Date   

locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

Judy F.
 

Thanks Shal, but I guess what I'm asking is what are they? Are they the FS,
SOLD, ISO, OFFER, etc. that we are talking about?

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:58 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: RE: [beta] Re: Issues with thread renaming

Judy,

Hi Shal, don't based everything on the Freecycle group and their
various subject titles.
I quite agree, I was only using those HashTags as examples.

The beauty of leveraging Groups.io's HashTag mechanism is that each group
defines and manages its own hashtags.

Since I'm not really sure what a hashtag is, I'm not sure if it is
something we need so hopefully it will be an option.
I haven't used HashTags extensively myself, but I see a number of ways in
which they could be quite useful in certain types of groups. Like this
example of Freecycle, Freegle, or Buy/Sell groups. And I try to remember to
use them when appropriate here in Beta.

In each group's Settings page there is a checkbox for "Only Moderators Can
Create Hashtags". If you check that, and then never create any, then
HashTags won't be available to your group members. Doing that wouldn't cause
any problems, it would just be a feature your group doesn't use.

-- Shal


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

 

Judy,

Hi Shal, don't based everything on the Freecycle group and their various
subject titles.
I quite agree, I was only using those HashTags as examples.

The beauty of leveraging Groups.io's HashTag mechanism is that each group defines and manages its own hashtags.

Since I'm not really sure what a hashtag is, I'm not sure if it is
something we need so hopefully it will be an option.
I haven't used HashTags extensively myself, but I see a number of ways in which they could be quite useful in certain types of groups. Like this example of Freecycle, Freegle, or Buy/Sell groups. And I try to remember to use them when appropriate here in Beta.

In each group's Settings page there is a checkbox for "Only Moderators Can Create Hashtags". If you check that, and then never create any, then HashTags won't be available to your group members. Doing that wouldn't cause any problems, it would just be a feature your group doesn't use.

-- Shal


locked Re: Group home page information

 

Frances,

I think it would be better if top posters weren't shown to people who
are not members of private groups. Especially since real names (not
screen names) are shown.
I concur. If the group's messages are not shown to non-members, then neither should the top poster's names be revealed.

-- Shal


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

Judy F.
 

Hi Shal, don't based everything on the Freecycle group and their various
subject titles.

The ads for the buying and selling group have options such as FS, SOLD, ISO
and when the seller uses one of these, they would have something like FS:
Janome embroidery machine. Then when it is sold, of course it would be
SOLD: Janome embroidery machine along with information in the body like
thanks to those that asked, etc.

Since I'm not really sure what a hashtag is, I'm not sure if it is something
we need so hopefully it will be an option.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:25 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Issues with thread renaming

Carol & Mark,

This might be the hook that allows correctly typing an 'OFFER' to a
'TAKEN' if the taken isn't an exact match in subject line. Has
potential for us Freecycle folks.
This might be done with a slight change to the HashTag mechanism in
Groups.io.

If the subject line contained #OFFER or #TAKEN, and those hashtags could
somehow be defined as related tags so that messages with either tag (or any
tag in the related set) were treated as if they were in the same thread,
then each offer and its corresponding taken message would naturally group as
the same thread. Same idea for the WANTED/RECEIVED pair.

In the Messages lists (and the opened thread/message) perhaps the union of
the tags (#OFFER only, until the #TAKEN is posted, then both) should be
shown as the Subject line.

Er, Mark, shouldn't hashtags show in Message View and Expanded Message View
as well as Thread View? They don't seem to now.

This would have the further property of allowing email members to follow
only the #OFFER and #WANTED tags, and not be bothered with the others. If
they want to know the status then they need only click on the "View this
message" link in the message footer and see if there's a #TAKEN or #RECEIVED
in that thread. Members who read the group's web pages would have it even
easier, as the hashtags are already shown in the Thread View list.

If the OP wants to post the #TAKEN notice via the group's web pages he/she
would need a way to add the #TAKEN hashtag. Whether that would be a part of
the Reply mechanism or some other affordance I'm not sure.

If the #OFFER had a longer keep duration, and the #TAKEN tag had a shorter
one, and the first expiration deletes the thread, that would provide a nice
automated clean-up of the group's archives. Each group could set its own
policy for how long #OFFERs are retained, and items that are #TAKEN could be
taken down promptly.

-- Shal


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

 

Carol & Mark,

This might be the hook that allows correctly typing an 'OFFER' to a
'TAKEN' if the taken isn't an exact match in subject line. Has
potential for us Freecycle folks.
This might be done with a slight change to the HashTag mechanism in Groups.io.

If the subject line contained #OFFER or #TAKEN, and those hashtags could somehow be defined as related tags so that messages with either tag (or any tag in the related set) were treated as if they were in the same thread, then each offer and its corresponding taken message would naturally group as the same thread. Same idea for the WANTED/RECEIVED pair.

In the Messages lists (and the opened thread/message) perhaps the union of the tags (#OFFER only, until the #TAKEN is posted, then both) should be shown as the Subject line.

Er, Mark, shouldn't hashtags show in Message View and Expanded Message View as well as Thread View? They don't seem to now.

This would have the further property of allowing email members to follow only the #OFFER and #WANTED tags, and not be bothered with the others. If they want to know the status then they need only click on the "View this message" link in the message footer and see if there's a #TAKEN or #RECEIVED in that thread. Members who read the group's web pages would have it even easier, as the hashtags are already shown in the Thread View list.

If the OP wants to post the #TAKEN notice via the group's web pages he/she would need a way to add the #TAKEN hashtag. Whether that would be a part of the Reply mechanism or some other affordance I'm not sure.

If the #OFFER had a longer keep duration, and the #TAKEN tag had a shorter one, and the first expiration deletes the thread, that would provide a nice automated clean-up of the group's archives. Each group could set its own policy for how long #OFFERs are retained, and items that are #TAKEN could be taken down promptly.

-- Shal


locked Re: a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

Steph <hsrsp@...>
 

Not a problem.
The people that use the phone for their mail call into a voice mail system called Phil More or use a free email reading service called Voice on the Go. And they are limited of what they can and cannot do.

And I would pay for the groups upgrade so that I can get the add members feature but around here money is so tight.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Shal Farley" <shal@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 5:27 PM
To: <beta@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [beta] a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

Steph,

Thanks for the help, since I have people who can only access their email
via the phone, trying to get them successfully in.
The invite should still work, but I'll admit I haven't tried it. I've got Gmail on an Android, plus Earthlink and Yahoo Mail I could access via the Chrome browser on the phone.

I could test one or more of those for you if you'd like, but the trouble is that they all already have Groups.io accounts connected to them; so that wouldn't actually test the experience of someone totally new to Groups.io. I'd have to create some new email accounts to do that. I'm game if you think it would help you. If most of your would-be members are on iPhone though, I don't have that to test.

-- Shal




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locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

 

Mark,

Working on it. Splitting a thread is almost ready. Combining two threads
will be trickier, if for no other reason than figuring out a good user
interface for how to do that.
A cut/paste type metaphor might be simplest and most familiar to people. The moderator navigates to the thread they want to move and operates some affordance to "pick up" this thread, then navigates to the target thread and operates some affordance to "paste" the first thread onto this one. If the moderator doesn't complete the operation before session end then nothing happens (the first thread is unchanged).

A drag 'n drop metaphor might also be useful, but that assumes that the moderator is comfortable navigating two browser windows (or tabs) and that your code can communicate across them. Both of those assumptions seem more advanced.

-- Shal


locked Re: a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

 

Steph,

Thanks for the help, since I have people who can only access their email
via the phone, trying to get them successfully in.
The invite should still work, but I'll admit I haven't tried it. I've got Gmail on an Android, plus Earthlink and Yahoo Mail I could access via the Chrome browser on the phone.

I could test one or more of those for you if you'd like, but the trouble is that they all already have Groups.io accounts connected to them; so that wouldn't actually test the experience of someone totally new to Groups.io. I'd have to create some new email accounts to do that. I'm game if you think it would help you. If most of your would-be members are on iPhone though, I don't have that to test.

-- Shal


locked Re: Somewhat OT: Download Y! Group Messages

 

Mark,

Nothing was on TV last night so I decided to write a Chrome app to
download Y! Group messages. I put it up at the yahoogroupedia, here:
[rubbing evil-mastermind hands together] Mua-ha-ha-ha!

It's based on the Chrome app to download member lists. It's not very
user friendly, and Yahoo may rate limit downloads, but it seems to work
for me. Feel free to tell others about it.
The experience with PG Offline, in classic groups, was that too much activity would get your account or IP address (I'm not sure which) blocked for a few hours; access to groups would give you an error page (999) while you were blocked. To cope with that PG Offline had a tunable parameter for slowing down the access.

I first tried it in my test group (680 messages) leaving the Start Num and End Num fields blank. Contrary to expectation that downloaded a single message (#1). Maybe it is good that it didn't try for all of them, as I thought it might.

I next tried setting them to 1 to 100, which worked, 101 to 200 worked, and so on. Until 601 to 700 - which kept on counting towards infinity. I let it go a few thousand then in order to stop it I changed the End Num to 680, clicked Download again and then it stopped and lit up the Save, which worked. Rather inconvenient having to manually adjust the numbers and get the final correct.

I didn't run into any rate limit problems that way, but I'll try again with bigger bites and see what happens.

If you'd rather not have discussion of this message exporter in beta, or would rather not hear about it at all, let me know. I understand that it is just a toy built on a lark, and not a supported program.

-- Shal


locked Re: a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

 

On 2/19/2015 12:21 PM, Jim Poston wrote:
As for the other side, have you tried to Add Members at YahooGroups
lately? As Shal pointed out, they've taken away that feature, for fear of
spammers taking advantage.
Especially when I tried to create a list for a group of
folks to talk about a monthly lunch. Biggest issue was
the list was a normal list of people - and responders
would forget "reply all" (including me), so I said I'd
set up a list.

You can't direct add, and a lot of the folks had Yahoo
addresses with "do not allow invites".

I gave up.

It's great that groups.io even offers the feature.
Yep - and I agree - there are some things I will pay
for. Like my own personal domain.

dg


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

cshenk1@...
 

Hi Mark and thank you.

I can see how to quote here now. Oddly the digest had the other copies of my message really jumbled up.

For freecycles, in basic they are a 'keep it green' where people locally offer things they do not need but are too good to toss out. They get posted to locals and if someone ants it, they respond back privately. You can also ask for stuff and people reply back privately if they have it. Main difference is it all has to be free (not the same as the selling groups like the BST here).

There's as with any larger block group some politics to it. This very issue is why many may want to at least dual home a group here as they check it out.

In the USA, the Freecycle.org owner tried to pretty much take over the yahoogroups owners (which Yahoo now ignores after they lost in court in the USA). It's a non-issue but a search will be confusing at first about that. Probably more pertinent is as a block when Neo came in and things were not there, we moved and shaped what we needed as a block fast and it got fixed. They just needed to know what we wanted. Most of that, seems to already *be* here.

The modtools tie in is we can easily traffic 1,000 messages a month and have to be able to moderate based on rules. ModTools allows those features (but is used for other types of groups as well). An example is we normally won't take a person off moderation until after they have posted some locally defined number of OFFER posts. ModTools counts them per user for us. Some need to control how many WANTED posts are made per month so ModTools counts those per user too. Other frills we need. Subject lines in order to make that work, have to start with a specific keyword and the Freecycle folks do all that training with ModTools allowing us to reject with a variety of crafted pre-responses we make up on our own.

I do not personally think it's worth your time to make your own version. Freecycle groups by and large are happy to pay a nominal 5$ a year for each group they use it with (I have 7, only 2 are freecycles and 1 café are on modtools). The more value for you would be in seeing if you can tie to ModTools (free I am sure) like TrashNothing has and allow it to interface a dual homed site so we can test.

If this is of interest, we can ask Ed to make default OFF until one of us clicks 'turn that on' and I'd be happy to be a test bed. That way all that happens on your end if fed traffic via a 3rd party tool by those who ask for it as they test it out. In fact, Ed could hard code it to specific groups for testing for a bit I am sure.

For right now, you have only one 'freecycle' and it's never going to function as it's not setup as other than that name. I have a test one that if we go live, has to be deleted because it's not really a local thing but more by name a 200 mile swatch of the country but that's ok for testing just what clicks I need to make to setup a real one. (grin). Biggest miss on my test Freecycle here was no way to send an automatied message to a pending member. If it were tied to ModTools, I can do that from there for the 3 groups on that.

Carol

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 04:27 pm, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi Carol,


On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 8:15 AM, <cshenk1@cox.net> wrote:

Hi Mark, sorry I think I just sent a blank. New to Groups.io. I can see
the way to quote in another group. This one must be HTML then and a manual
copy paste is easy for the sighted.

You can force all your messages on the website to be plain text (or
Markdown if you prefer), by going to your profile (
https://groups.io/editprofile) and changing your Post Preference. Or you
can set an individual reply or post to that by using the drop down in the
bottom right corner of the post box.


This might be the hook that allows correctly typing an 'OFFER' to a
'TAKEN' if the taken isn't an exact match in subject line. Has potential
for us Freecycle folks.
While I'm vaguely aware of the Freecycle groups, I don't know anything
about how they work, so I'd have to research this.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Security issue

Frances
 

I think there are several ways to look at all this. As a non-member of Groups.io, as a non- member of a specific group in Groups.io and as a member of the specific group. 

I want the most privacy with the first two   

Frances



locked Re: Security issue

Linda
 

Hi Duane,
The Full Name doesn't have to be your Full Name. It can be any name you prefer. I input Linda and left the User Name blank. Whatever groups I belong to are my business only.

Linda


locked Re: Security issue

Duane
 

After mulling it over, it's not quite as serious as I first thought (but still not needed.) The posts on the Recent Posts tab only show the first line or two (can't remember exactly) with a link to go to the post. If you're not a member of the group it was posted in, you can't see the rest. That could still be a problem on private archives though. Say someone asks for assistance on something. I might reply "I can help. Call me at 123-456-7890." Short enough that the phone number would be displayed, so dangerous. Same could happen with a home address or other "critical" information.

I tried removing the User Name as Linda suggested, but have since restored it. Seems to me that it works backwards. I would think it would show User Name on posts and anywhere else it would be public, with the Full Name only showing in the Profile, if supplied.

Duane


locked Re: Security issue

Frances
 
Edited

I have set a user name but it doesn't seem to be used by the system EXCEPT when you click on profile when logged in.  What is displayed is whatever I have in Full Name on Profile.

+ I would have thought that would be displayed with the posts. And with top posters, etc  


Frances



Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 21, 2015, at 5:08 AM, Linda Star-Freedman wrote:

Hi Mark, I agree completely with Duane on this issue.

Duane, if you want to turn off your Profile, "User Name @"
should be blank : https://groups.io/editprofile?page=profile

Hope that helps,
Linda





locked Re: Security issue

Linda
 

Hi Mark, I agree completely with Duane on this issue.

Duane, if you want to turn off your Profile, "User Name @"
should be blank : https://groups.io/editprofile?page=profile

Hope that helps,
Linda


locked Re: Security issue

Duane
 

If you forget and leave it off permanently, I won't complain. ;>) I really don't see any reason to show any posts. As Susan said, if someone wants to see what I've posted, they should go to the group(s). To be honest, I don't see any reason to have a public Profile at all, but don't see a way to disable it. A Profile for each group might be worth having if only members could see it. I don't think Top Hashtags, Top Posters, and Recent Photos should be on the group home page either, especially on a private group.

Duane


locked Re: Security issue

 

Until I have a chance to look at this (most likely Monday unfortunately), I have disabled that part of the profile section.

Thanks,
Mark

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
I was trying to figure out something else, but stumbled across what I consider to be a major security issue.  Although my groups have private archives, any posts I make are shown in my profile under Recent Posts whether the group is private or public.  I'd just as soon not have any of my posts shown in my Profile.  I don't know what it was intended to be used for, but it's bypassing the settings for the group.

Duane








locked Re: Security issue

 

Ouch!!!! Please don't show posts in profiles!! That is what I hated about Big Tent. They had an inbox on your profile page. All I want is to put posts on a group page. They should go nowhere else.

If you want to see them you go to the group, just like yahoo. If you insist there must be an inbox on your profile then provide an option to turn it off and not have it. Having both an inbox In your profile and group page with messages would confuse our members so much our already stretched mod team would be overwhelmed with questions.

Susan B
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:27 PM, Duane <txpigeon@gmail.com> wrote:

I was trying to figure out something else, but stumbled across what I consider to be a major security issue. Although my groups have private archives, any posts I make are shown in my profile under Recent Posts whether the group is private or public. I'd just as soon not have any of my posts shown in my Profile. I don't know what it was intended to be used for, but it's bypassing the settings for the group.

Duane






locked Security issue

Duane
 

I was trying to figure out something else, but stumbled across what I consider to be a major security issue. Although my groups have private archives, any posts I make are shown in my profile under Recent Posts whether the group is private or public. I'd just as soon not have any of my posts shown in my Profile. I don't know what it was intended to be used for, but it's bypassing the settings for the group.

Duane