Date   

moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

The fact that in some cases drafts are lost if you use the back button I think is pretty bad, unless a warning is issued, which some sites with that problem do. You don’t expect it in groups.io.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 3:21 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 06:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
However, not using the back button is going to be really cumbersome.
There are plenty of sites where using the back button causes problems, especially e-commerce sites when online payments are being made. For that reason I just right-click the browser tab for the page I'm on, duplicate it to start with and then navigate elsewhere on the new tab. Then I always have the original tab & page to go back to and in the case of Groups.io, I have never lost a Draft message using FF.  I don't see this as a big problem myself.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 06:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
However, not using the back button is going to be really cumbersome.
There are plenty of sites where using the back button causes problems, especially e-commerce sites when online payments are being made. For that reason I just right-click the browser tab for the page I'm on, duplicate it to start with and then navigate elsewhere on the new tab. Then I always have the original tab & page to go back to and in the case of Groups.io, I have never lost a Draft message using FF.  I don't see this as a big problem myself.

Andy


moderated Re: Groups.io Mobile App Update #misc

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 1:35 PM RCardona <genealogy1750@...> wrote:
Has there been any update on when the Groups.io mobile app will transition from testing to active usage?
_

I suggest joining the app subgroup. The app is still being developed. We just rolled out the ability to approve/reject pending messages.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing for. Are you saying that the free plan needs to have more storage, so that we'll get more groups (of the kind that will only use our free plan)? Economically, that may work for a business model based on advertising, where absolute numbers of groups/users are most important. But that's not us. 

Thanks,
Mark

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 1:34 PM billsf9c via groups.io <OOWONBS=Netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
Maybe a better title is;
Losing Ground to #Google.

A treasurer-CoOwner informed me that he wrote IO, suggesting an intermediate step between 1 & 20 Gigs.

He WANTS to contribute to IO, and see it continue, but feels the 1 to 20 Gig jump is excessive. I don't feel it's due to cost, although that must be attached to the issue.

It may be an accounting matter. Accepting under 20$ / month (an option over annual payment,) is probably burdensome. An increment between might be at 5 Gigs, but not allow monthly payments. Maybe no Premium add-ons would be allowed.

IO has 4 levels. That's hard to put on a bell-curve. Even a graph seems unsmooth.

But I hugely fear that despite a comparable sized and active list of 2000, actually TWO, this size, I feel 1 has and 1 is goingnto google because they cannot see that Free will contain them for 4-6 more years.

They see 15 GIGS FREE.

IO is "Good Enough."
But "Perception is Reality."

You gotta compete.
As anoast communications security guy, I watched google and email services. I watched the "memory allowed.per account," almost explode. And things related to that and google that I shant discuss.

Almost NO group will use 5 Gigs or 10.or 15 for decades. Yes, some movie.or photo group will. Block movies.over 5 megs???

There will alwys be that one guy at the all-you-can eat that's a small problem. But the all-you-can-eat is up on a billboard next door to your burger joint.

Consider, with yahoo again poised, what you will lose, permanently, if you wait a month to set an upgraded policy. From my perspective you are a mom'n pop competing with McDonalds. You'll always have us... buy wouldn't you like some of them? I cannot sway groups because members cannot WILL not take time to understand the nuance.

They see 1 and they see 15 and they see $220. And they don't understand. GIVE them 15 Gigs and they won't use them in their lifetime... except that 1 big guy. He is the cost of doing business and he's 1 guy in a hundred... a thousand. Time to go all-in. Don't have 15 G for everyone? You don't order more meat until the fridge is low.

You're Great!
But you also have to COMPETE.

Diesel is great - but it's not easy to find a pump at Joe's Diner is whatever that town was when you were lost, once, 20 years ago - so you bought a gasser. Diesel, all but locked out.because the signs don't SAY diesel available soon. I can think of all.sorts of ways to sell this an an Intro offer and leverage it.

C'mon! Google will be around, but give them a rash, eh? Chafe their dang derrier!

Don't wait a dang month...! A week is enough time to not have to shoot entirely from the hip. Time to play with the big boys... on their turf. (The sloth have a name?)

With great appreciation,
BillSF9c


moderated Groups.io Mobile App Update #misc

RCardona
 

Has there been any update on when the Groups.io mobile app will transition from testing to active usage?


moderated Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

billsf9c
 

Maybe a better title is;
Losing Ground to #Google.

A treasurer-CoOwner informed me that he wrote IO, suggesting an intermediate step between 1 & 20 Gigs.

He WANTS to contribute to IO, and see it continue, but feels the 1 to 20 Gig jump is excessive. I don't feel it's due to cost, although that must be attached to the issue.

It may be an accounting matter. Accepting under 20$ / month (an option over annual payment,) is probably burdensome. An increment between might be at 5 Gigs, but not allow monthly payments. Maybe no Premium add-ons would be allowed.

IO has 4 levels. That's hard to put on a bell-curve. Even a graph seems unsmooth.

But I hugely fear that despite a comparable sized and active list of 2000, actually TWO, this size, I feel 1 has and 1 is goingnto google because they cannot see that Free will contain them for 4-6 more years.

They see 15 GIGS FREE.

IO is "Good Enough."
But "Perception is Reality."

You gotta compete.
As anoast communications security guy, I watched google and email services. I watched the "memory allowed.per account," almost explode. And things related to that and google that I shant discuss.

Almost NO group will use 5 Gigs or 10.or 15 for decades. Yes, some movie.or photo group will. Block movies.over 5 megs???

There will alwys be that one guy at the all-you-can eat that's a small problem. But the all-you-can-eat is up on a billboard next door to your burger joint.

Consider, with yahoo again poised, what you will lose, permanently, if you wait a month to set an upgraded policy. From my perspective you are a mom'n pop competing with McDonalds. You'll always have us... buy wouldn't you like some of them? I cannot sway groups because members cannot WILL not take time to understand the nuance.

They see 1 and they see 15 and they see $220. And they don't understand. GIVE them 15 Gigs and they won't use them in their lifetime... except that 1 big guy. He is the cost of doing business and he's 1 guy in a hundred... a thousand. Time to go all-in. Don't have 15 G for everyone? You don't order more meat until the fridge is low.

You're Great!
But you also have to COMPETE.

Diesel is great - but it's not easy to find a pump at Joe's Diner is whatever that town was when you were lost, once, 20 years ago - so you bought a gasser. Diesel, all but locked out.because the signs don't SAY diesel available soon. I can think of all.sorts of ways to sell this an an Intro offer and leverage it.

C'mon! Google will be around, but give them a rash, eh? Chafe their dang derrier!

Don't wait a dang month...! A week is enough time to not have to shoot entirely from the hip. Time to play with the big boys... on their turf. (The sloth have a name?)

With great appreciation,
BillSF9c


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 12:53 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:
Why don't you use a simple text editor such as Notepad instead of Word?
Shouldn't even have to do that. Let's just hope Mark finds a way to fix the bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Why don't you use a simple text editor such as Notepad instead of Word? No
formatting problems then because there's no formatting.

Jim Fisher

On 20 Oct 2020 at 6:16, J_Catlady wrote:

I did end up having to copy/paste a word doc last night
(which results in formatting issues).


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

The real problem is the inconsistent behavior. If we leave the site entirely, the draft gets saved. And we (users) have become accustomed to that. So when we don't even leave the site and do something as simple as go to another page, and use the back button, who's going to expect that the draft disappears? Not me. Either ditch the whole draft-saving mechanism or fix it so that drafts get saved regardless of what other actions are taken, including innocently using the back button. Users should not have to know that they have to open other windows to make sure their draft is saved. Etc
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Please, don't give Mark any ideas. All of that is cumbersome. We need this fixed. ;)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

SBL webmaster
 

J_Catlady wrote:
Good to know. However, not using the back button is going to be really
cumbersome. Imagine you're writing a long, complex reply, and you have
to go out of your draft several times to look something up on the site.
There should never be a need to leave the draft page to look something up.
All of the major browsers support multiple tabs, so if you need to look
something up, you can either:

- Open a new blank tab; on most browsers, this is Ctrl-T on the keyboard,
or click on the "+" next to the last open tab at the top of the window.

- Open a link on the current page in a new tab; on most browsers, this is
right-click on the link and type "t", or select "Open link in new tab"
in the pop-up menu.

-- Dave Tweed
(long-time lurker)


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 10:12 AM, Duane wrote:
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one
Good to know. However, not using the back button is going to be really cumbersome. Imagine you're writing a long, complex reply, and you have to go out of your draft several times to look something up on the site. It is going to be very unintuitive to have to remember to repeatedly go to the Drafts tab instead of back to where you were. So I hope Mark comes up with one of his whiz-bang solutions soon. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Thanks, Mark, for nailing this down. That’s exactly what happens. I do use Firefox.

 I’ll try to remember to keep two separate windows open on groups.io until you come up with a fix. Not using the back arrow would be really hard. 


On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

Once I even noticed it was going on, I used to write them back and ask them how they were replying  privately within a thread, because we have PM’s disabled in my group and the replies were clearly within the thread. It made no sense that they could even do it. But it turned out they had no clue they were doing it and thought they were posting to the group. The problem gets exponentially worse when people start themselves replying tk the private reply, not even knowing it’s private. Threads upon threads of private conversations can be generated without anybody even being aware, including the psrticipants themselves.

This morning, the new member switched back to using her Mac and her messages are posting again.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Leeni <leeniluvsgroups2@...> wrote:


I will check the activity now to see what email addresses they are using.
 
When I got an email to the owner, I would write the member and tell them to resend it. Then the same thing would happen again. 
 
I will report back my findings. 
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 11:05:52 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

Leeni
 

I will check the activity now to see what email addresses they are using.
 
When I got an email to the owner, I would write the member and tell them to resend it. Then the same thing would happen again. 
 
I will report back my findings. 
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 11:05:52 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

Leeni
 

I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner and not being sent to the group. That isn't good.  
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 10:27:36 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
At the risk of not picking my battles: I have just had to announce to my group for about the fifth time that replies from users with verizon or aol email on a PC don't post to the group. There's another new member with this configuration and her replies were coming privately to me, again completely unknown to the member (and, at first, me). I now have a group sticky, an alert in the welcome message, and an alert in the group guidelines about this, complete with a sad statement that I've been trying to get groups.io to create a workaround but it's unlikely in the near future yada yada. But people don't read or get it. If there could be a workaround to this soon that would be extremely helpful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

At the risk of not picking my battles: I have just had to announce to my group for about the fifth time that replies from users with verizon or aol email on a PC don't post to the group. There's another new member with this configuration and her replies were coming privately to me, again completely unknown to the member (and, at first, me). I now have a group sticky, an alert in the welcome message, and an alert in the group guidelines about this, complete with a sad statement that I've been trying to get groups.io to create a workaround but it's unlikely in the near future yada yada. But people don't read or get it. If there could be a workaround to this soon that would be extremely helpful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

3401 - 3420 of 29680