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moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 09:01 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
I removed my second membership's Set Moderator Privileges, .... The list of checkboxes had vanished, as had the ability to select Moderator Notifications. I then reversed the process and lo! my list of selectable notifications had reappeared.
I would say again, as before, that if this is happening, it's a distinct and even weirder bug. Toggling "set moderator privileges" on and off should have no effect on the mod's abiltiy to select relevant notifications. Turning it off should not wipe them all out. In any case, I am not seeing this at all, for some reason.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

It means I haven't checked any of their privilege boxes. It's a test case. 
It does not make them a (non-mod) member. They have a subscription and member page in the moderator template.

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 9:24 AM billsf9c via groups.io <OOWONBS=Netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
which is a mod in my test group but with no privileges....

What am I missing?!?
A MOD with No Priveleges...
Cannot Moderate.

They would be as a Member.

BillSF9c


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

billsf9c
 

which is a mod in my test group but with no privileges....

What am I missing?!?
A MOD with No Priveleges...
Cannot Moderate.

They would be as a Member.

BillSF9c


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

I just went through the whole sequence again, with the same results. I can't drink any more coffee or I'll be on the ceiling. (Have switched to tea;). I'll leave it to Mark and/or others to sort this out.

Bottom line: I have a non-owner moderator in my test group with no permissions who has the complete panel of notification options available in their subscription page. Toggling this mod back and forth between set-moderator-privileges on and off has no effect. The complete notification panel is available no matter what.

I'll leave it at that for now. I am concerned about this from a practical point of view because, as I said originally, I just promoted someone to moderator status in my group and I am concerned about her having the abiity to elect to see notifications she should not. So unlike in some cases where I comment in beta, it's not just an intellectual curiosity.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

Chris,
Thanks for the sanity (or insanity?) check. This is really weird. I've done it about five times now, not trusting myself, but will do it again. Pretty sure I'm saving because I log out and back in each time.


On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 9:01 AM Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 04:43 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
If you, Andy, are doing the same sequence and seeing something different, maybe I just need another cup of coffee.
I have done similar tests and would support Andy's point. I have two memberships of someone else's test group, where as a general rule everyone has moderator status. Using my "main" membership I removed my second membership's Set Moderator Privileges, leaving other checked boxes unchanged. I then logged out, and logged back in using my second membership. The list of checkboxes had vanished, as had the ability to select Moderator Notifications. I then reversed the process and lo! my list of selectable notifications had reappeared.

One thought; when you changed the permissions did you remember to Save the change? I ask because I nearly forgot...

Chris


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 04:43 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
If you, Andy, are doing the same sequence and seeing something different, maybe I just need another cup of coffee.
I have done similar tests and would support Andy's point. I have two memberships of someone else's test group, where as a general rule everyone has moderator status. Using my "main" membership I removed my second membership's Set Moderator Privileges, leaving other checked boxes unchanged. I then logged out, and logged back in using my second membership. The list of checkboxes had vanished, as had the ability to select Moderator Notifications. I then reversed the process and lo! my list of selectable notifications had reappeared.

One thought; when you changed the permissions did you remember to Save the change? I ask because I nearly forgot...

Chris


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

I do see the effect you note, Andy, in regards to the moderator permissions panel, which is as it should be - you should see the moderator permissions panel if and only if you have "set moderator privileges" permission. But it does not happen in my tests with the moderator notifications panel, which also is as it should be.

So maybe we are talking about two different things. I am reporting that the moderator notifications panel in the mod's own subscription page is not filtered according to the actual permissions that the moderator has, and I am requesting that it be filtered.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 08:43 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
and look at the member page.
more accurately: and look at the subscription page
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

I tested this again - caffeinated - and am still seeing exactly what I reported before:

1. I gave my test mod zero permissions - none - in my test group (including no "set moderator privileges").
2. I log in as the test mod and go to that same group and look at the member page. The complete notification panel is there and all notifications are available for selection.

So I am still reporting this as a bug, only because I thought Mark had said the filtering had been implemented before - I could be misremembering - and/or suggestion.

If you, Andy, are doing the same sequence and seeing something different, maybe I just need another cup of coffee. Are you sure you're going to the same group pre- and post-logging in as the non-owner mod?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Pricing Changes #update

 

"The fact that this topic has continued over 270 messages is evidence that Markis inclined to listen to his customers. has not yet decided to shut down this thread. "
Besides, it's so much fun! You know how to mute, right?


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Pricing Changes #update

Mark Murphy
 

In some ideal world (where life is always fair), each group owner or member would pay exactly what it costs Mark to provide the service to them, plus a "fair" profit. In some other world, they might just pay Mark what they think is fair, based on their ability to pay, profit/non-profit status, worthiness of their cause, etc. I think several commenters have proposed versions of these scenarios.
 
But no business in the real world operates very long that way. I trust that Mark has developed a business and pricing model that can sustain his business and provide a good service to his customers.

The fact that this topic has continued over 270 messages is evidence that Mark is inclined to listen to his customers. However, I respectfully suggest that discussion of how group owners and members might financially support the costs of their groups move to GMF or some other group.
 
Happy New Year!


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

I totally get what you’re saying you’re seeing, but I have a mod with zero privileges - none - who still sees the panel when logged in. Which was why I said “any subset.” I’ll double check, as I said. I may not be fully caffeinated yet...


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 02:42 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect.
That maybe the case. However your original assertion was that "Any mod, with any subset of permissions (including the null set), can elect to receive notifications for anything: pending members, pending messages, etc" and that is not the case as I see it because if they don't have 'Set Moderator Privileges' they cannot change the notifications they receive as they don't see the panel where those options can be set.

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 02:42 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect.
That maybe the case. However your original assertion was that "Any mod, with any subset of permissions (including the null set), can elect to receive notifications for anything: pending members, pending messages, etc" and that is not the case as I see it because if they don't have 'Set Moderator Privileges' they cannot change the notifications they receive as they don't see the panel where those options can be set.

Regards
Andy


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

(typo - “set moderator privileges,” not “set moderator options”)


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:42 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect. We would expect notifications to be available corresponding to privileges, regardless of “set moderator privikeges” - e.g., mod with “approve pending member” privileges can opt to receive pending member notifications, mod with “approved pending message” messages analogous, etc. I don’t see what “set moderator options” has, it should have, anything to do with this.??? So I am perplexed. In any case I’ll run my tests again. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:34 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Ok, thsnks, that’s weird. I’ll do it again and see what happens. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect. We would expect notifications to be available corresponding to privileges, regardless of “set moderator privikeges” - e.g., mod with “approve pending member” privileges can opt to receive pending member notifications, mod with “approved pending message” messages analogous, etc. I don’t see what “set moderator options” has, it should have, anything to do with this.??? So I am perplexed. In any case I’ll run my tests again. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:34 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Ok, thsnks, that’s weird. I’ll do it again and see what happens. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

Ok, thsnks, that’s weird. I’ll do it again and see what happens. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Pricing Changes #update

Jeremy H
 

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 12:16 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 12:12 PM, Jeremy H wrote:
It is a very basic IT/DataProcessing concept that it's all based on bits - storing, changing, copying them - and it's those that drive the costs and benefits of internet/web services - and those are generated - by individual bits - in picocents: but add up to megabucks: and how you charge and account for them, at an additional cost of kilobucks (or less) rather than (unafforadable) gigabucks that is the great business problem of the industry.
To put it another way, large - scale over - quoting ratchets up (in this case) Groups.io's costs, or have misunderstood? 

Chris
I think you misunderstand. Groups.io costs (and the the benefits it provides) are based on very small units, with very small prices, but these build up - bits to bytes to words to posts to topics to groups to the whole Groups.io 'system' - and the price similarly mounts up to large. The problem is how you divide up, account for and pay/be paid that large amount (based on very many small amounts) without the accounts function overwhelming the rest of the business. Without knowing, Mark's answer seems essentially to be 'crudely' - his proposed pricing structure is by group, by number of members. Which keeps the accounting and invoicing fairly simple (hence cheap). He could be counting bytes stored and transmitted for each  group, to give a price better matched to each group's costs -  but that would cost him more money (which he doesn't think worth it)

And every other business has essentially the same issue.

Jeremy

(Apologies - while I drafted this yesterday, didn't actually manage to send it then)


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

Actually, never one to believe what someone else tells me without proof, I just logged into a different account which is a mod in my test group but with no privileges. The notification panel was there and all notifications were available to me.

Also, while logged in as myself, I went into the two other groups i'm on a mod in, and in which I definitely do not have "set moderation privileges." Same thing.

So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.

Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion

 

Great, thanks for checking that out. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 1:24 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 11:40 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
OTOH after posting this I know only that I, as group owner, can set mods with no permissions to receive the notifications. But I don’t know if the mod themself can opt to receive the notifications. It’s possible they are selectable  by me but not by the mod in their view of their member page. I haven’t tested that yet.
After a bit of basic testing it seems that if a mod has been granted 'Set Moderator Privileges' then they can turn notifications on and off in the Moderator Notifications panel of their membership record. Without 'Set Moderator Privileges' the Moderator Notifications panel doesn't show so they only get what the Owner has set for them.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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