Date   

locked Re: Special messages

 

On 1/15/2015 8:17 PM, JohnF via GROUPS.IO wrote:
You're assuming special messages are extremely rare, but a group could
make use of them more frequently. Say, a group that produces a weekly
newsletter. Some people just want to get the newsletter each week, and
some want to chat about it.
There is a feature of LSoft that is probably the reason people still
use it when there are free options.

It is the ability to set up specific subjects (on one list, CATCARE,
RESCUE, TAILS, ADMIN and OTHER). People can filter what they want to
see based on the subject. OTHER is an "opt-in" to see what is sent
that has no subject, or a misspelled subject, etc. ADMIN is like
special notices.

It allows you to set up one group instead of having people have to
subscribe to multiple groups. And the owner only has to manage the
one group.

I don't know how hard this is to implement, or if LSoft has a lock
on the use of this - but I would love to be able to set up a group
on an LSoft server just for the Topics option.

If anyone else has experience with LSoft and thinks this is a good
idea - can we put it on the "pie in the sky" to do?

dg


locked Re: Special messages

 

On 1/15/2015 6:24 PM, Marlin47@mchsi.com wrote:

I don't think it is any of the group owner's business how the member has
his setting set.
In case it hasn't been clear - I agree with this. What a person sets
their *own* options to is their business.

It becomes my business under two situations:

1) The listserver sets the person to nomail due to bounces and the
person complains that they are not getting mail (Yahoo and MailMan
do this - if the person complains about not getting mail, then I'd
need to test it. Infinitely preferable to LSoft's automatic
removal, however).

2) The person complains that they are not getting mail - and I need
to explain that they won't if set to nomail. Or the opposite - they
are getting too much email and I need to know they are *not* set to
nomail.

Otherwise - I am a member of a lot of ygroups, and at this moment am
on special notices for all except the ones I moderate/own. Most of
them are related to cat diseases - and I no longer have a cat with
that disease (knock wood), but if it comes back, I want to have
immediate access to the group to refresh my memory...

dg


locked Find Group listing #suggestion

Duane
 

I was playing around this morning and thought of a possible change on the Find Group pages.  It would be helpful to me if it stated whether a group was public or private.  I know it's easy to tell once I go to the groups home page, so this is definitely not an urgent need.


Duane



locked Re: Site updates #changelog

Laurence Taylor
 

On 15 Jan 2015 21:33, Laurence Taylor wrote:
On 15 Jan 2015 09:42, Feathered Leader wrote:
Message Numbers!
Ooooh! Now I see them in the site AND in mail!
I don't see tham at all.
Having said that, on that message I got the message number - and other
information - in the footer. The odd thing is, not all messages have the
footer at all.

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Re: Taglines

Duane
 

I'd like to see a signature configured for each group,probably as part of the Subscription page as Shal said.  I'm on several here already and my preferred sig on my own groups wouldn't make much sense on some of the others.


On a somewhat related item, what's the difference between Full Name and User Name?  When is each used and where/when do they show up?


Duane



locked How does one follow a topic or hashtag?

 

Hmm...

I'm feeling a little dense, like I'm missing something obvious.

Say I join a group and set my Subscription to "First Message Only.
"The first message of every thread is emailed to you, along with all
messages from threads you start. You can decide to receive additional
messages from threads you're interested in.

Ok, so I go browse the Archives and spot a few topics I'm interested in. I don't see a Follow button anywhere. How do I follow them?

I go browse the #HashTags and spot a few of those I'm interested in. How do I follow them?

And what about the "Replies Only" and "No Email" delivery options. Do they preclude me from following topics or #HashTags of interest?

-- Shal


locked Membership Templates #suggestion

 

Mark,

I think a lot of groups would find it handy to be able to establish a "Template" or "Default" for the collection of options on the Membership page for new members. That is, when a new member joins their "Membership" is initialized from the template (or default).

That would include their "Email Delivery" and "Posting Privileges" currently, plus whatever new options are implemented later. Notably, this would supersede the "New Users Moderated" checkbox on the Settings page; new members could be set to any Posting Privilege.

I don't think Role ought to be part of the template; but I'm not entirely sure why not.

Likewise, there would be a template for new moderators, and new owners, each of which applies when a member's role is changed to one of those two (but demoting someone back to Member should not reset the member's options to the Member template). The "Owner" template would include the "Notifications" and "Owner Email" options; the "Moderator" template would have those plus the "Moderator Permissions".

My original thought was that the list of those three templates (member, moderator, owner) would be accessed a "Templates" tab on the Members page, next to the "Members", "Moderators", "Pending Approval" and "Banned" lists. But I could see an argument that they should be accessed from the Settings page instead.

-- Shal


locked Re: Special messages

 

JohnF,

So that would be an example where No Mail and Special Notices would both
be realistic settings for different users.
Clever.

But not necessarily relevant to Groups.io, where the ability to subscribe to #hashtags provides a way to achieve that result which is both more flexible and easier to understand.

-- Shal


locked HTML safety in posted messages

 

dg,

And another FYI - it came through fine to my email - TBird, set up to
read HTML, but only compose in ascii.
Me too.

Mark Fletcher wrote:

Just FYI, the reason the other message doesn't show up correctly in the
archives is that you cut and pasted HTML radio button widgets.
I'm not sure what all the ramifications might be, but would it make sense for the email message bodies passed through also be "sanitized" - stripped of potentially harmful tags - just as the archive copy is?

That could provide a higher degree of confidence for members of Groups.io groups.

-- Shal


locked Re: Special messages

 

You're assuming special messages are extremely rare, but a group could make use of them more frequently.  Say, a group that produces a weekly newsletter.  Some people just want to get the newsletter each week, and some want to chat about it.

  • Users who want everything in mail, the newsletters and the commentary, just subscribe to all mail.
  • Users who just want the newsletter in mail could subscribe to special notices, with the rule that a moderator will always send out the newsletter as a special notice.  Only the newsletters (and really important stuff) get sent as special notices, so those users get what they want.
  • Users who don't want a weekly newsletter in their mail but want to read it online set their accounts to No Mail.

So that would be an example where No Mail and Special Notices would both be realistic settings for different users.

JohnF



locked Re: Special messages

Marlin47
 


Mark, years and years ago, when I was new at running groups, I actually paid attention to who was on "no mail".

Today, I could not possibly care less, even if I tried.

I remember back when I cared, I contacted a few people and asked why they were on no mail, I remember I had one reply that stood out, a guy told me that he was not allowed to use his computer at work for personal things.

So, he would access the web site and read the mail and post from the web site when the boss was away.

He said he could not afford to risk the possibility of getting mail from the group while at work.

I often wondered why he didn't use an online email address but, I figured that was his business, anyway he said that if he had to go to something other than no mail, he would have to leave the group.

He was one of the most active posters.

I suggest leaving the situation to where the individual members make their own choice.

I don't think it is any of the group owner's business how the member has his setting set.

Now, if you absolutely have to do something, make it impossible for the group owner to know if a member is on "no mail", problem solved.

Marlin





On 1/15/2015 7:41 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Shal,

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

"No Mail" is a feature that perennially generates heated commentary on the various Yahoo Groups moderator forums. Some moderators are adamant about preventing members from choosing the option, some members are equally vehement in asserting that messing with the member's delivery choice is a violation of the member's prerogatives.

Personally I think both sides in this argument are a bit foolish.


Thanks for your summary of the arguments. I'm really torn on this. I understand the people that want 'no mail' to mean no mail. I also understand the need from time to time for moderators to get in touch with users. And we make it easy enough for moderators to contact individual users from the website, regardless of their subscription setting.

I'm tempted to make no mail mean no mail except special messages, if for no other reason than it's simpler, and we already have a billion subscription options. If anyone feels very strongly in the other direction about this, please speak up now.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Today's updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site today:

- Fixed a crash bug when accessing integrations page when not subscribed to the group.
- Changed all search icons to be clickable.
- Backend work for special posts.
- When switching between archive message views (single message, list of messages, expanded messages), we remember where you are and what the sort direction is. Also, jumping to an individual message stays in your current message view. Basically, things are much better.

I've seen two instances today where the web site froze up. I have not yet tracked down the bug, but I am on it.

 
Mark


locked Re: Special messages

 

Shal,

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

"No Mail" is a feature that perennially generates heated commentary on the various Yahoo Groups moderator forums. Some moderators are adamant about preventing members from choosing the option, some members are equally vehement in asserting that messing with the member's delivery choice is a violation of the member's prerogatives.

Personally I think both sides in this argument are a bit foolish.


Thanks for your summary of the arguments. I'm really torn on this. I understand the people that want 'no mail' to mean no mail. I also understand the need from time to time for moderators to get in touch with users. And we make it easy enough for moderators to contact individual users from the website, regardless of their subscription setting.

I'm tempted to make no mail mean no mail except special messages, if for no other reason than it's simpler, and we already have a billion subscription options. If anyone feels very strongly in the other direction about this, please speak up now.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Special Messages

 

On 1/15/2015 9:09 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Just FYI, the reason the other message doesn't show up correctly in the
archives is that you cut and pasted HTML radio button widgets.
And another FYI - it came through fine to my email - TBird, set up to
read HTML, but only compose in ascii.

dg


locked Re: Special messages

 

Dano,

He'd reply to on-list comments from that same address with the full
inbox, so there was no way we could get a reply back through to him.
We finally dumped him from the group. He resubscribed - without ever
emptying his mailbox. We finally dropped him a second time.
Were the message archives in that group set to "moderators" or "off"? If not he might have been reading and replying from the group's pages. A full inbox (or otherwise bouncing status on the email address) isn't necessarily a problem from the member's point of view.

That wouldn't apply, of course, if he was email-only (no Yahoo ID listed for his membership).

-- Shal


locked Re: Site updates #changelog

Laurence Taylor
 

On 15 Jan 2015 09:42, Feathered Leader wrote:
Message Numbers!
Ooooh! Now I see them in the site AND in mail!
I don't see tham at all.

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Re: Special Messages

 

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:01 AM, D R Stinson <dano@...> wrote:
Linda - I wonder if Replies Only shouldn't say "Only messages in threads you start OR POST IN are emailed to you." Dano
_._,_._,_
This is the behavior. I'll change the wording.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Special Messages

 

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:14 AM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi,
I don't know why the following showed up only in View Original.  I'll retype it in Plain Text to make sure it gets through.


Just FYI, the reason the other message doesn't show up correctly in the archives is that you cut and pasted HTML radio button widgets. We strip out any input widgets (along with a lot of other stuff) before we display messages to prevent malicious activity.

Mark 


locked Re: Special messages

Frances
 

Hi

I don’t think anyone mentioned this - but Special Messages would be rare. On our travel group, Linda (list-owner) sends out one a year.

Frances

On Jan 15 15, at 11:50 AM, CatWoman <diana@catsandme.net> wrote:

On 1/15/2015 8:32 AM, Jim Fisher wrote:
The system should not be too quick to remove memberships based on messages
bouncing,
That's the issue with YG - they have a bounce list, but
unless a mod or owner checks it regularly - or someone
complains about no longer receiving mail, the email is
effectively set to nomail.

What MailMan does is send out a message the 1st of every
month - just basically a reminder to the person that they
are subbed to the group (a special notice, in effect).
Bounce notices are sent to the owner address and I think
the person is set to nomail.

LSoft sends out an annual probe - but it will remove any
email that bounces more than <X> times (Since I no longer
run any LSoft lists, I can't remember if the value of X
is set by the list owner or the system admin).

What I'd like to see is something between MailMan and
Yahoo - don't wait for the special message - but don't
just stick the email in a bounce list. Send a notice
to the owner that mail to <email> is bouncing.

This may be a place where, depending on the list, you
may want to store a phone number - or have an alternate
email address for members - so you can find out if they
know they are bouncing. We still have issues with this
on a list I own with one member and (presumably) DMARC,
because she gets some messages, but not all.

dg





locked Re: Special messages

 

On 1/15/2015 8:32 AM, Jim Fisher wrote:
The system should not be too quick to remove memberships based on messages
bouncing,
That's the issue with YG - they have a bounce list, but
unless a mod or owner checks it regularly - or someone
complains about no longer receiving mail, the email is
effectively set to nomail.

What MailMan does is send out a message the 1st of every
month - just basically a reminder to the person that they
are subbed to the group (a special notice, in effect).
Bounce notices are sent to the owner address and I think
the person is set to nomail.

LSoft sends out an annual probe - but it will remove any
email that bounces more than <X> times (Since I no longer
run any LSoft lists, I can't remember if the value of X
is set by the list owner or the system admin).

What I'd like to see is something between MailMan and
Yahoo - don't wait for the special message - but don't
just stick the email in a bounce list. Send a notice
to the owner that mail to <email> is bouncing.

This may be a place where, depending on the list, you
may want to store a phone number - or have an alternate
email address for members - so you can find out if they
know they are bouncing. We still have issues with this
on a list I own with one member and (presumably) DMARC,
because she gets some messages, but not all.

dg