Date   

locked Re: Site updates #changelog

Nightowl >8#
 

Duane wrote:>>Many Thanks to you for taking this on.  I think you've got another hit on your hands.  Please don't push yourself too hard though, we need you!<<

I second that completely. We don't mean to overwhelm you with problems, bugs, suggestions and feedback. Just gather it all at the pace you need to.

Thanks again,

Brenda


locked Re: Special messages

Marlin47
 

On 1/22/2015 9:50 PM, Feathered Leader wrote:

Alternate idea:

Instead of forcing a member to receive mail if he/she chooses No Mail, how about having a place under NO MAIL that requires them to give an e-mail address that works to the owner so that if they need to contact them, they can.

Brenda

_._,_._,_


For the life of me, I still cannot figure out why a group owner would be concerned if a member is on "no mail".

I would vote for making it not possible for an owner to even know if a member is on no mail, I cannot figure out why it is any of the owner's business.

Marlin


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

Nightowl >8#
 

Dan wrote:>>Mark is not recreating Yahoo groups here - he's trying to build something even better. Otherwise there would be no reason to move. Dan<<

True, but if the basic things aren't here for the ones that lost them, there's still no reason to move. So some things are absolute deal-breakers for those who need them, such as photos, databases, and add members. Some things may be different, sure, but that doesn't mean the same features are not needed. It was those features being destroyed  that caused our headaches in the first place.

Brenda


locked Re: Special messages

Nightowl >8#
 

I never liked Special Messages, because a) I always forgot to designate it as one before sending out the mails, or b) I never knew what sort of messages qualified for a Special Message.

But as John wrote, there are uses for them and some people do it. I just make it a point to explain in my own groups, that if you have selected Special Messages only, you have effectively selected "No Mail" in my groups.

Brenda



locked Re: Special messages

Nightowl >8#
 

Alternate idea:

Instead of forcing a member to receive mail if he/she chooses No Mail, how about having a place under NO MAIL that requires them to give an e-mail address that works to the owner so that if they need to contact them, they can.

Brenda


locked Re: Disable archives?

Nightowl >8#
 

If you didn't want to call them Messages, you could call them Discussions.


But I agree, unless Archives is defined as both past and current, it could get confusing for many people.

What was the reason Mark didn't want to call them Messages, do you remember?

Brenda


locked Re: cover photo

Nightowl >8#
 

Shal wrote:>>Possibly add an option to disable the width matching so that something like logo art can be used as the group's image, knowing that it will be flanked with background color but without the danger of it being cropped.<<

Bingo. We need some sort of frame box, or colored background frame that we can position the photo in anywhere, and make it work. I tried to make such a frame on Owlperch but it even stretched the frame.

Making the cover photo much more simpler to put up and take down and switch is a huge requirement for many Yahoo Groups. I hope we can find some sort of compromise where it can be simpler.

Brenda


locked Re: New Subscription Options

Nightowl >8#
 

Shal....

I'm really struggling to understand any of these descriptions. And if I can't understand them, many Yahoo Groups users won't either.

So I have a suggestion:

Give us simple options and advanced options.

Under simple options, use these concepts:

Individual messages
Daily Digest
Special Notices
No Mail

Under Advanced options:

The things you and Mark are describing about muted and followed stuff. That way, people like me who want to collect the messages in e-mail, but read them live on the site, can do it simply, and easily.

I had to have John read both Mark's post and yours on this, and still don't completely understand them. There needs to be a simplified manner, at least at first. Then maybe a help page somewhere to further explain the advanced options.

Brenda










locked Re: New Subscription Options

 

Mark,

Does that make sense? If it does, then I think the current newsubpage
makes sense? Too complicated?
Oh, I see what's missing. In my "precedence" proposal (as opposed to your "exclude/include mode proposal") the description of Following Only - "Every message in threads or hashtags you are following is emailed to you" also needs the phrase ", except threads you've muted."


In other words, I think my proposal is simple to understand, use and implement:

1) Following a thread means its messages always appear in your email. Muting a thread means its messages never appear in your email.

2) Following a hashtag means its messages always appear in your email, unless excluded by (1). Muting a hashtag means its messages never appear in your email, unless included by (1).

3) All messages not excluded by rules (1) and (2) appear in your email if you've selected All Messages. Otherwise only rules (1) and (2) apply.

-- Shal


locked Re: Black Nav. bar

Duane
 

The button is a good compromise. I don't have a smartphone or tablet, so I tend not to think of the small screen much. Hopefully it will work with screen readers. Anyone using one?

Thanks,
Duane


locked Re: New Subscription Options

 

Mark,

Based on your subscription, you either have muted threads & hashtags,
or followed threads & hashtags. You're either excluding or including
things to be delivered to you.
I had imagined one might do both. For example, follow a given hashtag but mute some of the threads that have it. More generally, I had presumed that thread following/muting had priority over hashtags.

Inbox will be what you would get sent to you in email if your Email
Delivery setting was set to Individual Messages (regardless of what
your Email Delivery setting actually is).
And as if your Message Selection were set to "All Messages" (the union of all your groups' Archives)?

If the Inbox is selected by the "Following Only" control it would seem to (needlessly) mirror the Followed tabs. The web-only user still wants (I think) a place with all threads from which to select the ones of future interest.

Does that make sense? If it does, then I think the current newsubpage
makes sense? Too complicated?
I think the concept of distinct exclude and include modes of operation is an unnecessary conceptual complication. And I still think that "Auto Follow Replies" usefully applies also to web-only readers (and hence doesn't belong in a Message Selection option, which I claim ought to be only for email).

So... does that make sense to you?

Or am I the one who's proposing something that will prove too complicated in actual use?

-- Shal


locked Re: Black Nav. bar

 

I generally dislike navbars that never disappear, especially on smaller screens where it takes up real estate. But a scroll to the top button is easy and I agree makes sense. I've added one; let me know if you see any problems. I've also renamed Inbox to Your Inbox.

Thanks,
Mark

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Firefox under W7HP, the box is there all the time, but scrolls off the top of the screen as I scroll down.

Duane








locked Re: Black Nav. bar

Duane
 

On Firefox under W7HP, the box is there all the time, but scrolls off the top of the screen as I scroll down.

Duane


locked Re: New Subscription Options

Frances
 

Hi Mark,

I adjusted the description on my family group home page so that there is a link to Archives. I think having something right there would suit them better. Is there a problem with this?


When I logged out, looked for my group in the directory and clicked on the link on my home page, it required me (properly) to log in.

I guess though I am not happy with the idea of having to do a workaround at this point in Groups.io!

Frances

On Jan 22 15, at 6:08 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

Hi again,

Mark, you said:  When viewing a specific group that you're subscribed to, there will be tabs on the sidebar for muted threads/hashtags, or followed threads/hashtags, allowing you to see what you've muted/followed, and letting you undo those actions. The group archives will always show all the group messages, from which you can mute or follow new things..

Well, I have been thinking that the only bit I don’t care for is the absence of actual posts on the “home page” of each specific group.
Someone who is less confident with the web might be confused when they go to that landing page for their group and they don’t see any messages. They must select “Archive” - perhaps not a particularly useful label.

And I was wondering whether instead of tabs on the side (losing the other links, perhaps?), how about This Subscription in a line with Thread View, etc.

This carries on from Your Subscriptions in the Inbox of Groups.io - same content but group specific. Just a thought. Tidier?

Frances

On Jan 22 15, at 5:38 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

Hi Mark,

I think it does make sense.

I like that I will also be able to see the status of an individual group by the tabs on the side bar. 

Frances

On Jan 22 15, at 12:26 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

I think I've confused myself. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've confused myself. Let's ignore for a minute how the Inbox/Muted Threads/etc tabs actually work on the home page. How should all this work? Here's a proposal:

Based on your subscription, you either have muted threads & hashtags, or followed threads & hashtags. You're either excluding or including things to be delivered to you.

When viewing a specific group that you're subscribed to, there will be tabs on the sidebar for muted threads/hashtags, or followed threads/hashtags, allowing you to see what you've muted/followed, and letting you undo those actions. The group archives will always show all the group messages, from which you can mute or follow new things..

When going to groups.io (aka the home page), there will be tabs for Inbox, Muted Thread, Muted Hashtags, Followed Threads, Followed Hashtags. The Muted and Followed tabs are just aggregations over all your subscriptions. Inbox will be what you would get sent to you in email if your Email Delivery setting was set to Individual Messages (regardless of what your Email Delivery setting actually is).

Does that make sense? If it does, then I think the current newsubpage makes sense? Too complicated?

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> I also put Auto Follow Replies under Following Only, because that's
> the only option that applies to it.

I note that a checkmark there disappears (leaving an empty gray box) when you click "All Messages", and does not reappear when you click "Following Only" again. Same if you click "No Email" and then click "Individual Messages" again.

There's a minor issue that I'd prefer that the prior state be retained when one switches and switches back.

The more major issue is that I think "Auto Follow Replies" is a useful option for members that have selected "Special Notices Only" or "No Email" because they prefer reading messages via the "Followed Threads" tab in their Groups.io Inbox. That's the use case that makes me think it should be broken out as a stand-alone option, unaffected by Email Delivery or Message Selection.

That's assuming the necessary changes are made to the Follow/Mute affordances so that one can manage one's Followed Threads without receiving email.

Unless I've completely misunderstood.

-- Shal









locked Re: New Subscription Options

Frances
 

Hi again,

Mark, you said:  When viewing a specific group that you're subscribed to, there will be tabs on the sidebar for muted threads/hashtags, or followed threads/hashtags, allowing you to see what you've muted/followed, and letting you undo those actions. The group archives will always show all the group messages, from which you can mute or follow new things..

Well, I have been thinking that the only bit I don’t care for is the absence of actual posts on the “home page” of each specific group.
Someone who is less confident with the web might be confused when they go to that landing page for their group and they don’t see any messages. They must select “Archive” - perhaps not a particularly useful label.

And I was wondering whether instead of tabs on the side (losing the other links, perhaps?), how about This Subscription in a line with Thread View, etc.

This carries on from Your Subscriptions in the Inbox of Groups.io - same content but group specific. Just a thought. Tidier?

Frances

On Jan 22 15, at 5:38 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

Hi Mark,

I think it does make sense.

I like that I will also be able to see the status of an individual group by the tabs on the side bar. 

Frances

On Jan 22 15, at 12:26 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

I think I've confused myself. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've confused myself. Let's ignore for a minute how the Inbox/Muted Threads/etc tabs actually work on the home page. How should all this work? Here's a proposal:

Based on your subscription, you either have muted threads & hashtags, or followed threads & hashtags. You're either excluding or including things to be delivered to you.

When viewing a specific group that you're subscribed to, there will be tabs on the sidebar for muted threads/hashtags, or followed threads/hashtags, allowing you to see what you've muted/followed, and letting you undo those actions. The group archives will always show all the group messages, from which you can mute or follow new things..

When going to groups.io (aka the home page), there will be tabs for Inbox, Muted Thread, Muted Hashtags, Followed Threads, Followed Hashtags. The Muted and Followed tabs are just aggregations over all your subscriptions. Inbox will be what you would get sent to you in email if your Email Delivery setting was set to Individual Messages (regardless of what your Email Delivery setting actually is).

Does that make sense? If it does, then I think the current newsubpage makes sense? Too complicated?

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> I also put Auto Follow Replies under Following Only, because that's
> the only option that applies to it.

I note that a checkmark there disappears (leaving an empty gray box) when you click "All Messages", and does not reappear when you click "Following Only" again. Same if you click "No Email" and then click "Individual Messages" again.

There's a minor issue that I'd prefer that the prior state be retained when one switches and switches back.

The more major issue is that I think "Auto Follow Replies" is a useful option for members that have selected "Special Notices Only" or "No Email" because they prefer reading messages via the "Followed Threads" tab in their Groups.io Inbox. That's the use case that makes me think it should be broken out as a stand-alone option, unaffected by Email Delivery or Message Selection.

That's assuming the necessary changes are made to the Follow/Mute affordances so that one can manage one's Followed Threads without receiving email.

Unless I've completely misunderstood.

-- Shal








locked Re: New Subscription Options

Frances
 

Hi Mark,

I think it does make sense.

I like that I will also be able to see the status of an individual group by the tabs on the side bar. 

Frances

On Jan 22 15, at 12:26 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

I think I've confused myself. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've confused myself. Let's ignore for a minute how the Inbox/Muted Threads/etc tabs actually work on the home page. How should all this work? Here's a proposal:

Based on your subscription, you either have muted threads & hashtags, or followed threads & hashtags. You're either excluding or including things to be delivered to you.

When viewing a specific group that you're subscribed to, there will be tabs on the sidebar for muted threads/hashtags, or followed threads/hashtags, allowing you to see what you've muted/followed, and letting you undo those actions. The group archives will always show all the group messages, from which you can mute or follow new things..

When going to groups.io (aka the home page), there will be tabs for Inbox, Muted Thread, Muted Hashtags, Followed Threads, Followed Hashtags. The Muted and Followed tabs are just aggregations over all your subscriptions. Inbox will be what you would get sent to you in email if your Email Delivery setting was set to Individual Messages (regardless of what your Email Delivery setting actually is).

Does that make sense? If it does, then I think the current newsubpage makes sense? Too complicated?

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> I also put Auto Follow Replies under Following Only, because that's
> the only option that applies to it.

I note that a checkmark there disappears (leaving an empty gray box) when you click "All Messages", and does not reappear when you click "Following Only" again. Same if you click "No Email" and then click "Individual Messages" again.

There's a minor issue that I'd prefer that the prior state be retained when one switches and switches back.

The more major issue is that I think "Auto Follow Replies" is a useful option for members that have selected "Special Notices Only" or "No Email" because they prefer reading messages via the "Followed Threads" tab in their Groups.io Inbox. That's the use case that makes me think it should be broken out as a stand-alone option, unaffected by Email Delivery or Message Selection.

That's assuming the necessary changes are made to the Follow/Mute affordances so that one can manage one's Followed Threads without receiving email.

Unless I've completely misunderstood.

-- Shal







locked Re: Black Nav. bar

Frances
 

Hi Duane

When does the black nav bar disappear? It doesn’t in Safari or Firefox on my MacAir.

Frances

On Jan 22 15, at 3:18 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@thetravelzine.com> wrote:

Hi Duane,
Would others like to see the top nav bar stay visible like
I would?
Absolutely!

Mark,
I'd like to request a tweak of the nav bar:
"Your Inbox", right under GROUPS.IO.
As Yahoo Groups never had an Inbox,
it would call attention to it.

About New Subscription Options, you asked:
"Too complicated?"
Maybe I'm just getting old, but so are my members!
My answer is YES, it's too complicated!
Please give us a simpler "option" as the default.

Thanks,
Linda





locked Replying to messages

 

a comment from my husband (who joined my group),

"Don't reckon much of the way 'Reply' moves to the top of the page, so's you can't see your reply box, but that may just be a linux thing.

And hitting return gives me two lines worth of space, not one.

So I have to backspace a line to tidy things up."


locked Re: Black Nav. bar

Linda
 

Hi Duane,
Would others like to see the top nav bar stay visible like
I would?
Absolutely!

Mark,
I'd like to request a tweak of the nav bar:
"Your Inbox", right under GROUPS.IO.
As Yahoo Groups never had an Inbox,
it would call attention to it.

About New Subscription Options, you asked:
"Too complicated?"
Maybe I'm just getting old, but so are my members!
My answer is YES, it's too complicated!
Please give us a simpler "option" as the default.

Thanks,
Linda


locked Black Nav. bar

Duane
 

Would others like to see the top nav bar stay visible like I would? Either that or a button at the bottom of the archive pages (and others?) to take me to the top? I've noticed myself scrolling up and down quite often to use the bar and realized that some would have difficulty doing that. Many times I'll have several tabs open to coordinate things I've seen in various places. Having the bar there all the time would be my preference.

Duane