Date   

moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

John Pearce
 

It is great that this has been set for a hard bounce.  I hate going through the group one by one to inspect the mail history.  I have to be honest, I'm still not clear on the anomaly you are referring to.  Probably because I see only what appears to be logical to me.  One bounce, one user mail history activity log entry, and one group activity log entry.  Per bounce and continues to log them each bounce, even when a person is already marked as B and the following bounces continue to log either from a bounce probe or maybe a new message from the group.  This seems logical to me that both logs contain an entry.  Updating the user mail history without a log entry once a person is already a B seems to unnecessarily complicate the code required from Mark.  And some people would think, hey, there's something wrong here, there's no entry in the group activity log!  Depends on how your mind works.  As a life long operating systems programmer on large scale IBM computers (since the 70's) I hate to see things complicated for very thin reasons even though they are valid.

J


moderated Missing messages in search #update

 

Hi All,

A change I made to the search indexing system last Thursday in an attempt to speed things up had the unfortunate effect of causing some incoming messages to not be indexed. I don't know how many messages were omitted. I fixed the bug this morning. To fix search, I need to do a re-index.

I am in the middle of upgrading our search software, which will also require a re-index. I hope to complete the upgrade of the code in the next few days. So I'm going to hold off on the re-index (which will take ~12 hours) until we can use the new search software.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

 

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 02:30 PM, JediPirx wrote:
Why did GIO not flag these 10 users/email addresses last year ?
I do not know.
Because the conditions back then for setting a member to "bouncing" were not satisfied. You need either a hard bounce, or at least one soft bounce within every consecutive four consecutive days after the first soft bounce, plus at least four soft bounces total, for the member to be flagged as bouncing. Those are all 554.30 codes in what you posted, and they did not (until the recent bug fix) count as a hard bounce. So you needed other condition. Looking quickly through the dates in your example (and bear in mind I'm looking quickly), it does not seem that the bouncing dates conditions were satisfied.

If the above were to happen today, the member would be set to "bouncing" because 554 now qualifies as a hard bounce and you would not need all those date conditions.


 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

JediPirx
 

I would just like to squeeze in some more data to this topic to
show it is not just related to users with special-notice delivery,
as well as other observations.

For me, the bounce code seems to be working.

Stan/jp/elgio

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Transfer of my group from YG to GIO occurred on Thu 2019/11/14.

In 2019 there were 2 occurrences of multiple bounces : 14 Yahoo
email addresses on Fri 2019/11/15, and 118 Yahoo email addresses
on Wed 2019/11/20. Since then, quiet.

Looking at Admin-->Activity logs last week, 10 users started
bouncing as of Jan 30, 2020. These were triggered initially by
messages I posted followed by bounce probes.

Of the 10 users, 9 have email addresses on yahoo.com and 1 has an
email address on yahoo.co.uk. Basically, all Yahoo. Of the 10 users,
6 have Single-Delivery set, and 4 have Full-Digest-Delivery set.
The oldest account is from 2003-07-03 and the newest is from
2018-06-09

Then looking at the Email Delivery History for each user, multiple
entries were seen dating back to Sat 2019-11-16, just 2 days after
my group arrived in GIO. Here is the Email Delivery History for
one such user, the remaining users are the same.

Why did GIO not flag these 10 users/email addresses last year ?
I do not know. The accounts were already disabled by Yahoo in
2019.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

05:17 Bounce probe mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4032.mail.ne1.yahoo.com

Jan 31 Digest #9 mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4308.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

Jan 23 Digest #8 mta5.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4393.mail.ne1.yahoo.com

Jan 21 Digest #7 mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4390.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

Jan 1 Digest #6 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4222.mail.gq1.yahoo.com

2019-12-28 Digest #5 mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4356.mail.gq1.yahoo.com

2019-12-09 Digest #4 mta5.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4223.mail.ne1.yahoo.com

2019-11-20 Digest #3 mta5.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4312.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

2019-11-19 Digest #2 mta5.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4222.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

2019-11-16 Digest #1 mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error:
dd Sorry, your message to <...>@yahoo.com cannot be delivered.
This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4078.mail.bf1.yahoo.com


moderated Re: Need for Better Quality Photo Viewing #done

epiplan
 

I'm here a bit late but have the same problem and was referred here by GMF.

Brief description: I have resizing turned OFF for now, and did my own resizing, long side = 2500 pixels before upload to Photos folder.

As has been described above, viewing a photo in individual view, image is pretty severely degraded. Clicking the Download button, the download image is exactly as it was uploaded, all the detail is there. I did

In view of the 720x720 discussion, I took my original image and downsampled it to long side=720. I then took small screenshots of the same part of the image; these were from (a) the Download screen, (b) the individual photo view screen and (c) the 720x720 pixel downsample on my local computer.

Comparing (b) and (c), the degraded individual image view has indeed been downsampled to 720x720, shown both by the overall similarly degraded appearance of each, but also counting and comparing the pixellated steps in each, which is pretty clear when looking at corresponding parts of the spectacle frames. Exactly the same number of pixel steps in each. Therefore, pretty certainly 720x720 or close to it.

I show the clips below:

(a) the Download screen at full resolution




(b) the individual photo view screen




(c) the 720x720 pixel downsample on my local computer



Well, that's what I have, what to do now?

Peter


moderated group-activity "is bouncing" vs. "bounced" log entries don't match search criterion "bounced" #bug

 

This is a more accurate rewrite, this time as a bug, of a #suggestion I just wrote about bouncing/bounced log entry mismatches. Here are the actual problems. (I will either delete the previous suggestion or Mark can do that.)

When a member starts bouncing, a group activity log entry is created called "is bouncing." But in the search dropdown of the log, there is only a term "bounced" (no "bouncing") and the term "bounced" returns both. Making matters more confusing, "bounced" activities are not so marked in the group activity log -  when the system internally marks the member as bounced (and adds a red "B"), the log entry created is still "is bouncing."

These mismatches/conflations make it impossible to either use search terms or to search by hand through the group activity log with the goal of distinguishing these two different actions. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

 

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 08:58 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
I think I have seen these anomalous Activity log entries prior to the recent bugfix.
Exactly right. The bug (of multiple "is bouncing" log entries) pre-existed, but I only see it manifested now because of the fact that this special-notice member was finally noted as bouncing because of the 554 finally categorized as a hard bounce. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 08:59 AM, I wrote:
I'm not currently aware of any "anomalies" but I'll have a closer look later; for the moment other off - line activities have to take precedence!
Off - line activities completed (for now!) I have had a more detailed look and now think I have seen the anomalous Activity log entries mentioned; they only seem to arise for a very small number of bouncing members, manifesting as a greater number of recorded bounces than group traffic can account for.

As it happens I do not use the Activity log entries as part of the weeding process, relying on the member's activity and email delivery records as the guiding factors in whether or not to delete them from the group.

Also (FWIW) I think I have seen these anomalous Activity log entries prior to the recent bugfix.

Chris


moderated Re: Bounce handler adds "is bouncing" log entry for bounce from another group, when member already blue B in the group #bug

 

In other words, the subject of this bug should be changed to "Bounce handler adds 'is bouncing' log entry when member already blue B in the group" 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

Duane
 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:52 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
  • INTERNAL: Work on converting to elasticsearch 7.
  • INTERNAL: Optimizations to the change data system that ingests data into the elasticsearch cluster. We were replaying a lot of old LSNs after each restart that we didn't need to.
  • SYSADMIN: Added an additional 6 nodes to the search cluster because searches were taking too long.
There seems to be a large lag in updating the number in the Message History chart, as well as being able to find previously posted messages within at least some groups.  Could these be related?

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: Bounce handler adds "is bouncing" log entry for bounce from another group, when member already blue B in the group #bug

 

After reconnecting with the 554 bug topic and John's original and subsequent messages, I see that the multiple log entries were the result of bounces of the bounce probes themselves, not bounces from other groups. So I'm amending this bug to say that I don't think "is bouncing" log entries should be created in a group once the member is already marked as blue "B" in the group. The email delivery history should stay complete, but there is no reason to log "is bouncing" once that has already occurred. I think the subsequent log entries should either be eliminated (they are confusing/misleading) or changed to read something along the lines of "bounced a message." The current entry (when subsequent to an already existing entry "is bouncing") sounds as if the member's status has changed, when it hasn't.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

 

John,

You are right. There's one 554 for the group guidelines, and three for bounce probes. So the log entries are not, as I formerly suspected, coming from other groups. They are coming from the bounce probes themselves.

So although my bug report still stands in that I don't think separate log entries "is bouncing" should be created once the member is already blue "B," the underlying reason I guessed for the multiples (group guidelines from multiple groups) is incorrect. I am seeing more or less what you are seeing in the email delivery history, except that there are more bounce probes in my member's case, probably because I sent one by hand.

I'll go into my bug report thread and correct this.

Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

 

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 08:27 AM, John Pearce wrote:
Are these from Yahoo
Yes
does is say 554.30 This mailbox is disabled
Yes

So any bounces previous to the fix did not show up in the bouncing member list as the frequency of once a month was not enough to trigger bounce processing.
Exactly, and that's why this is showing up only now. The multiples are probably because it was the first of the month and group guidelines are sent out on that date, mostly as special notices, and she is a special-notice member in my group (and probably the others). 

Then the frequency is reset because there were not enough bounces within a few days.  So they would never have gotten the blue "B" in the first place.  That is the change, that they show up with a blue B now and are placed in actual bounce status

Yes. I am intimately familiar with the bounce handler. All of that is correct, and that's why only now does the member show up (finally) as bouncing, despite month upon month of these bounces. Too much time in between.

I've sent a bug report, which you may have already seen. I think the bug, finally recognized only now because of the "perfect storm" of 554 bug fix and monthly group guidelines, is that the bounce handler should not create a new log entry in a group "is bouncing" if the member is already marked as bouncing there.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

John Pearce
 

Are these from Yahoo and does is say 554.30 This mailbox is disabled?  Remember this bounce code from yahoo indicates that the yahoo account has not been used for at least 1 year.  So any bounces previous to the fix did not show up in the bouncing member list as the frequency of once a month was not enough to trigger bounce processing.  Then the frequency is reset because there were not enough bounces within a few days.  So they would never have gotten the blue "B" in the first place.  That is the change, that they show up with a blue B now and are placed in actual bounce status where before they did not.  You should give us some cut and pastes so we can see what you are seeing.  Here is what I get for a member.  Note on the 1st there are two.  One for the message and one for the bounce probe.  The member activity log and the group activity log both match what you see below.


Feb 4 Bounce probe mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to xyz@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4045.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Feb 1 Bounce probe mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to xyz@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4153.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
Feb 1 [maganak] Group Guidelines mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to xyz@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4277.mail.bf1.yahoo.com


moderated Re: Bounce handler adds "is bouncing" log entry for bounce from another group, when member already blue B in the group #bug

 

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 07:44 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I would guess the latter,
typo, I meant "the former" - but these are guesses upon guesses.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Bounce handler adds "is bouncing" log entry for bounce from another group, when member already blue B in the group #bug

 

After the 554 hard-bounce bug fix, I noticed four consecutive group-activity log entries on the same day (Feb 1) for the same member, with no intervening unbounces for that member. The member's email delivery history showed monthly bounces for the group guidelines, which is sent as a special notice, and she is a special-notice member. Three of the entries were on Feb 1 and the fourth was on Feb 4.

I believe (but am guessing and not 100% sure) that one of the log entries on Feb 1 was from a bounce of my group's guidelines, that the other two entries on Feb 1 were from bounces of group guidelines two other groups she is subscribed to with special-notice-only, and that the bounce on Feb 4 was a bounce of either a special-notice that went out from a fourth group she's in and is subscribed to via special notice, or a bounce of a regular message from a fourth group she's in and subscribed to via individual message. (I would guess the latter, since she only appeared as bouncing at all after the 554 fix.)

If my guesses are correct, the solution is a simple "if" statement that conditions sending of an "xyz is bouncing" log entry to any particular group only if the member is not already categorized as bouncing in that group.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Edit Photo #bug

Duane
 

While helping someone troubleshoot a problem with their group, I added a photo to an existing album (set to Group Access) using my member account.  When I went to edit the photo, it shows the Owner drop down list.  For testing, I changed it to someone else and Updated, then couldn't get ownership back.  The owner had to fix it.  As a further test, I created a Personal Access album and the same thing happens, the Owner list is there.  I thought the Owner box/list was only supposed to be visible to group owner/mods.

As a side effect, some of the email addresses were visible since those people never set a Display Name.

Duane


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

 

The group activity log. That’s where bouncing accounts are logged, even when they’ve bounced a messsge from another group. I’m thinking this bounce-handler bug is showing up now for the first time only because the 554 bug was fixed, which caused one-time special-notice guideline bounced messages to cause accounts to be marked blue B, which causes log entries for every group they’re in to be logged in every other group they’re in. Because all auto-sent guidelines are sent on the 1st of the month, you would now (for the first time, because of the fixed bug) see multiple log entries for a single member on the same day. If this is what happened, the bounce handler bug existed before but was only made manifest since the 554 bug was fixed. If all of this is correct, the bug is thst it creates a log entry that a member is bouncing when the member already has a blue B in the group.


On Feb 5, 2020, at 12:59 AM, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 06:59 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I wonder, Chris, whether you also have some duplicate log entries as well, like my group does for the one bouncing special-notice member.
I'm not currently aware of any "anomalies" but I'll have a closer look later; for the moment other off - line activities have to take precedence!

In the meantime when you say "logged" do you mean in Activity or in the individual member's Email Delivery History?

Chris

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 06:59 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I wonder, Chris, whether you also have some duplicate log entries as well, like my group does for the one bouncing special-notice member.
I'm not currently aware of any "anomalies" but I'll have a closer look later; for the moment other off - line activities have to take precedence!

In the meantime when you say "logged" do you mean in Activity or in the individual member's Email Delivery History?

Chris


moderated Re: A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

 

I wonder now whether the multiple log entries originated from other groups in which the member is *also* bouncing. The guidelines notice goes out on the 1st in every group every member is in. The system logs "x is bouncing" for every message in every group the member is in, according to what I remember.  So it makes sense that if the member is in four groups, four messages bounced on the same day - one for each group's guidelines message (even though only one was from mine). Maybe the guidelines go out at different times of day depending on the time zone? I'm just guessing here.

If this is the issue, I would change the bounce handler so that if the member is already bouncing (i.e., blue B), no further log entries would be triggered for that member (unless, of course, they unbounce in between).
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu