Date   

moderated Re: RFE: Some ideas for locking topics #suggestion

ro-esp
 

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 10:59 AM, Samuel Murray wrote:

The notice should have the *same* subject line as the topic
Ideally, *in digests*, the indication "this thread is locked" should appear in the content-list of the digest, so people know the thread is locked before reading the messages or even replying to them


groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Finding posts by a member

Donald Hellen
 

Duane . . .


On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 19:16:16 -0800, "Duane" <txpigeon@...>
wrote:

Many things like this ARE available, but you have to be willing to learn how the site works, just like you do for any other. (YG comes to mind.)
It would be great to have a Boolean search capability to look for:

this AND that BUT NOT other

or

this OR that BUT NOT other

Like what PG Offline did for Yahoo Groups, which had poor search
capabilities.

I'm referring to having it all in one place so that extensive
knowledge of how the site works wouldn't be needed, and the typical
user, a novice to PC stuff, could work with it.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM
https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp


moderated Re: RFE: Some ideas for locking topics #suggestion

 

I agree that the situation is not optimal, but have not taken the time to digest and be able to comment on your specific suggested improvements. I will say that currently, because of the problems you mention, I rarely lock topics. Instead, if a topic is current, I post a message that it is "now closed" and then I put it on moderation. If someone posts after that, I am able to politely reject the message with a private comment that "this topic is closed." Sometimes I can make other suggestions to the person about alternative things they can do (e.g., contact the person privately, start a new thread, etc.).

FYI, in answer to your speculation, the bounce message for a locked topic does include a "reason" ("this topic has been locked by a moderator," or something like that - don't remember the exact verbiage). But even with that, the situation is probably frustrating for people, as you describe. I lock topics now only when they are either very old and no longer active, or in dire situations that have gotten totally out of control, etc. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Finding posts by a member

Bill Hazel
 

Duane,
As my good friend Mork from Orc used to say: "Oh, dummy me"
I had forgotten that I could find all my posts through the subscription menu. I had actually seen the "All messages by this user" link when I was creating my user profile, just hadn't put 2 and 2 together.

What I had tried, in response to this thread, was searching for my name in the message search with no results.

Finding another member isn't nearly as straightforward, at least as far as I can tell.
What steps would I take to find a user in this group named Rony. (Just a random name I picked)
Is there an easy way to do this?

If so, I'm willing to put together a wikipage describing the various processes and add it to the wiki, both here and on the GMF group.


moderated Double/single spaced digest index

debbie
 

It used to be that the digest came with the index single spaced. On December 24, it suddenly became double spaced. I am finding that very inconvenient and would like it to be changed back to single spaced.

Thanks,

Debbie


moderated RFE: Show subject line tags in message+topics list view #suggestion

Samuel Murrayy
 

Hello

I've noticed that when I use the multi-group message list, the subject lines of messages have their groups' subject line tags to show which message is from which group, but when I view the message list for just one group, the subject line tags are not shown.

I realise that subject line tags are not necessary if all messages are from the same group, but still, if someone views or follows messages from multiple groups at roughly the same time, it would be nice to have a visual indicator (apart from the small bit of text indicating the group name when you scroll to the top of the page) which group's messages you're looking at, particularly if there are highly similar groups, sometimes even with overlapping membership.

So, I suggest that the group-specific message list should also display subject line tags. This will help users who are members of more than one list know which list they're looking at.

(There's no need for these subject line tags to be present in "expanded" view -- my RFE is for the messages list view and topics list view only.)

Samuel


moderated RFE: Some ideas for locking topics #suggestion

Samuel Murrayy
 

Hello

When a topic gets locked, it is indicated in at least two ways on the web site (see screenshot attached), and in addition, a moderator can send a final reply to tell everyone that the topic is locked.

This final reply is also somewhat useful for e-mail users, as long as they see the final reply before they reply to any of the other messages in the locked thread.

[However, whether the final message in a topic appears at the very bottom of the thread depends on the e-mail program, and not everyone reads all newly arrived mails before they press SEND on the message that they've been writing.]

I would like to suggest three ways in which it can be made clearer to e-mail users that a topic is locked.

1. Create a member notice called "Locked Topic", so that moderators can save time when writing a "this topic is now locked" message.

2. When a moderator locks a topic, he should be given the option to send a message (including the "locked topic" member notice) to the group that the topic is now locked.

The notice should have the *same* subject line as the topic (so that remains part of the topic), but with [locked] added somewhere in the subject line (before the group name, after the group name, etc.) so that e-mail users can see that there exists a message with the "locked" label in that thread's list of messages.

3. When a moderator responds in a topic, he should have the option to specify "lock topic" before the posts his message, and if he does so, the [locked] label should also be added to the subject line.

(Instead of [locked], one can also use #locked, but that would be inconsistent with how hashtags currently work and might lead some moderators to mistakenly "learn" that they can lock a topic with a hashtag, which is not what I'm suggesting.)

It so happens that I know that "Mark Fletcher" is the list dad for this list, so when I see a reply by Mark, I read it first, but list users do not always know who the moderators are and may not open the moderator's message to discover that he had locked the topic.

I'm not sure if members who senda message to a locked topic get a notification (I didn't, in my tests), but it is disheartening to users to have carefully crafted a well-written, properly researched message, only to discover later that the message disappeared into the ether (or eventually discovering that the topic was locked and that they had wasted their time) -- such users learn the hard way that being quick is better than being considerate.

Samuel


locked Re: Favicon?

 

This topic has run its course. Locking.

Mark


locked Re: Favicon?

Michael Pavan
 

Larry,

On Jan 18, 2020, at 6:31 PM, Laurence Marks <@LarryMarks> wrote:

Michael, Wikipedia is not always an authoritative source.
Agreed, of course.
Having never heard of them, I took a quick look there.
I understand Wikipedia is written by anybody, not necessarily experts - and even experts can be wrong.

• The "danger" is that someone might create a favicon that looks like a padlock and causes them to think the site is secure. You and I would not do that, of course, on our Groups.io website.
You seem to agree that someone, other than you or I, could.

• It would be configurable for each group, of course. If you chose not to configure it for your group, there would be no link, and you would be no less secure than you are today.
I have no objections to them, as long as there was a simple setting to not permit them in my groups.

• There's a concern that a favicon in the root would somehow make it easier for malicious folks to compromise the website. Favicons for groups.io would not likely be implemented that way, of course, They would use the alternate syntax that looks something like this:
<link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://groups.io/g/NC-LTRGs/favicon.png" /> which just gets the bad guy to the group that designed the icon. An even more secure option would be to have all the favicons in one spot, referenced by group name or group number, like this:
<link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://groups.io/i/12345favicon.png" />
This is above my IT competence, but I understand you say that they are indeed a legitimate concern.

• Wikipedia also mentions that the "rel" attribute mentioned above has not been standardized. There's a difference between what W3C accepts and what browsers implement. That's an argument for purists, not realists. W3C deprecated <b> for bold at least a decade ago, recommending the much-longer-to-type <strong> attribute, but every browser still accepts <b>. Same with the open-in-new-tab link attribute target="_blank". W3C says don't use it, but there are billions of web pages that do, so the attribute will be accepted forever..
Again, this is above my IT competence.
I only included this concern in what I quoted as it was in the middle of it, and I didn't want to 'interrupt' the short quote so that it might appear I was manipulating its meaning.

• There's a longstanding criticism that favicons are inefficient because browsers request them on every web page and are hence wasting bandwidth on every site that lacks them. I'm afraid that horse has already left the barn. There is no way you are going to get Chrome, Edge, Firefox, Safari, Opera, Yandex, Brave, et al. to stop checking for favicons.
You seem to confirm this could/should be a concern.

Michael


moderated Re: Finding posts by a member

Duane
 

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 08:24 PM, Bill Hazel wrote:
The only way I can find one of my posts either here or on GMF is to remember what the post was titled (at least a key word) and search through the mass that returns.
In the case of finding your own messages, you click on Subscription in the left menu for the group in question. On your Subscription page, you select the Group Profile button.  On your Group Profile, click View All Messages By This Member.  Once those come up, you can add to the search box the term you're looking for if you remember it, say diner.  If that wasn't it, change diner to restaurant.

On the other hand, if a person had only made one post, they wouldn't need to do anything else after the 3rd click.

Many things like this ARE available, but you have to be willing to learn how the site works, just like you do for any other.  (YG comes to mind.)

Duane


locked Re: Favicon?

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

I think I understand what you are asking for. No more info required.

Thanks.

--
Gerald


locked Re: Favicon?

Laurence Marks <marks@...>
 

Duane wrote: "I have no problem using the GIO (envelope) icon on all tabs."

It might be a good default. And since each tab is also a tooltip, you can "hover" the pointer over the envelopes to see which is which (unless you're using a touchscreen device).

Maybe one of those things where group owners are the best judges of what their groups should do.

I would venture to say that many of the users are members of only one group. Mark probably has that statistic or could generate it in a few keystrokes. For those users, a group-specific icon makes sense.

For people in GMF and Beta and the other spots where function and administration are discussed there are arguments on both sides.
--
Larry Marks


locked Re: Favicon?

Duane
 

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 06:13 PM, Laurence Marks wrote:
A tab with a serif black "W" in a white square (Wikipedia)
The difficulty I can see is that if you have, say, 3 pages open on Wikipedia, you still don't know which one is which, especially if you've got so many that they all squish together.    I sometimes get as many as 30 tabs open, though never when I'm doing any "work", but only when browsing.  I have no problem using the GIO (envelope) icon on all tabs.  I'd probably get more confused by having a different one for each group!

Duane


locked Re: Favicon?

Laurence Marks <marks@...>
 

Gerald, 99% of users do not have the expertise or time to sit around and design favicons for their favorite websites.

But 99% of the users do benefit from favicons designed by the website designers.

And you are free to override them with your own designs if you prefer.



--
Larry Marks


locked Re: Favicon?

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Laurence Marks wrote:
They all rendered automatically from the associated websites. It would be nice if (for example) GMF had a wrench (It helps you fix things), and my group had a tornado or flooding house (my group is concerned with disaster recovery).
Larry,

Sorry, my explanation was not clear. These are the same favicons that also show up on tabs as well as in bookmarks. As I mentioned, you can use an extension to override what the website provides.

Here is an example where I set the website beta.groups.io to one icon and a specific page to a different favicon. This is what shows up in the tabs. I used the "Favicon Changer" extension in Chrome.



 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Finding posts by a member

Bill Hazel
 

As a Member, I can't even figure out a way to find my own messages without finding a message that I wrote.
I belong to this group with 933 members, GMF with 2901 members and our small group of 32.
I post to all.
The only way I can find one of my posts either here or on GMF is to remember what the post was titled (at least a key word) and search through the mass that returns.
This particular thread is pretty active so in search for the word "member", this thread is the 3rd out of 3797, for the word "search" it's 2nd of 1473.
Here's a test for you:
  1. Imagine for a moment you aren't active, more of a lurker, but several months ago you actually chimed in on a subject for the 1st time.
  2. Your group has several hundred members that generate 10 - 20 messages a day
  3. Your memory isn't perfect, you just remember it it had to do with a great restaurant (or was it a diner? Maybe a burger joint?)
  4. The ONLY thing you actually remember about it is that you replied to it and you're hungry.
Now ask yourself:
How can I find my message?
I can't click on "All Messages By This Member" because I can't even find the ONE I did? (Well you could but it's 23 pages down)
Suggestions?

The VAST majority of members are lurkers, the proof is you don't have 933 messages a day.
A good thing to remember when answering these types of questions is the average end user is a novice, we should try to answer in a way that they can understand.


moderated Re: Deleting attachments when out of space #update

Bruce Bowman
 

Mark -- The previously stated, two-week timeline for the auto-deletion of attachments is fast becoming imminent; so I thought it would be a good idea to revisit this now.

-- Can you confirm that the notification to groups above 80% was actually turned on (~Jan 9), such that folks in that situation have received ample warning?
-- On what date/time is the "great attachment purge" actually scheduled to occur (~Jan 21)?
-- What was the final decision regarding the resulting entry[s] in the Activity Log?

Thanks,
Bruce


locked Re: Favicon?

Laurence Marks <marks@...>
 

Gerald Boutin wrote:
I am curious as to how this would be used.

As far as I can tell, GIO pages already have a favicon. For example, I bookmarked the page with your post. Here is how it shows up as in my bookmark manager in Chrome

Gerald, I am referring to tab icons provided by the website you are visiting, not user-defined tabs. For example, right now I have open
  • A blue sliced globe (AT&T-Yahoo mail)
  • A tab with a serif black "W" in a white square (Wikipedia)
  • A tab with an orange circle with a small face in it (Reddit)
  • A tab with a shadowed white circle with a red cross in it (American Red Cross)
  • A tab with a rainbow suitcase in it (eBay)
  • A tab with a white square with rounded corners containing a black lower-case "a" above an orange swoosh (Amazon)
  • A tab with a yellow tag (Best Buy)
  • A tab with a white circle with a rainbow colored "G" (Google)
  • And a couple of unlabelled tabs which are Groups.io
I set NONE of these. They all rendered automatically from the associated websites. It would be nice if (for example) GMF had a wrench (It helps you fix things), and my group had a tornado or flooding house (my group is concerned with disaster recovery).

I right now I have three Chrome instances open. This one has 26 tabs. The others have 16 and 25. With the favicons. I can tell at a glance which tab I want to switch to. It has nothing to do with bookmarks.

Larry

--
Larry Marks


locked Re: Favicon?

Laurence Marks <marks@...>
 

Michael, Wikipedia is not always an authoritative source.
  1. The "danger" is that someone might create a favicon that looks like a padlock and causes them to think the site is secure. You and I would not do that, of course, on our Groups.io website.
  2. It would be configurable for each group, of course. If you chose not to configure it for your group, there would be no link, and you would be no less secure than you are today.
  3. There's a concern that a favicon in the root would somehow make it easier for malicious folks to compromise the website. Favicons for groups.io would not likely be implemented that way, of course, They would use the alternate syntax that looks something like this:
    <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://groups.io/g/NC-LTRGs/favicon.png" /> which just gets the bad guy to the group that designed the icon. An even more secure option would be to have all the favicons in one spot, referenced by group name or group number, like this:
    <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://groups.io/i/12345favicon.png" />
  4. Wikipedia also mentions that the "rel" attribute mentioned above has not been standardized. There's a difference between what W3C accepts and what browsers implement. That's an argument for purists, not realists. W3C deprecated <b> for bold at least a decade ago, recommending the much-longer-to-type <strong> attribute, but every browser still accepts <b>. Same with the open-in-new-tab link attribute target="_blank". W3C says don't use it, but there are billions of web pages that do, so the attribute will be accepted forever..
  5. There's a longstanding criticism that favicons are inefficient because browsers request them on every web page and are hence wasting bandwidth on every site that lacks them. I'm afraid that horse has already left the barn. There is no way you are going to get Chrome, Edge, Firefox, Safari, Opera, Yandex, Brave, et al. to stop checking for favicons.

--
Larry Marks


moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 06:42 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 02:20 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
"Posts to this group require approval from the moderators"
I think this would be a mistake. To my ear, it clearly implies that all posts are moderated (even though you hope people will take it to mean "some posts"). I think it is absolutely fine as is, except for one detail, in both this and the statement about a moderated group: wasn't there a language decision made awhile back to use the term "message" instead of "post"?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I think it is most important for the wording to be technically correct and clear. Users that are going to try to cut corners often don't even bother reading the instructions. They just find the path of least resistance.
 
--
Gerald