Date   

locked Re: Delivery Options

Duane
 

One of the members on one of my groups had a problem this morning.  He has selected "No email", and I've verified the setting, but he's still getting all messages.  I would suspect that while Mark was making changes to the delivery options concerning Special Notices that a bug may have crept in.  BTW, I don't have this problem on my account.  I'll check with him again to see if it's still happening.


Duane



locked Re: about contacting the mod of a group

Duane
 

I was testing some things this morning and ran into an unusual situation.  I sent an email to the group owner email address from an unsubscribed email address.  I have that group set so that no emails are forwarded to my (owner) email.  There's a notice in the log that the email was sent, but I can't find any place to see what it is.  Have I overlooked something?


Thanks,

Duane

PS  While attempting to post this reply (a little before 9 am cst), I got several "504 Gateway Time-out" errors, then it finally gave me the "undergoing maintenance" screen with Linus.  Cute kitten!



locked Re: RSVP feature #suggestion

 

This might not be the most important feature right now, but eventually, why not?

This is a feature that we can be pretty sure that people would use. Part of the reason why many groups have switched from mailing lists to Facebook is that Facebook is good at handling events.


locked Delivery Options

Linda
 

Hi,
When I subscribed, despite my long history as a Yahoo group owner, I found the mail options confusing and botched it!
 
I can only imagine the nightmare that's in store if we can't have the option to go with a simplified plan.  Good old KISS is best for older folks. 
 
In my groups, we use subjects, don't need hashtags, and the delete key is fine for unfollowing particular threads. 

We need only a choice of three mail options:
     All messages as single emails
     Digest
     No Mail except Special Notices
 
Mark, I appreciate all the sophisticated programming you've worked on, but I beg  you to make it possible for group owners to opt-in to a simplified version of Groups.io.
 
Thanks,
Linda


locked Re: RSVP feature #suggestion

 

Thanks for that bit of reality, Steve. I see people wanting groups.io to be everything under the sun, when in reality, it just needs to function as a solid list server. Dano


locked Re: Find Group listing #suggestion

Steve Weinberg
 

Well, instead of talking in the dark, tonight I started my own first Groups.io test group

So I agree with Shal. I selected "Not listed in directory, private archives" and that was that.


So fat mostly so good.

Steve

=========================

On Jan 18, 2015, at 2:01 AM, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Steve,

But, since we're not all computer geniuses, I suggest that when a person
creates a private group the default be that the group is not listed in
the public directory of groups and that archives are also private.
I think you already have that. The existing Create A Group page offers a Privacy option with three choices:

Listed in directory, publicly viewable archives
Listed in directory, private archives
Not listed in directory, private archives

I probably would have used two checkboxes rather than a drop-list with three of the four possibilities, but that's because I think that handling one concept at a time is generally easier than compound choices. That is:

|_| Listed in directory
|_| Archives viewable by non-members

To me seems simpler to read and comprehend.

-- Shal


locked Re: Find Group listing #suggestion

 

Steve,

But, since we're not all computer geniuses, I suggest that when a person
creates a private group the default be that the group is not listed in
the public directory of groups and that archives are also private.
I think you already have that. The existing Create A Group page offers a Privacy option with three choices:

Listed in directory, publicly viewable archives
Listed in directory, private archives
Not listed in directory, private archives

I probably would have used two checkboxes rather than a drop-list with three of the four possibilities, but that's because I think that handling one concept at a time is generally easier than compound choices. That is:

|_| Listed in directory
|_| Archives viewable by non-members

To me seems simpler to read and comprehend.

-- Shal


locked Re: Find Group listing #suggestion

Steve Weinberg
 

But, since we're not all computer geniuses, I suggest that when a person creates a private group the default be that the group is not listed in the public directory of groups and that archives are also private.

I have no problem with the group owner having the option then to change these defaults.

Steve

========================================

On Jan 17, 2015, at 2:40 AM, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Frances,

If there is no special status for "private groups", perhaps showing
up in the directory of groups should be a tick box for the list-owner.
I'd agree with this.

As a general principle I think unrelated effects should have separate controls. In this case, being listed or not in the directory has nothing to do with whether a group's archives are visible to non-members, and has nothing to do with how one becomes a member of the group.

I think that tying together and confounding these separate features under a single name, such as "private" only makes the product less flexible and more confusing. That's one of the many mistakes Yahoo Groups has made in recent years.

-- Shal


locked Re: RSVP feature #suggestion

Steve Weinberg
 

Sure!

Groups.io could have a program like Doodle attached for determining best times for meetings or calls

It could have a program like Evite built in for handling invitations to events

It could have a program like FreeConference built in for handling free conference calls

It could have a program like surveymonkey built in for doing surveys

It could have all the functionality of GoogleDocs & Dropbox built in for collaboration and posting docs and photos and videos...

Etc

Etc

Ot it could just be great listserv software.  And leave all the rest for those exiting applications that are NOT also great listserv software

Steve

=============================================


On Jan 17, 2015, at 11:53 PM, dalemonator@... wrote:

Just ran across a situation where it would have been handy to send notice of a calendar event, with an RSVP reply that carries to the event.  In theory, people would just hit reply to the event notification, and that would get them listed under attendees for the event on the group calendar.  I picture this as an optional feature, selected at the time the event is created, perhaps a simple "Request RSVP" checkbox control?

Just another thought for the hopper. 



locked RSVP feature #suggestion

RS
 

Just ran across a situation where it would have been handy to send notice of a calendar event, with an RSVP reply that carries to the event.  In theory, people would just hit reply to the event notification, and that would get them listed under attendees for the event on the group calendar.  I picture this as an optional feature, selected at the time the event is created, perhaps a simple "Request RSVP" checkbox control?

Just another thought for the hopper. 


locked Re: Delivery Options

 

On 1/17/2015 6:43 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
I think - hope - that separating the Message Selection options from the Email Delivery options will make it easier for them as well.
I am more than overwhelmed that Shal and I had the same basic vision of
this.

8-)

dg


locked Re: Delivery Options

Judy F.
 

I agree Shal and knowing Mark, if it can be done he will do it. Just
separating them and adding the different wording makes all the difference.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 9:44 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: RE: [beta] Delivery Options

Judy F.,

I keep going back in my mind to those members that are very senior and
barely know how to turn on a computer, let alone understand hashtags
(I had to look it up and I'm not that senior yet).
I think - hope - that separating the Message Selection options from the
Email Delivery options will make it easier for them as well.

It should be possible for them to select the Email Delivery option they want
and ignore the Message Selection features they don't need or wish to
understand. If All Messages is the default Message Selection then the
Delivery Options work just like Yahoo Groups.

-- Shal


locked Re: Delivery Options

 

Judy F.,

I keep going back in my mind to those members that are very senior and
barely know how to turn on a computer, let alone understand hashtags (I
had to look it up and I'm not that senior yet).
I think - hope - that separating the Message Selection options from the Email Delivery options will make it easier for them as well.

It should be possible for them to select the Email Delivery option they want and ignore the Message Selection features they don't need or wish to understand. If All Messages is the default Message Selection then the Delivery Options work just like Yahoo Groups.

-- Shal


locked Re: Special Notices, it is done

Judy F.
 

Dano, I am well aware that this is not another Yahoo Groups redo and also that things will look and work differently.  I am not asking that things work the same based on the fact that I am a Yahoo groups user.  I only know Yahoo Groups terminology since that is the only social media type site I have ever used.  So it’s only natural that I would use that terminology that I know as an example of what I am talking about.   

 

Thanks,

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: D R Stinson [mailto:dano@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 4:31 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Re: Special Notices, it is done

 

Judy - You have to remember that users are not moving to Yahoo again. They're moving to a different group system; one that may have originated from the roots of Yahoo groups, but much changed and improved. They should expect that some things will be different than Yahoo. Mark is not recreating Yahoo groups here - he's trying to build something even better. Otherwise there would be no reason to move. Dano


locked Re: Delivery Options

Judy F.
 

Shal, I agree with your recommendations, at least until someone comes along
and confuses me again. LOL

I keep going back in my mind to those members that are very senior and
barely know how to turn on a computer, let alone understand hashtags (I had
to look it up and I'm not that senior yet). I think it's great having all
of these options to try to suit a large number of the various groups, but
let's not forget those people that are not that knowledgeable and also those
that are physically or mentally challenged in one way or the other. Things
need to be easy and not confusing. We all keep talking about ease of use,
some of us have never used another group except Yahoo, me for one.

I have said this before, but will say it again, I think this new group is
great and I feel sure it will be a success. Mark has taken on quite a task
and it's amazing how he is updating things as we go.


Thanks.

Judy F.,
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 8:12 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Delivery Options

Mark,

Here are the current delivery options:

- All Email
- First Message Only
- Replies Only
- Special Notices Only
- No Email
...
These are a lot of options. Any suggestions for how to make things
more clear, or better organized, would be appreciated.
In another thread, dg raises a good point:

I would think that back to what I'd said before - there are delivery
options, and then there are LSoft like "topic" options - and they
should be separate.
Perhaps refactoring it a bit could make it easier to understand. See if you
think this makes any more sense of things:

Email Delivery

o Individual Messages

o Daily digest - Group messages together as one email instead of
individually.

o Special Notices Only - Only Special notices from the moderators are
emailed to you.

o No Email - You will receive no emails.

Message Selection

o All Messages - Every message is emailed to you according to your Email
Delivery selection, except threads or hashtags you've muted.

o Following Only - Every message in threads or hashtags you are following
are emailed to you, except threads you've muted. (Special notices from the
moderators are followed).

|_| First Message Also - The first message of every thread is also
emailed to you, except for hashtags you've muted.

|_| Follow Replies - You automatically follow any threads you start or
reply in.

("First Message" is intended to be indented, an option to "Following Only".
"Follow Replies" applies regardless of the Message selection.)


This refactoring loses the case of getting messages from threads you start,
but not threads you replied in (as in the current "First Message Only"
option), but I think that's probably not a loss anyone will miss.

Making the "Follow Replies" a separate option means that it is useful even
for those who prefer to read and post messages via web (using the "Followed
Threads" lists on the web site).

I think thread following or muting threads should take precedence over
hashtags. That is implied above but not explicitly stated.

Special Notices are, well, special, in that they are sent immediately
and not included in any digests.
I think they should probably be included in the digests, as well as the
archives. Belts and suspenders, I know, but it could matter depending on
filters the member may have set up in their email. Also, I think fewer
special cases are better.

-- Shal


locked Re: How does one follow a topic or hashtag?

Frances
 

Ah, just found the Muting controls again - on my list of groups.

Frances

On Jan 17 15, at 7:56 PM, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Mark,

My initial assumption was that people would interact with their groups
through email and through the 'Inbox' view on the Groups.io website,
instead of visiting individual group archives.
Through email is certainly true for me. Apart from moderator duties, I only go to the group's archives when I'm new to a group or to research messages that I may not have kept in an email folder.

When you subscribe to a group, all of the group messages instantly show
up in your Inbox. So, when viewing threads in Inbox view, depending on
your subscription, you'll have either 'Mute This Thread' or 'Follow This
Thread' at the top (you get the same option in the message footers when
emailed to you).
Interesting about the Inbox view. I ignored it largely out of inexperience with Groups.io, I see how that's a valuable way of keeping up with one's groups for those who don't rely on email. I would never have thought of it as a way to research the messages of a group I just joined though - I'd want to be looking at just their messages.

I think affordances for Muting or Following a thread likely should appear wherever one sees a thread - in the Inbox list itself (not just after opening the thread/message), as well as in the lists and opened messages of the group's pages.

And there are separate views for threads you've already muted or
followed, along with muted hashtags, so that you can 'undo' those
operations.
Excellent. It is possible that group- and member-specific versions of those lists ought to appear as tabs of each group's Archives page. I think that will help bring these features "out in the open" - make their utility more discoverable as well as making them easier to understand. Perhaps there labeled "Your Followed Threads" and etc. to make it clear that those are member-specific.

-- Shal






locked Re: How does one follow a topic or hashtag?

Frances
 

Hi Mark,

Muting is fabulous and will appeal to many users, but right now it is a little too complicated. I think you need to show the controls for muting and unmuting on more screens.

I can see “muted threads” in the Inbox.
Not obvious how to unmute them.
So I have to click on the subject line of my muted thread.
And I can unmute the thread.
Okay - works.

But from my specific group I have to wander around.
Go to Archives.
My muted thread does show in Thread View (and it should, I think).
But nothing saying it is muted.
As Shal mentioned, it doesn’t show which of the threads have been muted - not under thread view, message view or expanded message view.

So I click on that message.
Edit thread doesn’t do anything.
I know I saw how to unmute before within the group before.
Giving up!

I will have to go back to the inbox. But I am sure I saw another screen just a few minutes ago that would allow me to unmute!

Frances








A glitch - if you click on Mute This Thread in your email, and it is already muted, you get a popup page that tells you this.
You have a yes / no question - do you want to mute this thread? The answer has to be No, or the window won’t close. It stays muted. Not a biggie, I guess!

On Jan 17 15, at 7:56 PM, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Mark,

My initial assumption was that people would interact with their groups
through email and through the 'Inbox' view on the Groups.io website,
instead of visiting individual group archives.
Through email is certainly true for me. Apart from moderator duties, I only go to the group's archives when I'm new to a group or to research messages that I may not have kept in an email folder.

When you subscribe to a group, all of the group messages instantly show
up in your Inbox. So, when viewing threads in Inbox view, depending on
your subscription, you'll have either 'Mute This Thread' or 'Follow This
Thread' at the top (you get the same option in the message footers when
emailed to you).
Interesting about the Inbox view. I ignored it largely out of inexperience with Groups.io, I see how that's a valuable way of keeping up with one's groups for those who don't rely on email. I would never have thought of it as a way to research the messages of a group I just joined though - I'd want to be looking at just their messages.

I think affordances for Muting or Following a thread likely should appear wherever one sees a thread - in the Inbox list itself (not just after opening the thread/message), as well as in the lists and opened messages of the group's pages.

And there are separate views for threads you've already muted or
followed, along with muted hashtags, so that you can 'undo' those
operations.
Excellent. It is possible that group- and member-specific versions of those lists ought to appear as tabs of each group's Archives page. I think that will help bring these features "out in the open" - make their utility more discoverable as well as making them easier to understand. Perhaps there labeled "Your Followed Threads" and etc. to make it clear that those are member-specific.

-- Shal






locked Re: Delivery Options

 

Mark,

Here are the current delivery options:

- All Email
- First Message Only
- Replies Only
- Special Notices Only
- No Email
...
These are a lot of options. Any suggestions for how to make things more
clear, or better organized, would be appreciated.
In another thread, dg raises a good point:

I would think that back to what I'd said before - there are delivery
options, and then there are LSoft like "topic" options - and they should
be separate.
Perhaps refactoring it a bit could make it easier to understand. See if you think this makes any more sense of things:

Email Delivery

o Individual Messages

o Daily digest - Group messages together as one email instead of individually.

o Special Notices Only - Only Special notices from the moderators are emailed to you.

o No Email - You will receive no emails.

Message Selection

o All Messages - Every message is emailed to you according to your Email Delivery selection, except threads or hashtags you've muted.

o Following Only - Every message in threads or hashtags you are following are emailed to you, except threads you've muted. (Special notices from the moderators are followed).

|_| First Message Also - The first message of every thread is also emailed to you, except for hashtags you've muted.

|_| Follow Replies - You automatically follow any threads you start or reply in.

("First Message" is intended to be indented, an option to "Following Only". "Follow Replies" applies regardless of the Message selection.)


This refactoring loses the case of getting messages from threads you start, but not threads you replied in (as in the current "First Message Only" option), but I think that's probably not a loss anyone will miss.

Making the "Follow Replies" a separate option means that it is useful even for those who prefer to read and post messages via web (using the "Followed Threads" lists on the web site).

I think thread following or muting threads should take precedence over hashtags. That is implied above but not explicitly stated.

Special Notices are, well, special, in that they are sent immediately
and not included in any digests.
I think they should probably be included in the digests, as well as the archives. Belts and suspenders, I know, but it could matter depending on filters the member may have set up in their email. Also, I think fewer special cases are better.

-- Shal


locked Re: Delivery Options

 

Reply on a second thought -

I think you are still mixing two separate concepts -
*what* you see, and *how* you see it.

These are *what* you see:
- All Email
- First Message Only
- Replies Only
- Special Notices Only
But this is a *how* you see it:
- No Email
IMO - Individual Messages, Digest, and No Email go together.

All Messages, First Message, Replies Only, <hashtag options>,
Special Notices Only are *what* you see. Muting or Following
a thread are added functionality in the *what* area.

Only place I'm still torn is the NoMail/Special Notice thing.
Myself - I would want to have people see them if the group
is going to be down (one of my mailing list servers is moving
from California to Oregon next week, so I need to make sure
the mirror group on Google has all the current addresses and
settings), or something like that - but if they really aren't
reading that mail - it's moot anyway, they'll just have to
find that out when they can't even get into the web group.

dg


locked Re: How does one follow a topic or hashtag?

 

Mark,

My initial assumption was that people would interact with their groups
through email and through the 'Inbox' view on the Groups.io website,
instead of visiting individual group archives.
Through email is certainly true for me. Apart from moderator duties, I only go to the group's archives when I'm new to a group or to research messages that I may not have kept in an email folder.

When you subscribe to a group, all of the group messages instantly show
up in your Inbox. So, when viewing threads in Inbox view, depending on
your subscription, you'll have either 'Mute This Thread' or 'Follow This
Thread' at the top (you get the same option in the message footers when
emailed to you).
Interesting about the Inbox view. I ignored it largely out of inexperience with Groups.io, I see how that's a valuable way of keeping up with one's groups for those who don't rely on email. I would never have thought of it as a way to research the messages of a group I just joined though - I'd want to be looking at just their messages.

I think affordances for Muting or Following a thread likely should appear wherever one sees a thread - in the Inbox list itself (not just after opening the thread/message), as well as in the lists and opened messages of the group's pages.

And there are separate views for threads you've already muted or
followed, along with muted hashtags, so that you can 'undo' those
operations.
Excellent. It is possible that group- and member-specific versions of those lists ought to appear as tabs of each group's Archives page. I think that will help bring these features "out in the open" - make their utility more discoverable as well as making them easier to understand. Perhaps there labeled "Your Followed Threads" and etc. to make it clear that those are member-specific.

-- Shal