be just "View online", and should go to a page that shows only the message (without automatically opening a reply field).  It is obvious that you can reply online because there is a very clear "reply" link when you view the message online.

Samuel


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

txercoupemuseum.org
 

I respect your expressed opinions and would hope to deserve inclusion among those described in your last sentence.  But we must not let any "pursuit of perfection” blind us to how very good the existing “product” already is.  

There ARE circumstances necessitating financial discrimination.  When Yahoo went into meltdown, the leader of Groups.io quickly understood he couldn’t continue “business as before”.  He acted in a timely manner to secure the funding necessary to successfully ride that tiger.  His organization is unarguably more capable and better “positioned” for the long run as a direct result of his competence.  

Those who take the time to frame and submit a specific “suggestion” may or may not be aware that their perspective is seldom the same as the Groups.io people whose burden it is to glean from what is said precisely what is actually meant; and how difficult (expensive, in a coding sense) this will be to achieve.  The average quality of “suggestions" decreases as overall quantity (and the labor expended dealing with them) increases. 

Reading Donald Rumsfeld enlightened me that (with apologies to any inaccuracy): “There are things we know and things we don’t know.  But there are also things we don’t know we know and things we don’t know we don’t know.”  In such context, yes, most of us “throw our dice” in relative ignorance with the very best of intention(s). 

In the end, whatever is “requested” or “suggested” is ultimately acted upon in some manner or ignored.  It is either “approved” or it is not.  The words used do not change the reality.  

WRB

— 

On Dec 30, 2019, at 3:04 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 12:45 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
Every “feature request” is indistinguishable from a complaint about the existing product to either resolve or ignore.  It is entirely appropriate that practical "feature requests" from PAID groups of reasonable size receive priority.  
For little individual desires, for help/support, and possibly for bug fixing, then yes, I agree that people with premium groups should have priority. But as an owner of a premium group, I think I can legitimately say that I disagree that I and my paying fellow groups should get priority in having our feature suggestions implemented or considered (I am purposely calling them suggestions, not requests). I, and I know that some others here as well, frequently make comments and suggestions based on wanting groups.io to be a good product, not only because we want some particular feature for our own particular groups. Go figure. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

kr402
 

someone making a suggestion is simply that someone making a suggestion,
regardless of the type of group they are in.



moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 12:45 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
Every “feature request” is indistinguishable from a complaint about the existing product to either resolve or ignore.  It is entirely appropriate that practical "feature requests" from PAID groups of reasonable size receive priority.  
For little individual desires, for help/support, and possibly for bug fixing, then yes, I agree that people with premium groups should have priority. But as an owner of a premium group, I think I can legitimately say that I disagree that I and my paying fellow groups should get priority in having our feature suggestions implemented or considered (I am purposely calling them suggestions, not requests). I, and I know that some others here as well, frequently make comments and suggestions based on wanting groups.io to be a good product, not only because we want some particular feature for our own particular groups. Go figure. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

txercoupemuseum.org
 


I think we need to consider some simple facts.  Between group hosting providers NONE seems to have a monopoly on MOST popular “features”.  

Paid group funds pay ALL Groups.io bills and are the sole source of associated salaries/profits.  That means paid groups FINANCIALLY SUPPORT the presence and operational expenses of all unpaid groups at present.

Of all the ideas thrown on the wall before Mark by unsung geniuses, VERY VERY FEW “stick”.  In the majority of cases there is already some way to accomplish almost anything truly necessary with the many tools presently available.  Related efforts of unpaid volunteers do NOT mean that these good people consider their considerable contribution(s) without value.  

People today live in a society so affluent that few perceive the very real difference between a “want” and a “need”.  Because there are NO unpaid group dollars, is it not obvious that feature requests from paid groups ARE “more valid” when apportioning clearly finite resources.    

Every “feature request” is indistinguishable from a complaint about the existing product to either resolve or ignore.  It is entirely appropriate that practical "feature requests" from PAID groups of reasonable size receive priority.   

Perhaps a forum could be established specifically for unpaid groups where their genuine unmet “needs” could be identified and debated SEPARATELY.  If ANY were to result in a specific and collectively agreed “scope of work” to present to Mark, I’m sure he could and would estimate funding necessary to make it happen.  Just as at the post office, faster service costs more.

This would quickly separate the “wheat” from the “chaff”.  We don’t go to the grocery store or the car dealership to convince those there how deserving we are.  We go out into the world and trade our time in some form for money to exchange for what we need AND can afford.
I suggest this path to be the most reasonable and practical “equity” possible between the two types of groups.  

In each case, such “new features” as thus emerge CAN then made available to one and all (or not), as deemed appropriate by management.   

Best!

WRB

— 
 


On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 12:03 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
What do you think?


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 10:14 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
Are requests from paid groups “better” / “more valid” than from unpaid?
That is a very good point and one that occurred to me as well. There can be owners of unpaid groups who've been around a long time and are very familiar with the product and capable of making extremely valuable suggestions based on a deep knowledge and understanding of what is and isn't already there. And on the other hand there can be owners of paid groups (especially for the first year after the yahoo rescue) who are totally new to groups.io and will tend to make less informed suggestions, at least for awhile. And everything in between. There is no correlation between having a premium group and being capable, for whatever reason, of making really useful suggestions.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu