Date   

locked Re: Attachments as links

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:49 AM, D R Stinson <dano@mt.net> wrote:

Members need an option in their profile to set a limit for attachment size, as Mark has added to the list. I would suggest three tiers; 50 Kb, 400 Kb and something around 5Mb, as well as unlimited (no filter).
Do these seem like good tiers to everyone? It seems like (these days),
50kb can be taken up by a single smiley face gif, so maybe that should
be higher? I'm wondering if the wording should be more like
Small/Medium/Large/Unlimited, instead of telling them specific byte
sizes.


Default would be the smallest and an introductory message to new members could explain their options.
I would think the default would be Unlimited. What do people think?

As Shal mentioned a long time ago, I agree that this should be a part
of a 'membership template' that the group owner can define. Which
means that maybe it shouldn't even be an option on a user's profile,
it'd just be on a per-subscription basis.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: A way to mute reminders from a recurring event #suggestion

 

Ok, I just pushed the changes. Calendar invites are tagged with
#cal-invite. Reminders are tagged with #cal-reminder. And you can add
tags to event names and they'll be parsed out and handled correctly.
When I add the option to send out a notice when an event happens,
it'll be tagged with #cal-notice.

Thanks,
Mark

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Duane <txpigeon@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 05:05 pm, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

How about "calendar-reminder", "calendar-invite", and "calendar-notice"?
My though here is that the default ones should be overly specific, so as
not to conflict with hashtags the group itself might pick.

-- Shal
Or even cal- or c- to save a few bytes. Definitely something distinctive though.

Duane






locked Re: Attachments as links

Laurence Taylor
 

Diana Gregory <diana@catsandme.net> wrote:

Another thought just to throw out -

stripping an attachment and sticking it into a file or photo "folder"
and replacing it with a link in the email is one way to handle it, and
could be done for all attachments.

Upside - nobody's mail is brought to its knees

Downside - takes up group storage space
Another downside is that it requires the reader to go to a web site in
order to see the attachment, which may be inconvenient (if they read
offline) or even impossible (they might receive email at work but have
restricted web access).

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Re: A way to mute reminders from a recurring event #suggestion

Duane
 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 05:05 pm, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

How about "calendar-reminder", "calendar-invite", and "calendar-notice"?
My though here is that the default ones should be overly specific, so as
not to conflict with hashtags the group itself might pick.

-- Shal
Or even cal- or c- to save a few bytes. Definitely something distinctive though.

Duane


locked Re: A way to mute reminders from a recurring event #suggestion

 

Mark,

Ok, how about this: Event reminders always get the tag #reminder.
Event invites, if they're sent to the group, get the tag #event. And
when we support the option to send the event when it happens, that
also gets tagged #event.
How about "calendar-reminder", "calendar-invite", and "calendar-notice"? My though here is that the default ones should be overly specific, so as not to conflict with hashtags the group itself might pick.

And I'll make it so that tags in the event name are handled correctly
as well.
I like that.

-- Shal


locked Re: Attachments as links

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Diana Gregory <diana@catsandme.net> wrote:

stripping an attachment and sticking it into a file or photo "folder"
and replacing it with a link in the email is one way to handle it, and
could be done for all attachments.

Upside - nobody's mail is brought to its knees

Downside - takes up group storage space
The way the system works right now is that each (free) group has 1GB
of storage space. That's for all attachments, photos, and files. We
don't count the text within emails in that number and we don't count
wiki text. When we receive an email, we pull all the attachments out
of the message and store them elsewhere (Amazon S3) while storing the
(hopefully now much smaller) email in a database. When viewing the
original message, or downloading the archives, or editing a message,
we reverse the process, pulling the attachments from S3 to rebuild the
original email. When viewing the attachments in the archives, we just
point to the attachments at S3, and they're served from there.

(When a group is set to strip attachments, then we do just that before
any other processing, and no attachments get stored in S3).

More than you ever wanted to know. :)

We already do what Dano's asking for with digest messages. The only
issue (I think) with adding this as a per-user option is figuring out
what the options should be.


Thanks,
Mark


locked Updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site today:

  • I replaced the lightbox dialog for viewing individual photos with a dedicated page. The page displays some EXIF data if the image has it, including camera make & model and various photographic parameters.

I have also been working on the ability to delete attachments, and it's unfortunately taking longer than I thought it would (one or two false starts).

Mark


locked Re: A way to mute reminders from a recurring event #suggestion

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Or another alternative is that I could just use some sort of
default hashtag for every #reminder.
A default hashtag for every reminder is probably a good thing; allowing a
member to explicitly Follow or Mute all reminders. But I'd still want the
ability to set specific hashtags for specific recurring events.
Ok, how about this: Event reminders always get the tag #reminder.
Event invites, if they're sent to the group, get the tag #event. And
when we support the option to send the event when it happens, that
also gets tagged #event.

And I'll make it so that tags in the event name are handled correctly as well.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Attachments as links

 

On 4/9/2015 1:03 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
Diana, that a good idea except for the groups that approve files and photos. Then we have 'stuff' that we have no idea where it came from and we don't want it.
Maybe a 3rd "attachment" folder - where things can be staged? Moved to
the file/photo folders when approved, deleted if not?

Definitely not a well-thought out option, but something that Dano's
post popped into my head...

dg


locked Re: Attachments as links

 

Dano,

I also see a possible need for group owners to be able to resample
images down for some images coming in.
For attached images that would likely be a straightforward elaboration on the Pending message editor. For each attached image a selector could be available to remove the image or resample it to one of a few preset bounding-box sizes - somewhat as Flickr's download option offers various sizes.

For images used inline in an HTML message body there is the complication of where to put the controls for it. Maybe in the formatting toolbar when the image is selected in the edit window.

Would a link in an archived message be pointed to the replacement
image?
If it were not for the storage limits in Groups.io I'd strongly favor storing the original, and letting people download the size they prefer. But given those restrictions, and the likely need for managing the group's storage budget, maybe storing the the resampled image should at least be an option.

-- Shal


locked Re: Attachments as links

Judy F.
 

Diana, that a good idea except for the groups that approve files and photos. Then we have 'stuff' that we have no idea where it came from and we don't want it.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Gregory [mailto:diana@catsandme.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 3:16 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Attachments as links

Another thought just to throw out -

stripping an attachment and sticking it into a file or photo "folder"
and replacing it with a link in the email is one way to handle it, and could be done for all attachments.

Upside - nobody's mail is brought to its knees

Downside - takes up group storage space

The other advantage of doing this is the bandwidth of the groups.io server - you have even a small attachment going to a large group - and your sendmail services get brought to *their* knees (an outgoing DOS??).

Dano's 9mb attachment sent to 2 or 3 thousand people seems that it could affect all groups trying to send mail out...

dg


locked Re: Attachments as links

Judy F.
 

I agree Dano and I have been saying basically this about those members that are computer illiterate and there are also those that really don't care, they do what they want to do causing problems for others.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: D R Stinson [mailto:dano@mt.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 2:49 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Attachments as links

I've recently been watching another group (not Y! but a private server) melt down into arguing and name-calling because of over-large attachments. I know this is on Mark's list on Trello (''Include attachments as links'' option in profile), but thought this might throw more light on the problem. The situation started when someone sent a 9Mb file as an attachment. I am convinced the member who sent it didn't realize (or perhaps didn't comprehend) the size of the attachment, but it caused a huge uproar and much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. In the course of the discourse, someone else urged people to get back to the subject at hand and at the same time sent two files with an aggregate size of over 10Mb. It's been somewhat amusing but it brought out a couple points worth noting.

The first is there are a great many people, often lurkers who don't say too much, who have older legacy systems and who are unable, due to location or financial limitations, to obtain faster internet access. The second is there are people who don't comprehend file size. I would offer these thoughts on the subject:

Members need an option in their profile to set a limit for attachment size, as Mark has added to the list. I would suggest three tiers; 50 Kb, 400 Kb and something around 5Mb, as well as unlimited (no filter). Default would be the smallest and an introductory message to new members could explain their options. I would also suggest this be a limit for the *sum* of attachments to a post. If some smaller images would in aggregate be under the self-imposed limit, those images might go through with links to the rest. Anything larger would be links.

I also see a possible need for group owners to be able to resample images down for some images coming in. I'm not sure how this might work, but I'm offering it up for discussion. I know Irfanview has a simple resample option, and there are others. I'm also concerned about how this would relate to copyright. It might be necessary to include in a monthly notice that large files are subject to resampling, and by posting, the member agrees to such. Would a link in an archived message be pointed to the replacement image?

This is currently the biggest problem that keeps me from migrating a couple groups. I know we have a few tech illiterates and people with various system limitations. who will need this to stay active and protect others.

Again, I'm offering these thoughts for discussion. Like everything else, I'm sure there are unanticipated complications, but working them through might help this feature get closer to implementation.

Dano


locked Re: Attachments as links

 

Another thought just to throw out -

stripping an attachment and sticking it into a file or photo "folder"
and replacing it with a link in the email is one way to handle it, and
could be done for all attachments.

Upside - nobody's mail is brought to its knees

Downside - takes up group storage space

The other advantage of doing this is the bandwidth of the groups.io
server - you have even a small attachment going to a large group - and
your sendmail services get brought to *their* knees (an outgoing DOS??).

Dano's 9mb attachment sent to 2 or 3 thousand people seems that it could
affect all groups trying to send mail out...

dg


locked Attachments as links

 

I've recently been watching another group (not Y! but a private server) melt down into arguing and name-calling because of over-large attachments. I know this is on Mark's list on Trello (''Include attachments as links'' option in profile), but thought this might throw more light on the problem. The situation started when someone sent a 9Mb file as an attachment. I am convinced the member who sent it didn't realize (or perhaps didn't comprehend) the size of the attachment, but it caused a huge uproar and much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. In the course of the discourse, someone else urged people to get back to the subject at hand and at the same time sent two files with an aggregate size of over 10Mb. It's been somewhat amusing but it brought out a couple points worth noting.

The first is there are a great many people, often lurkers who don't say too much, who have older legacy systems and who are unable, due to location or financial limitations, to obtain faster internet access. The second is there are people who don't comprehend file size. I would offer these thoughts on the subject:

Members need an option in their profile to set a limit for attachment size, as Mark has added to the list. I would suggest three tiers; 50 Kb, 400 Kb and something around 5Mb, as well as unlimited (no filter). Default would be the smallest and an introductory message to new members could explain their options. I would also suggest this be a limit for the *sum* of attachments to a post. If some smaller images would in aggregate be under the self-imposed limit, those images might go through with links to the rest. Anything larger would be links.

I also see a possible need for group owners to be able to resample images down for some images coming in. I'm not sure how this might work, but I'm offering it up for discussion. I know Irfanview has a simple resample option, and there are others. I'm also concerned about how this would relate to copyright. It might be necessary to include in a monthly notice that large files are subject to resampling, and by posting, the member agrees to such. Would a link in an archived message be pointed to the replacement image?

This is currently the biggest problem that keeps me from migrating a couple groups. I know we have a few tech illiterates and people with various system limitations. who will need this to stay active and protect others.

Again, I'm offering these thoughts for discussion. Like everything else, I'm sure there are unanticipated complications, but working them through might help this feature get closer to implementation.

Dano


locked Re: A way to mute reminders from a recurring event #suggestion

 

Mark,

I like this option best, as it fits with the use of hashtags elsewhere
I was not necessarily suggesting that they were exclusive.

I could fix it up so that any hashtags entered in the Event Name
would be properly displayed and honored as hashtags.

An alternative is that I could provide a separate field for just
hashtags.
A separate field would have the advantage of serving as a reminder that the capability exists. Which I think is good. The downside is the extra "clutter" in the edit page and the fact that it is different from message composition. So I guess that makes me ambivalent too.

Or another alternative is that I could just use some sort of
default hashtag for every #reminder.
A default hashtag for every reminder is probably a good thing; allowing a member to explicitly Follow or Mute all reminders. But I'd still want the ability to set specific hashtags for specific recurring events.

-- Shal


locked Re: A way to mute reminders from a recurring event #suggestion

 

Duane,

And then there would be the inevitable BUT. I don't think list
owners would want members to be able to mute a recurring event that
has been set up to deliver reminder files and information like we've
been discussing on another thread.
Such owners are misguided, I think. The member can always set a filter in their email system to discard the unwanted reminders. There's little or nothing gained by adding the extra complexity of having an owner option to bypass the message filtering.

Yes, I know this mirrors the old argument about allowing owners to disable the "No Mail" setting.

-- Shal


locked Re: A way to mute reminders from a recurring event #suggestion

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Shal Farley <shal@roadrunner.com> wrote:

2) Mute this hashtag

I tried adding a hashtag to the Name of a repeating event, but it didn't "take" - the hashtag did not get added to the group's hashtag list.

Were that limitation fixed that might be a way to do it, but it requires that the event author remember to provide a hashtag for the event. It also clutters up the formatting of the Reminder message's subject line and the headline in the reminder body. But those are all fixable, I think.
I like this option best, as it fits with the use of hashtags elsewhere
(RSS integrations, for example). I could fix it up so that any
hashtags entered in the Event Name would be properly displayed and
honored as hashtags.

An alternative is that I could provide a separate field for just
hashtags. Or another alternative is that I could just use some sort of
default hashtag for every #reminder. Neither of these options strike
me as particularly appealing, tho.

Anything else to consider?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Polls

 

On 9 April 2015 at 13:02, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
Polls are on Mark's to-do list, https://trello.com/b/qu3WgzVq/beta-https-groups-io-org-groupsio-beta

I think that and databases are the two biggies that are still missing, although photos still needs some work.

Duane








locked Re: Polls

Duane
 

Polls are on Mark's to-do list, https://trello.com/b/qu3WgzVq/beta-https-groups-io-org-groupsio-beta

I think that and databases are the two biggies that are still missing, although photos still needs some work.

Duane


locked Polls

 

Is there an option to have a poll on the io groups? One of the groups I belonged to under Yahell had a monthly photo competition - so the poll option was needed for that.


Knyttwytch