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moderated Re: Change message-ID when a message is edited #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 10:33 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If there’s any way to fix this without changing the ID, that would be greatly oreferable because, of course, it’s the thing that identifies the message. I wonder what other problems would pop up if the message ID changes every time it’s edited.

To be clear, the message-ID in an outgoing email is not the same as the message identifier that appears in the archive.

From Wikipedia:  "Message-IDs are required to have a specific format which is a subset of an email address and be globally unique. No two different messages must ever have the same Message-ID. If two messages have the same Message-ID, they are assumed to be the same and one version is discarded." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message-ID 

So the question is, do you want all outgoing messages that show the edit to be discarded on the receiving end? That's what the standard is...thankfully, many do not follow it.

The proposal could have some effect on message threading, though. It could be better to treat the edited message as a "reply" to the original. I'll leave such details to the expert.

Regards,
Bruce



moderated Re: Change message-ID when a message is edited #suggestion

 

If there’s any way to fix this without changing the ID, that would be greatly oreferable because, of course, it’s the thing that identifies the message. I wonder what other problems would pop up if the message ID changes every time it’s edited.


On Oct 25, 2020, at 7:07 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

When a message (or poll) is edited, in most cases it is desirable to relay that edit to the group. However, the message-ID field in the outgoing message is left unchanged, causing some mail providers to fail to deliver it. There may be technical reasons that I'm unaware of why this must be so, but delivery of message edits would be more reliable if the message-ID was updated.

Thanks for your consideration,
Bruce

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Change message-ID when a message is edited #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

When a message (or poll) is edited, in most cases it is desirable to relay that edit to the group. However, the message-ID field in the outgoing message is left unchanged, causing some mail providers to fail to deliver it. There may be technical reasons that I'm unaware of why this must be so, but delivery of message edits would be more reliable if the message-ID was updated.

Thanks for your consideration,
Bruce


moderated Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

Diito that. Services have been dropped by more companies than I care to count. And if not dropped, I have seen them transition over into something different. All I can do is evaluate those currently in business and make decisions based on available information. My groups weren't any of those bailing from Yahoo. I came to GIO well before. I have no qualms about moving or disbanding "my" 2 mailing list groups from Google Workgroups should it no longer serve our needs.

I will agree that Mark's ear is alert to those offering input. It has been challenging for me to keep abreast of all the changes to GIO. I am not saying it's bad, but it does keep me busy reading, clarifying, implementating and informing my group members of what gets rolled out! 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group


moderated Compare page error (maybe) #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

The plan comparison page at https://groups.io/static/compare shows that Basic groups have access to the API.

I don't recall any announcement to this effect. What's in error, the page or my memory?

Thanks,
Bruce


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 08:15 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I’ve never seen that kind
typo, never seen that LINE
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

 

I’ve never seen that kind because my group has editing disabled. But if it indicated when editing is allowed, I think it should also stats when it’s disallowed.


On Oct 24, 2020, at 8:12 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 03:45 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Perhaps the group's home page should specify whether or not editing posts is allowed.
Good point; FWIW If any given group does permit editing of messages then there is a line in Group Settings on the Home Page that reads Members can edit their messages. If editing is not enabled then that entry disappears; perhaps Members cannot edit their messages might be better than making no mention of the point whatsoever. Better that than the concept of "a lack of information is actually information".

Chris

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 03:45 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Perhaps the group's home page should specify whether or not editing posts is allowed.
Good point; FWIW If any given group does permit editing of messages then there is a line in Group Settings on the Home Page that reads Members can edit their messages. If editing is not enabled then that entry disappears; perhaps Members cannot edit their messages might be better than making no mention of the point whatsoever. Better that than the concept of "a lack of information is actually information".

Chris


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

 

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 04:58 PM, Andrea Grillini wrote:
I was expecting such a feature should be the same as in the group where I made my first experience. :-)
That's a good point. The seeming inconsistency could be confusing to users. Perhaps the group's home page should specify whether or not editing posts is allowed.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

M K Ramadoss
 

Google has a history of dropping their products.
Let's be ready for a surprise.
GIO if on sound financial footing, is likely to last. My 0.02

MKR

Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:22 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 07:29 AM, Peter Cook wrote:
I wouldn't assume that the same won't happen to Google groups
Or Groups.io for that matter.  The only constant in life is change.

Duane


moderated Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

Duane
 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 07:29 AM, Peter Cook wrote:
I wouldn't assume that the same won't happen to Google groups
Or Groups.io for that matter.  The only constant in life is change.

Duane


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

Andrea Grillini
 

Many thanks, Duane!

I feel more comfortable now. I just recently discovered yahoo groups service is discontinued and groups.io kind of took their place, but I may already say I do like the groups.io interface, especially when there I'm allowed to edit my messages after posting them. :-)

A.


On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 02:04 PM, Duane wrote:
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 05:34 AM, Andrea Grillini wrote:
I arrived at the URL below and I mistook that content for the answer to my question
Since you're not a group owner/mod, you should have been looking in the Members Manual, not the Owners Manual.  The Members Manual does mention that owner/mods can always edit messages, but the manual is written from a member viewpoint.  FYI, if there's something that you're not sure about, such as this, it would be better to ask questions on Group_Help or GMF rather than here on the beta group.  If it turns out to be a real bug, it can then be reported here.

Duane


moderated Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

Peter Cook
 

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 07:43 AM, Sandi D wrote:
Google groups is a known service, it's stable and it's free
Just my $.02 - Years ago we all thought that about Yahoo groups. Google has ended or reduced support for services in the past, so I wouldn't assume that the same won't happen to Google groups.

Pete


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

Duane
 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 05:34 AM, Andrea Grillini wrote:
I arrived at the URL below and I mistook that content for the answer to my question
Since you're not a group owner/mod, you should have been looking in the Members Manual, not the Owners Manual.  The Members Manual does mention that owner/mods can always edit messages, but the manual is written from a member viewpoint.  FYI, if there's something that you're not sure about, such as this, it would be better to ask questions on Group_Help or GMF rather than here on the beta group.  If it turns out to be a real bug, it can then be reported here.

Duane


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

Andrea Grillini
 

With my search, I couldn't get to the proper answer, since I arrived at the URL below and I mistook that content for the answer to my question.

https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-group-topics-and-messages/editing-the-content-of-messages-in-the

I may have been hasty, though I wonder if is there a way to effectively stop hasty people like me sooner, considering the editing subject is hot for any possible newcomer. I guess I discover I could edit afterward just tinkering with the commands available on the interface, and, since for the group I was in that command was available to users, I took it for granted.

However I apologize for the false alarm.

Thanks!


A.


On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 02:07 AM, Duane wrote:
On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 06:58 PM, Andrea Grillini wrote:
Now I'd rather ask to update the help document
This is already in the Members Manual, https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-group-messages/editing-your-own-messages-in-the-group

Duane


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • BUGFIX: In the /topic view, with infinite scroll, some messages would be displayed without the message footer.
  • BUGFIX: Trial premium groups weren't being downgraded to free after the trial was over.
  • SYSADMIN: Added two additional web servers to deal with increased load.
  • CHANGE: Changed what we consider a valid email address to make it more strict and to reject extended unicode characters.

Take care everyone.

Mark


moderated Scroll bar add date and message number #suggestion

Benoît Dumeaux
 

For read more easly the archive


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

Duane
 

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 06:58 PM, Andrea Grillini wrote:
Now I'd rather ask to update the help document
This is already in the Members Manual, https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-group-messages/editing-your-own-messages-in-the-group

Duane


moderated Re: Cannot edit my messages anymore #bug

Andrea Grillini
 

You gave me the clue to figure out what happened exactly.
As far as I can recall, the first group I joined here is Vintage Realistic Shortwave Receivers. I've just checked: there I can still edit my messages.
What probably happened is I was never allowed to edit my messages in other groups I joined afterward, but I was expecting such a feature should be the same as in the group where I made my first experience. :-)
I do understand your point about the risks of letting people edit their messages after they posted them.
I apologize for the choice #bug as a label, though I reckon at the moment I didn't have much of a choice.
Now I'd rather ask to update the help document to specify that editing posted messages is not something users can do anyway, and when they can't then that choice doesn't show up at all in the mentioned menu.

Thanks!


A.


On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:00 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
Ah; I can now get a better view of the problem.

The ability of members to edit posts that have been "published" on a group's web UI and by email to the group's members can be disabled by an owner (or moderator) as one of a group's settings, and I can only conclude that that is what has happened in the group where this problem has arisen. When disabled, the Edit Message tab In the "More" hamburger is not available.

The facility of editing messages once they have been posted has its uses, but it must be used with considerable care because if a message is changed after others have responded to it, it may well be that those responses are to something that is changed in - perhaps even removed from - the original message. The result can then be that the thread of the messages ceases to make any sense at all.

Perhaps the owner / mloderators of a group where you can no longer edit messages once posted has decided that such editing is corrupting the "flow" of whatever the topic is and has thus decided to stop members being able to edit messages that have been sent.

It is not a fault of any sort, simply the change of a setting that has disabled members' ability to edit messages.

Chris


moderated Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

RCardona
 

My hobby group has zero income as well, but we passed the donation hat around and got about 15% of our membership to throw in a couple of bucks each.  They were thrilled to express their appreciation with small donations.  With one donation drive, we actually raised enough for 2 1/2 year of premium membership.  If a membership values the group, there will likely be sufficient donations to cover nominal costs, but leadership needs to make the effort to make something like that happen.  It really doesn't take that much effort to accomplish.  Nonprofits at G-Suite/Workspace may not pay membership costs, but someone is paying for the services and storage. . . whether its from ad space revenue or collections from other paying groups.  In the end, free services tend to go away. . . user beware.

My group really appreciated being able to save our 10+ year history at Yahoo Groups by transitioning to GIO and then utilizing the unique features provided here with GIO premium.  The capacity for storage organization is a HUGE plus for us.  But as you remarked, each group is unique with different needs.  I don't believe Mark is looking for number of groups, but those who want to support his work in building GIO up further.  He certainly provides developer access and input unlike anywhere else and has developed quite a loyal following because of it. 

RCardona

 

On 10/23/20 5:51 PM, Sandi D wrote:
A domain administered free Google Groups has a place in this discussion which billsf9c initiated by comparing the features of a free GIO group to other free groups and forums. I have free GIO groups which, as of now, are grandfathered in but I cannot direct add members.

You are absolutely correct that you get what you pay for. Not all of us have the budget for "the best". (I put GIO Premium in that category.) Some of us need to settle for what we can afford based on a comparison of services that offer the features we need. 

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