Date   

locked Re: Daily digest

 

On 3/17/2015 3:31 PM, Shal Farley wrote:


They do? The closest thing I know of to that is the Updates email. It
tells you about activity in any of your groups today, but it excludes
messages and calendar events.
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/updates-email-options-sln2530.html
Yuck - sounds like what AARP decides you want if you prefer to get all
messages via email and have the temerity to not want to visit their
oh-so-special web site. With the added bit that if you *still* don't
visit the web site, they cut you off completely...

Complaints fall on deaf ears.

dg


locked Re: Daily digest

 

For the group: should HTML digests be a separate delivery option from
the current plain text digest?
Yes, but let the default be plain text. I think we're better off having the defaults for settings be the simplest or cleanest option so new members aren't overwhelmed.
Dano


locked Re: Daily digest

Judy F.
 

Duane, I know that, but it does not show this special email I am referring to for members. All you can see is the actual mail delivery option, i.e. digest, individual, no mail, etc. The only place I can see this is on my own email preferences.



Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Duane [mailto:txpigeon@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 6:06 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Re: Daily digest

Judy,

A BIG help here is that an owner (or moderator with permissions) can see (and change) how a members email options are set. That should make it much easier to assist someone having difficulties. Having the group owner be able to set the default digest mode for their groups might help. Then allow the members to change if they want.

Duane


locked Re: Daily digest

Judy F.
 

Sorry Shal, it is everything except messages, but the example still remains the same. It is still hard to determine a problem if there are so many things that the member can change and then a lot of them can't remember doing it.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 6:32 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Daily digest

Judy,

> Example: Yahoo has a feature where you can get a separate email with > all of the various new messages from all of the groups a member > belongs to.

They do? The closest thing I know of to that is the Updates email. It tells you about activity in any of your groups today, but it excludes messages and calendar events.
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/updates-email-options-sln2530.html

> All I ask, is please don't show all of the gibberish that we are > seeing in digests on Yahoo Groups and especially the various symbols > such as % #, etc. which I guess happens when a message is sent from > an email program that is set up for HTML.

The gibberish that shows up in Yahoo Groups digests most frequently at the moment results from a bug in Yahoo Mail. Sometimes when a Yahoo Mail user replies to a message from a Yahoo Group, the text/HTML of their reply looks fine but the text/plain body of their reply includes a block of what appears to be CSS code. And since Yahoo Groups forms the digest from the text/plain parts of messages the gibberish is exposed there, but not in the Messages archive nor (for most recipients) in individual mail.

Which is the long way of saying: it's a Yahoo thing. I don't expect to see it here unless by some misfortune messages from Groups.io might trigger the same bug if you happen to have a member using Yahoo Mail.

There are two other kinds of gibberish to which Yahoo Groups are prone.
One is HTML character entities displayed in a plain text context, the other is UTF-8 characters displayed in an ISO/IEC context or vice-versa.
Two more issues I hope not to bump into at Groups.io.

-- Shal


locked Re: Daily digest

 

Judy,

Example: Yahoo has a feature where you can get a separate email with
all of the various new messages from all of the groups a member
belongs to.
They do? The closest thing I know of to that is the Updates email. It tells you about activity in any of your groups today, but it excludes messages and calendar events.
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/updates-email-options-sln2530.html

All I ask, is please don't show all of the gibberish that we are
seeing in digests on Yahoo Groups and especially the various symbols
such as % #, etc. which I guess happens when a message is sent from
an email program that is set up for HTML.
The gibberish that shows up in Yahoo Groups digests most frequently at the moment results from a bug in Yahoo Mail. Sometimes when a Yahoo Mail user replies to a message from a Yahoo Group, the text/HTML of their reply looks fine but the text/plain body of their reply includes a block of what appears to be CSS code. And since Yahoo Groups forms the digest from the text/plain parts of messages the gibberish is exposed there, but not in the Messages archive nor (for most recipients) in individual mail.

Which is the long way of saying: it's a Yahoo thing. I don't expect to see it here unless by some misfortune messages from Groups.io might trigger the same bug if you happen to have a member using Yahoo Mail.

There are two other kinds of gibberish to which Yahoo Groups are prone. One is HTML character entities displayed in a plain text context, the other is UTF-8 characters displayed in an ISO/IEC context or vice-versa. Two more issues I hope not to bump into at Groups.io.

-- Shal


locked Re: Daily digest

Duane
 

Judy,

A BIG help here is that an owner (or moderator with permissions) can see (and change) how a members email options are set. That should make it much easier to assist someone having difficulties. Having the group owner be able to set the default digest mode for their groups might help. Then allow the members to change if they want.

Duane


locked Re: Daily digest

Judy F.
 

I don't think it should be an option. Things are getting to the point that everything is an option and if we owners/moderators are trying to help someone and can't seem to figure out the problem, then we would have to start asking did you do this option or that option. Half of them wouldn't have any idea what you are talking about or even know how to find it.

Example: Yahoo has a feature where you can get a separate email with all of the various new messages from all of the groups a member belongs to. Now that's great until they decide to not receive messages from a group (no mail) and they continue to get them. We have no way of knowing they signed up for the special message because it isn't tied to mail delivery changes, etc. Until they send us that message, they get mad we get frustrated.

All I ask, is please don't show all of the gibberish that we are seeing in digests on Yahoo Groups and especially the various symbols such as % #, etc. which I guess happens when a message is sent from an email program that is set up for HTML.

Thanks,

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:30 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Daily digest

Hi Adam,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Adam Irgon <adamirgon@gmail.com> wrote:
I rely heavily on the daily digest, and find it to be kind of primitive.
Any plans for html and other beautifiers?
Definitely a possibility. What features would you like to see in an HTML digest? It'd have linking from the table of contents at the top to the messages themselves. Any other features?

For the group: should HTML digests be a separate delivery option from the current plain text digest?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: suggestion for groups.io?

Trish McDonald
 

Maybe searching them by tags or key words? Give list owners the ability to add tags? 

I know Yahoo's group category levels got so convoluted as it grew it became impossible to drill down to the appropriate category easily. I think letting list owners provide searchable keywords/tags for their group might make individual groups easier to find.

Trish




On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 9:39 AM, emily <fallenangel09@...> wrote:
hi.

i'm hoping it's okay to suggest something here, and i doubt this can happen, given how the groups.io service is all ready set up to display the list of groups, but i'll ask anyway...

i was wondering if we could have sub categories for the groups.

currently, the groups are displayed in alphabettical order, and also you can search for them by keyword.

but i think it would be an awsome eddition.

their's all ready newest, and most popular (how i found this group to begin with), so perhaps a category list can go under those 2 links

what are your thoughts

emily






locked Re: Digest layout

 

Ronaldo,

Is there any reason to not do it for single messages?
In single messages I don't have to scroll past the trailing quotes, I
just move on to the next message. So there's no benefit to justify the
risk that the automation might erroneously delete content of value.

Disagree. We don't read random snippets. People should include key
parts of quote. Let's not encourage wrong habits.
Vehemently disagree. I'll never teach the members of The-Tech-Zone "proper" quoting. Not even if I were their moderator. My impression is that many of the members there are vision impaired or otherwise limited in what they /can/ do to in-line quote.

It makes no sense to deprive me (and the other members of the group) of a useful digest just because the majority of members of that group can't or won't quote in a manner that you or I might prefer.

-- Shal


locked Re: suggestion for groups.io?

Duane
 

After thinking about it a bit, I like using multiple "unrestricted" tag type identifications better than categories. If we wanted to, we could assign something nonsensical, say "oekftu859" that would only show our groups. At the same time, we could use terms that should be readily findable in a search that, hopefully, describe our groups as others could be expected to think of them. We could include general terms related to our groups, along with specific items that might narrow it down. I do think there should be some sort of limit on each group (10 or 20 at most ?) so that it wouldn't end up like some web sites that include every imaginable word just so they show up in searches. I'm not sure what the maximum length of each string should be. Probably easier to implement this than categories/sub-topics.

When I was on Yahoo, the biggest problem with categories and sub-topics is that often there weren't the exact ones we needed.

Duane


locked Re: Digest layout

Laurence Taylor
 

Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Put a blank line between subjects in the list of messages, so it is
easier to read what subjects are there.
Good idea. This will be added today.
Wonderful! Thank you very much.


On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 2:13 PM, <cshenk1@cox.net> wrote:

One thing I like in the Yahoo digest is the messages are linked so I can
slip down to one of interest without scrolling through the rest. Rather
nice, expecially in a group where folks do not trim old quotes out.
That would require HTML digests. Currently the digests are plain text.
Definitely doable, I'll put it on the list for consideration.
As a subscriber option, I hope!

In the meantime, I've just added code will strip quoted replies within
digests. For each message that's in the digest, if there is exactly
one quoted part, and it appears at the end of the message, it will be
removed. It should help.
What a good idea! Though perhaps add a note to the effect of "quoted
text removed by system" to stop people complaining about people not quoting!

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Re: suggestion for groups.io?

 

Hi Emily,

Welcome to the group. And thanks for the suggestion.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 6:39 AM, emily <fallenangel09@mail.com> wrote:

i was wondering if we could have sub categories for the groups.
I haven't focused on organization yet, because it hasn't really been a
problem with the number of groups we currently host. It'll become more
of an issue as we grow, of course.

I'm conflicted on categories. They can help some with discovery, but
coming up with a category system is always a problem. We've talked
here before about adding tags to group descriptions instead of
categories, and I think that probably is a more flexible, more organic
and ultimately more scalable solution. But again, I haven't really
thought much about it because it hasn't been an issue yet.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Daily digest

Duane
 

I don't usually get messages via email, preferring to use the web, though I've got one account set up to get them so I can see what is referred to. When I did use email (on Yahoo), I always went with plain text. There are some of us that still don't have flat fee unlimited broadband, so message size becomes important. If it were me, I'd make HTML digest a separate option. I'll leave all the other feature suggestions to those that use email regularly.

Thanks,
Duane


locked Re: Daily digest

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
Since some folks always read in Plain Text, the option to select one or the other is probably best - so you can control what they receive.

Thanks,
Linda


For the group: should HTML digests be a separate delivery
option from
the current plain text digest?


locked Re: Daily digest

 

Hi Adam,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Adam Irgon <adamirgon@gmail.com> wrote:
I rely heavily on the daily digest, and find it to be kind of primitive.
Any plans for html and other beautifiers?
Definitely a possibility. What features would you like to see in an
HTML digest? It'd have linking from the table of contents at the top
to the messages themselves. Any other features?

For the group: should HTML digests be a separate delivery option from
the current plain text digest?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Digest layout

 

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Duane <txpigeon@gmail.com> wrote:

Different groups have different requirements. Some prefer minimal quoting, some prefer (even allow) nothing, and some are in between. Some want top posting, others bottom, and inline is quite useful at times. In this situation, the digest, minimum snippet should work fine since there will normally be several messages for each thread. As Shal pointed out above though, there can be exceptions that almost become the rule. I'm sure Mark is having fun with all the possibilities. ;>)
Heh. I remember when I first started working on ONElist back in the
day, someone said something to the effect, 'mailing list software is
simple and easy, why are you wasting your time with that?'.

I've changed it so that if we think the message is not a reply to
another message, we don't try to strip any quoted material. That's the
easy part.

For leaving a bit of the replied to message, I'll want to experiment a bit.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Remaining logo designs

Duane
 

Of the finalists, I like # 10, 44, and 57 the most, with some slight mods. On #10, I'd make the "io" a dark orange so the design incorporates all the colors. On #57, I think a black outline/border, white background, and black letters would allow for better scaling. On #44, I'd change the envelope area to black (without the orange flap) and make the blue lighter (as in #45) on "Groups." Any should work as a font icon in b&w if the lettering is removed. If I had to pick one as is, I'd go with #44, though #10 would be a close second.

Duane


locked Re: Digest layout

Duane
 

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 02:40 am, ro-esp <ro-esp@dds.nl> wrote:


That's why people should http://www.learn.to/quote...

Perhaps rather than removing the entire quote, you could leave behind a
snippet, similar to the snippet shown in the Messages lists.
Disagree. We don't read random snippets. People should include key parts of
quote. Let's not encourage wrong habits.

groetjes, Ronaldo
Different groups have different requirements. Some prefer minimal quoting, some prefer (even allow) nothing, and some are in between. Some want top posting, others bottom, and inline is quite useful at times. In this situation, the digest, minimum snippet should work fine since there will normally be several messages for each thread. As Shal pointed out above though, there can be exceptions that almost become the rule. I'm sure Mark is having fun with all the possibilities. ;>)

Duane


locked suggestion for groups.io?

emily <fallenangel09@...>
 

hi.

i'm hoping it's okay to suggest something here, and i doubt this can happen, given how the groups.io service is all ready set up to display the list of groups, but i'll ask anyway...

i was wondering if we could have sub categories for the groups.

currently, the groups are displayed in alphabettical order, and also you can search for them by keyword.

but i think it would be an awsome eddition.

their's all ready newest, and most popular (how i found this group to begin with), so perhaps a category list can go under those 2 links

what are your thoughts

emily


locked Daily digest

Adam Irgon <adamirgon@...>
 

I rely heavily on the daily digest,  and find it to be kind of primitive. Any plans for html and other beautifiers?