Date   

locked Re: Delivery Options

 

On 1/17/2015 4:23 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
If you're set to All Email and mute a thread, you will not see that
thread in your digest.
I'm still not clear on how the Hashtag/Topics will work.

If you opt out of any messages with a specific hashtag,
but it also has hashtags you *are* following, you should
get the message/thread, right? (that's the way LSoft
does it)

Will that also be true of digest - any messages that
only have the undesired hashtag/topic should be left
out of the digest - but if the message has a tag/topic
that you do want as well as the unwanted one, it should
show up in the digest.

(apologies to any of you who have only dealt with Yahoo
and Google Groups - I've worked with several list server
programs, and can see that with the use of the hashtag,
Groups.io can have a functionality that is only available
on a very expensive server - LSoft. This functionality
is probably the only thing that has kept LSoft alive -
I'm not sure how much of what it does is configured by
the SysAdmin, and how much is built in - but on the
cat list that I am most familiar with, it only keeps
3 months of archived messages, and it is purely a mailing
list - no options for photos, files, etc. Those have to
be kept in some other location - and a lot of folks
gravitated to Yahoo because they did keep everything in
one place. So if Mark can add that one bit of functionality
that LSoft has now, with functionality Yahoo *should* have,
and the features it does, or did, have - I can see a lot
of folks jumping on board. Our list has a "let's move to
Yahoo" discussion about once a year).

dg


locked Delivery Options

 

(Moving to a new thread...)

Here are the current delivery options:

- All Email
- First Message Only
- Replies Only
- Special Notices Only
- No Email

You can select one of the above, and that decides which messages you receive. Muting/following threads/hashtags are separate. If you're set to All Email, you can mute threads and you'll never see those. Or if you're set to First Message Only or Replies Only, if you follow a thread, you *will* see all those messages.

The Daily Digest is a checkbox, and is separate from the delivery options. What the digest does is collect any emails you would have been sent, and combines them into one message at night (or every 25 messages, whichever comes first). Say you're on digest. If you're set to All Email and mute a thread, you will not see that thread in your digest. If you're on digest and Replies Only, you'll only see messages in threads you participate in and any other threads that you specifically follow. Digests are customized and different for every person, unlike Y! Groups.

Special Notices are, well, special, in that they are sent immediately and not included in any digests.

Hope this explains things. I know it's a bit confusing, especially since with All Email, you end up muting things you don't want, but with First Message/Replies Only, you end up following things you do want (exclude versus include).

These are a lot of options. Any suggestions for how to make things more clear, or better organized, would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark


On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 3:02 PM, CatWoman <diana@...> wrote:
On 1/17/2015 1:14 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
Does All Mail mean you are getting everything
individually?   If yes, maybe change that to also say as single messages or
something like that.

I agree - especially since all other listerver programs use
"Individual Messages" to mean just that.

I would think that back to what I'd said before - there
are delivery options, and then there are LSoft like "topic"
options - and they should be separate.

Individual Messages or Digest or NoMail or Admin Notifications.

Those are delivery options - and since Admin notifications can
contain information on something affecting the web-group access,
I prefer to use that option instead of NoMail.  With the caveat
that I often have two addresses subscribed, and the second is set
NoMail.

Topic options should be put in a separate file cabinet - it
affects *what* you see, not *how* you see it.  So if I am set
to Individual Messages, but opt to not see #catchat - I get
all messages except #catchat, as separate individual messages
in my email.  If I've chosen Digest, then the Digest would also
hopefully have everything but #catchat.

I don't know how easy that is to code - I do know that is one
place that LSoft fails (and probably is the main reason I do
not like Digest).  If you choose Digest on LSoft, you get
*EVERYTHING*, whether you've subscribed to the topic or not.

Question, however - if you "mute the thread", does it just
refer to the actual subject?  Or to the subject *and* all the
hashtags used by that subject?

Would assume that the hashtags would have to be a setting,
the way you do with LSoft - and the thread refers to whatever
is after the hashtags?

dg






locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

 

On 1/17/2015 1:14 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
Does All Mail mean you are getting everything
individually? If yes, maybe change that to also say as single messages or
something like that.
I agree - especially since all other listerver programs use
"Individual Messages" to mean just that.

I would think that back to what I'd said before - there
are delivery options, and then there are LSoft like "topic"
options - and they should be separate.

Individual Messages or Digest or NoMail or Admin Notifications.

Those are delivery options - and since Admin notifications can
contain information on something affecting the web-group access,
I prefer to use that option instead of NoMail. With the caveat
that I often have two addresses subscribed, and the second is set
NoMail.

Topic options should be put in a separate file cabinet - it
affects *what* you see, not *how* you see it. So if I am set
to Individual Messages, but opt to not see #catchat - I get
all messages except #catchat, as separate individual messages
in my email. If I've chosen Digest, then the Digest would also
hopefully have everything but #catchat.

I don't know how easy that is to code - I do know that is one
place that LSoft fails (and probably is the main reason I do
not like Digest). If you choose Digest on LSoft, you get
*EVERYTHING*, whether you've subscribed to the topic or not.

Question, however - if you "mute the thread", does it just
refer to the actual subject? Or to the subject *and* all the
hashtags used by that subject?

Would assume that the hashtags would have to be a setting,
the way you do with LSoft - and the thread refers to whatever
is after the hashtags?

dg


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

 

Judy,

Does All Mail mean you are getting everything individually?
It means you get every message.

Individually, or in a daily digest, depending on the Daily digest checkbox. Likewise for the other selections.

I haven't actually tested this, but that's the inference I take from the controls and their description.

-- Shal


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

 

Judy - You have to remember that users are not moving to Yahoo again. They're moving to a different group system; one that may have originated from the roots of Yahoo groups, but much changed and improved. They should expect that some things will be different than Yahoo. Mark is not recreating Yahoo groups here - he's trying to build something even better. Otherwise there would be no reason to move. Dano


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

Judy F.
 

Shal, if members are used to Digest where you get all of the messages and
then all of a sudden Digest has a totally different meaning that will cause
a lot of confusion. Does All Mail mean you are getting everything
individually? If yes, maybe change that to also say as single messages or
something like that. Then describe Digest more clearly like from options
above.

All I will be doing is explaining how that works because I'm sure you know
that most people do not read.
Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 4:54 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Special Notices, it is done

Linda,

BTW I still find the placement of the Daily Digest option confusing.
The key is that it is a checkbox, independent of the other choices. This is
not the same as Yahoo Groups, where Digest is the same as "All", but in a
digest. The meaning in Groups.io is that whatever messages you get, as a
result of the other choices, arrive as a digest instead of individually.

-- Shal


locked Re: Find Group listing #suggestion

Duane
 

I checked it out this morning and I think it's perfect now.  I've been looking through the various groups to see if there were any of interest, but didn't want to join any more at the moment.  This way I know whether I should even try to check it out.


We want our groups listed in the directory so that folks can find us using a search, but we only allow members to access the messages.  Possibly interested folks can be anywhere in the world, so we don't always find them through personal contact.  We sometimes post personal information, like phone numbers or addresses to assist others, so private archives are important.


Thanks again,

Duane



locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

Duane
 

Thanks! This is probably the safest way to do things so that members don't get upset. After reading the other comments on this, I can see how it could be abused or not needed for some groups. Duane


locked Re: Bug in the Moderator Activity log

Duane
 

I think that I found a few more things that aren't quite right.


Member Activity

I created an event for testing.  It shows "added event" correctly, but when I deleted it, it shows as deleting a "repeating event" even though there were no repeats.


Moderator Activity

When I approve a message on the site, it shows up as approved via email.  Membership approvals correctly show via web.


Message Activity

All messages are appearing as "sent via email", even when posted from the site.


Thanks,

Duane



locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

 

Linda,

BTW I still find the placement of the Daily Digest option confusing.
The key is that it is a checkbox, independent of the other choices. This is not the same as Yahoo Groups, where Digest is the same as "All", but in a digest. The meaning in Groups.io is that whatever messages you get, as a result of the other choices, arrive as a digest instead of individually.

-- Shal


locked Re: Find Group listing #suggestion

 

Frances,

If there is no special status for "private groups", perhaps showing
up in the directory of groups should be a tick box for the list-owner.
I'd agree with this.

As a general principle I think unrelated effects should have separate controls. In this case, being listed or not in the directory has nothing to do with whether a group's archives are visible to non-members, and has nothing to do with how one becomes a member of the group.

I think that tying together and confounding these separate features under a single name, such as "private" only makes the product less flexible and more confusing. That's one of the many mistakes Yahoo Groups has made in recent years.

-- Shal


locked Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site today:

- Public archives/Private archives/Restricted in search listings
- Group posting now displays error messages if there are hashtag errors
- Group post/reply now checks for empty messages
- Special Notices are now a subscription option


Mark


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

 

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:50 PM, JohnF via GROUPS.IO <user+1242@groups.io> wrote:

Mark, take a look at the description of the Special Notices Only option on the Subscription page.  It is the same as the description of Replies Only.  At least it looks that way to me.  I'm sure that's a quick fix.


Whoops! Fixed, thanks.

MArk 


locked Re: HTML safety in posted messages

 

Mark,

That's an interesting thought but I'm not sure it would improve
anything. At this point, I've got to believe that most(all?) modern
email clients have been hardened against these kinds of attacks.
Except for dinosaurs like me, who insist on using an Email client that hasn't seen an update since 2006 (Eudora Classic). On the other hand, when using its internal HTML rendering it supports so few HTML features (and no scripts at all) that it might be considered hardened. Or perhaps just petrified.

One benefit of having the emails match the archive is just that: the same user experience. But of course the downside is the flip side of that: some group might depend on a feature that is safe (enough) for them, but stripped in the archive.

Oh well, it was just a thought.

-- Shal


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
Congrats on your anniversary! Thanks for all your hard work.

I noticed that the description of the new option was not correct:
"Only messages in threads you start or post in are emailed to you."
(same as above, Replies Only)

BTW I still find the placement of the Daily Digest option confusing.

Thanks,
Linda


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

 

Mark, take a look at the description of the Special Notices Only option on the Subscription page.  It is the same as the description of Replies Only.  At least it looks that way to me.  I'm sure that's a quick fix.


JohnF



locked Re: Special messages

 

On 1/16/2015 5:37 PM, CatWoman wrote:

Or do you have separators? And is there a (drat, forgot the term, been
away from programming too long)
And the memory comes back - escape character...

dg


locked Re: Special messages

 

On 1/16/2015 5:12 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
You can set your group up such that if a hashtag isn't included in the
subject, an error is returned, giving the option to edit the subject
line to include a hashtag without having to retype/resend the message.
You may just give LSoft a run for its money. At one time private folks
could have an LSoft server, but now it's only a few universities, AFAIK,
and a lot of even public places are using MailMan or Lyris (and probably
a few I don't know the name of).

If someone wants to use more than one hashtag/topic (I have to go back
to my cat list since it's the only LSoft list I'm active on these days),
for example #rescue and #catcare and #tails (story of cat coming around
and finally getting trapped and the trip to the vet etc., etc.,), how
are they handled in the subject?

LSoft is RESCUE, CATCARE, TAILS: Finally trapped that kitten factory!

Would it just be #rescue #catcare #tails Finally trapped . .

Or do you have separators? And is there a (drat, forgot the term, been
away from programming too long) symbol you could put in front of a "#"
in the subject so it can be used as a number sign? #rescue Got \#4!
Or just retrain ourselves to use #rescue Got number 4!

Diana


locked Re: Find Group listing #suggestion

 

On 1/16/2015 5:10 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Already available. Groups can be listed or unlisted in the directory.
Their archives can be public or private (if the group is unlisted, the
archives are private).
Great!!!

Love it!

dg


locked Re: Find Group listing #suggestion

Frances
 

Whoops! Sorry. I had forgotten.

I see it now in Settings, Privacy. (I had set mine up properly!)

So “Public Groups” is okay, I guess.
Should there be an extra bit of explanatory text? Unnecessary? Messy?

Frances

On Jan 16 15, at 8:10 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:36 PM, CatWoman <diana@...> wrote:

So, it should be an option to allow a private group to be visible in
searches or not.

 
Already available. Groups can be listed or unlisted in the directory. Their archives can be public or private (if the group is unlisted, the archives are private).

Thanks,
Mark