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locked Re: ? When editing a message with no subject, it is impossible to add a hashtag to it #bug

 

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 10:32 am, Green Fizzpops <greenfizzpops@...> wrote:
I have just found an introduction message, that has no subject.

 That's odd, because I'm unable to even create a message with no subject. Could there be a blank line in it?

J


locked ? When editing a message with no subject, it is impossible to add a hashtag to it #bug

Green Fizzpops
 

I am going through my transferred archives, adding the #intro hashtag to member introduction threads. I have just found an introduction message, that has no subject. I am unable to add the #intro hashtag to the message's subject - there is no subject to edit.

These are the adding hashtag instructions I am following:

>Open the thread from the Thread View, and click the "Edit Thread" button near the upper right. >Then add the hashtag(s) to the thread's subject line.

Green


locked member changing subject via email results in splitting thread

 

I've noticed on several occasions that when a member responds via email but changes the subject line, a new thread is created. I then have to go in and merge the threads if I want the messages to stay together. 

Is this the way it's supposed to work? It seems equivalent to letting members split a thread. On the other hand, if you disallow it but allow them to change the subject title, it's like letting them edit the thread title. I'm not sure which one is better or worse.

J


locked Wiki Page question

weebeequilting <weebee.1@...>
 

A member has asked me if there is a way to print a Wiki page?  


Janice B

AZ


locked Re: Digest Html

Frances
 

I have the Beta as full featured digest and the Group Managers as regular. I am going to move back to regular for both. The full featured fonts are difficult to read. They don't obey my computer settings for a larger font. The turquoise font in the topic list lacks sufficient contrast. And since it doesn't buy me anything - I can't click on the linked topics in the list nor Back to Topics (the other links work), it doesn't buy me anything but a prettier look.  Sorry, Mark.


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Judy F.,

But as we have discussed before, there are many groups that have different
rules and procedures.
Hence what I said about "one size does not fit all".

When you have on an average of 30 ads per day and at the beginning of
the month far more than that, looking to see if there is an Edited ad
would be a pain.
In the situation you describe, I'm not sure what you mean by "looking to see". I'm assuming you already look at the body of each pending message to make sure it is fit to post. That being the case, if the top line contains the [Edited Message Follows] notice then you're done looking: delete or reject. Nothing else about your existing procedure would change.

If you moderate by web it is even faster: you put a checkmark on each message in the list with an Edit badge, then delete or reject them all at once.

Am I misunderstanding you?

Or is it that you're concerned there will be a large number of edited messages? I wouldn't think so with that being a stated group rule, and given a blanket delete/rejection each time it does happen.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Editing messages

Judy F.
 

But as we have discussed before, there are many groups that have different
rules and procedures. Some are very structured while others are free as the
wind. We don't allow members to edit their ads, period. So if there is an
Edit off and on feature, we could have what we need and you others have what
they want. When members join our group, 'if' they read the rules of the
group, they know they can't edit their ad. Now if they don't read the Group
rules, they will find out when a rejected ad is returned to them.

When you have on an average of 30 ads per day and at the beginning of the
month far more than that, looking to see if there is an Edited ad would be a
pain.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shals2nd@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 3:26 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Editing messages

Judy F.,

Shal, are you saying that's how it works in Groups.io?
Yes. In Groups.io edits to messages follow the same rules as messages.

If yes, that could still be a problem since ads are approved/rejected
based on the timestamp date. So if the actual ad came in at 10:04am
and the edit didn't make it until 10:12am, there may be 10 messages in
between and we don't have time to look through all of the messages to
see if there is an edited one.
Since you would reject (or delete) the edit anyway, I don't see the problem.

If you wanted to look ahead, and you moderate on the web, that at least
would be easy: the edited messages carry an Edit badge in the pending list.

If moderating by email no, you'd need to look at the top of the body to see
if it has the [Edited Message Follows] notice. In Gmail that may be evident
in the message list, if there's room between the subject text and the time
stamp, but in most email systems you'd at least need to skim the message
previews.

If members can't edit period, the problem is solved.
True.

My "one size does not fit all" mantra is the only thing that holds me back
from being fully opposed to giving group owners the ability to disable
edits.

I oppose giving group owners the ability to prevent members from deleting
their contributions (posts, files, etc.) because I view that as something
that the service promises to members in consideration of their
contributions. Likewise I oppose giving group owners the ability to disable
the "No Email" delivery setting because I view control of one's inbox to be
a member's prerogative. In my mind, giving group owners the ability to
prevent edits to messages falls very close to the case with deleting
messages.



Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Judy F.,

Shal, are you saying that's how it works in Groups.io?
Yes. In Groups.io edits to messages follow the same rules as messages.

If yes, that could still be a problem since ads are approved/rejected
based on the timestamp date. So if the actual ad came in at 10:04am and
the edit didn't make it until 10:12am, there may be 10 messages in
between and we don't have time to look through all of the messages to
see if there is an edited one.
Since you would reject (or delete) the edit anyway, I don't see the problem.

If you wanted to look ahead, and you moderate on the web, that at least would be easy: the edited messages carry an Edit badge in the pending list.

If moderating by email no, you'd need to look at the top of the body to see if it has the [Edited Message Follows] notice. In Gmail that may be evident in the message list, if there's room between the subject text and the time stamp, but in most email systems you'd at least need to skim the message previews.

If members can't edit period, the problem is solved.
True.

My "one size does not fit all" mantra is the only thing that holds me back from being fully opposed to giving group owners the ability to disable edits.

I oppose giving group owners the ability to prevent members from deleting their contributions (posts, files, etc.) because I view that as something that the service promises to members in consideration of their contributions. Likewise I oppose giving group owners the ability to disable the "No Email" delivery setting because I view control of one's inbox to be a member's prerogative. In my mind, giving group owners the ability to prevent edits to messages falls very close to the case with deleting messages.



Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Mark,

- Group setting so that all edits are moderated, regardless of the
subscriber's settings.
This would likely put an end to tweak sessions. Once the member clicks "Save And Send" on an edit they can no longer see the changes they made, they have to wait for moderator approval (or rejection).

One thing I don't like: although immediately after "Save And Send" there's a banner to tell the user that their edit awaits moderator action, if the member navigates away and comes back to that message there is no longer any indication of a pending edit. That could lead to multiple attempts, not tweaking but simply forgetting whether they did the edit yet or not.

- Like we do with some integrations, hold off for a minute or two before
sending out the edited message, in case another edit comes in. Only send
out the last one received.
What would appear on the web site, from that member's point of view? Would they see only the original post until the time-out elapses? If so, that would tend to slow the tweak session, encouraging the member to wrap it up in fewer tries.

I agree with Duane that an advance notice of the delay near the "Save And Send" button would help this along, and that goes for the Moderated Edits option (above) as well. And like moderated edits, after clicking "Save And Send" the member probably needs to be made aware of the pending post, even if they navigate away and come back.

- Queue up edits and only send them out once a day, and if there are
multiple edits, only send the last one.
I think that's too much delay.

The suggestion was made for a preview window. I don't see how that'd
help, given that the edit window is already WYSIWYG.
As J suggested, the effect may be mostly psychological, but there is at least one difference in how a message appears in the editor versus after posting: the edit box itself. That constrains the width and height of the visible portion of the text.

Granted, anyone who thinks they've got that much fine control of message appearance when working in HTML hasn't worked in HTML very long. And hasn't seen their work presented on someone else's screen. But that's likely true of novice members.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Shal,

That's a good point. I didn't catch thst Judy's group is moderated.

However, while that particular group might be moderated, another, similar one might not be. Not all groups are alike. Providing the option allows group owners to create a good fit, just like all the existing settings about who can edit what currently do.

I don't see this proposed setting -'who can edit posts' - as much different from who can edit other entities in a group, except that the posts are the users' own.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Judy,

Here is another reason why editing should be an option on/off. The
buying/selling group that I moderate, has a rule that DOES NOT allow an
ad that has been submitted and approved to be edited. That message is
rejected and the seller must submit an entirely new ad.
If the member's messages are moderated then their edits are too. So you still would catch any attempted edit.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum




locked Re: Editing messages

Judy F.
 

Shal, are you saying that's how it works in Groups.io? If yes, that could
still be a problem since ads are approved/rejected based on the timestamp
date. So if the actual ad came in at 10:04am and the edit didn't make it
until 10:12am, there may be 10 messages in between and we don't have time to
look through all of the messages to see if there is an edited one.

If members can't edit period, the problem is solved.
Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shals2nd@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 1:17 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Editing messages

Judy,

Here is another reason why editing should be an option on/off. The
buying/selling group that I moderate, has a rule that DOES NOT allow
an ad that has been submitted and approved to be edited. That message
is rejected and the seller must submit an entirely new ad.
If the member's messages are moderated then their edits are too. So you
still would catch any attempted edit.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Judy,

Here is another reason why editing should be an option on/off. The
buying/selling group that I moderate, has a rule that DOES NOT allow an
ad that has been submitted and approved to be edited. That message is
rejected and the seller must submit an entirely new ad.
If the member's messages are moderated then their edits are too. So you still would catch any attempted edit.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: group I left sent "sorry to see you go" notice w no content #bug?

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
J,

> I thought the "sorry to see you go message" was not sent out if it was
> not filled in. However, today I left an inactive group and received a
> blank message with subject "sorry to see you go," no content.

Confirmed in one of my groups, and in updates@.


Got it. What was happening is that the member notice just consisted of "<p><br></p>", basically a new line. We weren't treating that as a blank message, so it generated the email. We now do a test where we strip all the HTML and see if there's any text at all when deciding whether there's a message or not.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Editing messages

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 05:07 pm, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
the other forum I mentioned (in response to Shal's suggestion for a preview window) is also WYSIWYG.

I take that back. It actually allows some HTML.

J


locked Re: Thread View and time stamps

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 07:31 pm, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Here, and on Yahoo, the message you receive in email shows the origin date/time

I can also confirm that (at least at this point, unless something changes), a Groups.io edited message also continues to bear the timestamp of origin, even if the edit occurred hours later. (Maybe this should change?)



locked Re: group I left sent "sorry to see you go" notice w no content #bug?

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 07:25 pm, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Confirmed

Shal,

Interesting, because I was sure it was reproducible, so I, too, did a little test: I joined my test group under my alternate ID and then quit. But I got no blank message. (I did confirm which email address I'm using for that account, etc.) I've sent the blank message from the group in question to Mark offlist. 

J


locked Re: Thread View and time stamps

 

Brenda,

For example, if the post doesn't show up for two days, doesn't the post
show up with the original date & time stamp?
The Date field in the message header is unaltered. But what your user interface shows you could be a different story.

Is this the way groups.io works? Or is the date and time stamp actually
the date and time stamp it comes through, not the one of the time it was
posted to pending, or etc.
Here, and on Yahoo, the message you receive in email shows the origin date/time - when the sender sent it (with most email systems). Some user interfaces may give you the option of displaying the received date/time instead.

Here, in the Thread View, the Messages view, and the opened message, the Approved date/time is shown. You can find the origin Date/Time in the View Source of the message. If the message did not require moderation I'm not exactly sure what date/time is used, but it is likely to be within seconds of origin date/time.

In Y!Groups the Topics and Messages lists only show the date, not the time; so I'm not sure. The opened message shows the origin date/time.

-- Shal


locked Re: group I left sent "sorry to see you go" notice w no content #bug?

 

J,

I thought the "sorry to see you go message" was not sent out if it was
not filled in. However, today I left an inactive group and received a
blank message with subject "sorry to see you go," no content.
Confirmed in one of my groups, and in updates@.

I thought I could cite authority for my claim that it wouldn't be sent, but my search-fu is failing me.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Interruption while composing a post

 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

> So, my request is to have some kind of a pop up message appear when you
> leave the composing page that asks if you want to send the message, save
> the draft or delete the message or something similar.

Good idea.
(#6058): https://groups.io/g/beta/message/6058  ;-)

Implemented. If the form is dirty (ie. you type anything in either the subject or message fields), and attempt to leave the page, you'll get a dialog warning that your message will not be sent. Consider it a first pass until I can do more work on the post page.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 04:07 pm, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:
The buying/selling group that I moderate, has a rule that DOES NOT allow an ad that has been submitted and approved to be edited. 

 That's a good example, too. I could even see legal, or semi-legal, issues with an offer that's accepted and then changed without the other party's knowledge (because, for example, that person wasn't using email or hadn't checked the site for any update to the offer).

J