Date   

Re: Ongoing Calendar Saga #bug

 

Hi Kenny,

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:21 PM Kenny Paul <kpaul@...> wrote:

I've about reached my breaking point related to Gio cal vs. G-cal and the unhealthy frienemy relationship they have had over the past couple of years.   You can subscribe to the a couple of our Gio sub-group cals from and G-cal and they the work just fine and others just will not do squat. Gsuite account, non-gsuite account, old account, new account, I just cannot get stuff to work in any consistent fashion.  The community is in disarray at this point given the fact that so many folks do not use Gio natively and I simply have run out of ideas.

I am sorry about the bugs you're experiencing. The ICS file spec is not my favorite. I have fixed the escaping issue that was causing GCal to not parse that file. It now parses it correctly. You will notice that it doesn't load 2 of the events into the Google calendar. I'm still researching that; it's because the two events have the same UID, but I don't yet know how that happened, if it's normal, and what to do about it.

Thanks,
Mark 


FollowTopic Yes or No page doesn't obey No #bug

Christos G. Psarras
 

Hi Mark,

If one group's settings is FollowingOnly and they click on the Follow This Topic link at the footer of an emailed message from the group, as expected they are taken to the Follow this Yes/No page (which btw still uses "thread" instead of "topic").

If one clicks on No there however, it does the same thing as Yes does, adds it to your FollowedTopics list and lands you in the FollowedTopics page.

Cheers,
Christos


Re: Ongoing Calendar Saga #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 07:21 PM, Kenny Paul wrote:
Gsuite account, non-gsuite account, old account, new account, I just cannot get stuff to work in any consistent fashion.
If you change the name of a group/subgroup that also affects the feed address. You will have to click the Subscribe to Calendar button again to get a new GIO feed and re-sub that to the Google calendar.

Does that help?

I am not aware of any way to go in the other direction (i.e.: subscribe a Google calendar to groups.io). Others more knowledgeable than I am may have ideas.

Regards,
Bruce


Re: Moderator created new hashtag without permission #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 07:10 PM, I wrote:
Discrepancies:  
  • My Owner account is not actually moderated. The message went into moderation because it contained a new hashtag.
  • I did not add the hashtag before approving the message. The act of approving the message added the hashtag and generated both log entries.
Peter -- Well, now I'm just being dumb.

Apparently, my Owner account was actually moderated in my test group. I must have left it that way from some previous test I was doing. So it actually did go into moderation for that reason, and the log entry was correct.

What actually happens [under normal circumstances] is that incoming emails with new hashtags, when sent by Moderators/Owners, override the group hashtag setting -- going directly into the message base and generating those two log entries -- without any further intervention by anybody.

If you haven't given this person the permission to create new hashtags this certainly does seem like a way to circumvent that.

As I said before, I'd prefer that Moderator/Owner posts be treated no differently from Member posts in this regard.

Duh.

Bruce


Ongoing Calendar Saga #bug

Kenny Paul
 

I've about reached my breaking point related to Gio cal vs. G-cal and the unhealthy frienemy relationship they have had over the past couple of years.   You can subscribe to the a couple of our Gio sub-group cals from and G-cal and they the work just fine and others just will not do squat. Gsuite account, non-gsuite account, old account, new account, I just cannot get stuff to work in any consistent fashion.  The community is in disarray at this point given the fact that so many folks do not use Gio natively and I simply have run out of ideas.

Random list where cal subscription works:  onap-arc@...
Random list where cal subscription doesn't work: 
onap-requirements-sub@... 

Ideas, help, xanax or tequila all welcome.

--
Kenny Paul, Technical Program Manager for ONAP
The Linux Foundation
Pacific Time Zone


FILES-Search, UPLOADED criteria sort is using incorrect date field for either sorting or displaying the results #bug

Christos G. Psarras
 

Hi Mark,

I searched and found that you mentioned in the July 24 site updates change log that "BUGFIX: Fixed sorting of Files section search results."
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/75779771

Apparently the problem has reappeared. (along with a separate FILES keyword search problem not finding files that are there but that will be in a separate message)

The Upload sort order must be using some other date field for the sorting, because it doesn't sort them correctly, in either ASC or DESC order; or it actually does sort them correctly, but it displays a different (DateUpdated?) field date which results in the list showing like it's not sorted correctly, something to that effect, see attached.

It only happens when the search box is being used, it sorts them correctly if it's not.

Cheers,
Christos



Re: Email delivery issues #update

 

Hi All,

We are caught up with email delivery.

Thanks, Mark


Re: Email delivery issues #update

 

Hi All,

As you've hopefully noticed, email has started to flow again. We have quite a backlog to work through, however, so it will take some time before we're caught up. I believe I've stabilized things. No email was lost, and the problem didn't affect any other part of the service.

I will post at least one more time in this topic when we're fully caught up with the backlog. And, probably tomorrow, I will post a #postmortem detailing what happened and what changes I'll be making.

Thanks, Mark


Re: Moderator created new hashtag without permission #bug

Peter Cook
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:01 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Under no circumstances are messages actually bounced based on this setting.

Thanks, Bruce. Yes, I'm aware of this. In fact I posted some time ago, either in GMF or here, about the inconsistent use of the word "bounce."

Pete


Re: Moderator created new hashtag without permission #bug

Peter Cook
 

Folks, I apologize - I misinterpreted what happened. The moderator in question actually added the new hashtag via the group website before posting the message.

However, there is still a mystery: As I said, her hashtag permission does not allow her to do that. I thought perhaps I had revoked this permission after this happened - but according to the activity log the last time her permissions were changed was before she created the hashtag. I'll investigate further.

Pete


Email delivery issues #update

 

Hello,

We're currently seeing delayed delivery of email. I'm investigating and will post more when I know.

Thanks,
Mark


Re: (revised) file upload notification requires pending message approvel for uploaders on mod #bug

 

Further nailing down the bug:
It turns out that the notifications are being sent for moderation in my group not because #file-notice is set to Moderated (it's not), but because my group is set to MFF (moderate the first message of every topic). So it seems the main issue is the log entry, which claimis that the notification was moderated because it's a "Moderated integration message" (it's not, even if you understand what "moderated integration meesage" means). It was moderated because it's being considered the first message in a new topic. And that's the secondary issue: each notification is considered the first message in a new topic, resulting in moderation. I don't think it should be.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Moderator created new hashtag without permission #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:18 AM, Peter Cook wrote:
Our group message policy setting includes "Messages from members can only be tagged with existing hashtags, otherwise the message is bounced."
Peter -- The wording for this setting is currently being discussed for revision.

Under no circumstances are messages actually bounced based on this setting. The help docs are also unclear on this.

See https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/76801206#26257 and provide any comments you have in that topic.

One of our moderators, who does not have permission to create or modify hashtags, sent a message with a misspelled hashtag, and that new tag was then created.
If a Moderator/Owner posts with a new hashtag, the message is not bounced, nor is it held as a draft (as it would be if sent by a Member). It is held as pending (i.e.: in moderation).

If someone subsequently approves the pending message anyway, the new hashtag is created, on the premise that this was intentional.

You can look for this approval in the group's activity log.

It shouldn't have been.
Well, it wouldn't have been, if someone hadn't approved it. That said, I agree that it would be substantially less confusing if Moderator/Owner posts were treated the same as Members with respect to this setting.

Regards,
Bruce


Re: Moderator created new hashtag without permission #bug

 

So the message was (correctly) sent for moderation but the hashtag was created anyway, before the message was approved? That does sound like the wrong order.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: (revised) file upload notification requires pending message approvel for uploaders on mod #bug

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 08:39 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
IIRC the Moderation of these Notifications depends on the Group Setting for each group
That seems to be correct. But the bug is that even though my group is not moderated, and even though the hashtags are (correctly) not set to moderated, the notifications are being sent to pending for moderation.

I think I would agree that the use of the word "integration" is perhaps not the best description; aggregated perhaps, but even that is inappropriate if there is only one action notified.
I would avoid all of those adjectives. I think "integration" actually came from groups.io integrations a la Facebook, which is just wrong. "Aggregate," as you point out, is also not appropriate if there's only one upload. I think "upload notification" or "file upload notification" or "photo .." (or whatever) is completely adequate.

I don't think the problem (assuming is it one) can be resolved without a complete redesign of the "Upload" (and "Edit") User Interfaces
I do think there is a problem here, separate from the bug. That said, it seems to be an easy matter to fix the bug at minimum. And I don't think users checking the "notify members" box or not is rocket science.

Thanks for your thoughts.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: (revised) file upload notification requires pending message approvel for uploaders on mod #bug

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:11 PM, I wrote:
I'll come back with some observations later when I have more time available.
It is now "later". :)

I have spent a little time refreshing my memory about all this. My principal recollection is that I ended up thoroughly befuddled about the way things worked, or at least seemed to work. Ultimately I decided that the only option was going to be "see how things worked in practice". In that practice things are (or can be) very different depending on whether or not the original uploader chooses to notify members or not; I have seen occasions where someone remembered to check the "notify" box on some uploaded but not others that could be considered to be part of the same batch, but that is hardly Groups.io's fault! Nonetheless it ends with with a muddled flow of "notifications" that can be hard to unravel. 

IIRC the Moderation of these Notifications depends on the Group Setting for each group, not the moderation status of each individual member. The rights and wrongs of that are perhaps a separate topic, which I am reluctant to start.

The apparent delay in Notifications turning up for Moderation is variable, or at least can be. Again IIRC the "integration window" between an "action" and the notification being originated is (or was) 4 minutes. However, its arrival in a Moderator's Inbox is also a function of how often the mod's email client (assuming that a client is in use) goes looking to see if there is any mail to download. When I bought this PC in early June the default setting was 30 minutes which IMHO was far too infrequent and I reset it to 10 minutes, but that can still mean that there is a 14 minute delay between an "action" and my receiving an email telling me about it. This 10 minute delay also applies to posts for moderation, which means that "moderator 1" can receive the message and approve it some time before it ever appears in "moderator 2's" inbox. In reality it isn't a major issue but it is easy to overlook the fact that the delay exists. 

I think I would agree that the use of the word "integration" is perhaps not the best description; aggregated perhaps, but even that is inappropriate if there is only one action notified. Anyone setting up a new photo album, uploading a few pictures and adding descriptions is going to struggle to get it all into a 4 minute window for a single "aggregated" notification to take place.

One of my original concerns is that the overall process could result in blizzard of notifications (inc moderation notifications) being sent to moderators, but to be fair since then I don't think I have encountered anything more than a serious flurry; it was still a bit confusing though. FWIW I don't think the problem (assuming is it one) can be resolved without a complete redesign of the "Upload" (and "Edit") User Interfaces, but I rather doubt if Mark would welcome any such suggestion. Might be easier than trying to educate group members to use the Files and Photos sections in a more sensible way, though...

Chris


Re: Moderator created new hashtag without permission #bug

Peter Cook
 

I should add - when a member does this, the message is properly kicked back. So the settings are correct.


Moderator created new hashtag without permission #bug

Peter Cook
 

Our group message policy setting includes "Messages from members can only be tagged with existing hashtags, otherwise the message is bounced."

One of our moderators, who does not have permission to create or modify hashtags, sent a message with a misspelled hashtag, and that new tag was then created. It shouldn't have been.

Pete


Re: (revised) file upload notification requires pending message approvel for uploaders on mod #bug

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 04:59 AM, Duane wrote:
I would also consider that a bug when it occurs even when the #photo-notice hashtag does NOT have the 'Moderated' option checked, as it does now.  I
Ok, it is a bug. I just checked and neither my group's #file-notice or #photo-notice tags are set to Moderated, yet the notifications are still being treated (and labelled in the log) as moderated.

Further to the bug I have the following suggestions, in the case that the notices *are* appropriately moderated: make the log entry consistent with other log entries for moderated topics (i.e., "requires moderation because the topic is moderated due to hashtag bla bla"). And fix the term "integration message."

My guess is that most moderators, when encountering these approval requests, are going to be mystified and frustrated. Nobody besides the cogniscenti in beta (and in this case, that does not even include me) knows what a "moderated integration message" is, assuming they even check the log to find that arcane explanation; and the required approval exacerbates the already existing delay due to the "combiner." People generally expect "notify all members" on a file or photo upload to proceed immediately.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Testing Notifications; Fault or Feature? #bug

 

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 04:10 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
... Integration sent message "File Notifications #file-notice"
requiring approval because it's a moderated integration message via
email.
I believe the word Integration there is a misnomer,
I agree with this.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu