main@beta.groups.io

Re: trimming and e-mail

Mark Fletcher

#67

Laurence,

Plain text emails are passed through unmodified, except for the addition of the message footer. In addition, you can set your group for plain text only, which means that any HTML messages will be converted to plain text (if they contain a plain text part, that will be used, otherwise the HTML will be converted to plain text). If the group is not set to plain text only, HTML messages are sent through unconverted.

Mark

Show quoted text

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 5:58 AM, Laurence Taylor <g7mzh@...> wrote:

On 12/10/2014 17:57, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> Hi Ronaldo,
>
> Figuring out what's quoted and what isn't is a very tricky thing to do
> programmatically, because there are so many different ways of indicating
> quoting. What we try to do right now is only collapse a quoted part of a
> message if there's only one quoted part of the message, and if the quoted
> part falls at the end of the message. It's more tricky if it's an HTML
> message, and we're not as good at it as I'd like, but that's the goal.

On that subject, is it possible to send plain text messages (no MIME
codes, no odd symbles, just good old 7-bit, like this one is) and have
them pass through unmolested?

Also, what happens if someone sends something written in HTML? Does your
system try to extract the text, or is it left up to the recipient's mail
reader?

--
rgds
LAurence

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Re: trimming and e-mail

ro-esp

#68

cdjamieson@shaw.ca  sendis:

if I am understanding this correctly,I'm not quite sure you do :-)

I would not want anything  deleted.  That is up to the group members  if that is a rule of the  group; which it is in a lot of  canine/feline health groups, but  isn't in just chatty groupsI'm not interested in chatty groups, I'm talking discussion-type  groups. In those you NEED to be able to quote the pieces you're  commenting, and put your comments below them. Being able to read the  previous message afterwards won't do.

Of course quoting and trimming customs vary from group to group, but  lots of people hate it when all previous messages in a thread are sent  along (=TOFU).
An autotrim-option would mean you never have to remind people to not  send along superfluous pieces of quote. If you want nothing to be  deleted, all you have to do is type something BELOW what you want  quoted.
I've found that this custom prevents a lot of (unnecesary) replies to  things that weren't said, but merely misremembered.

As to different ways of quoting , I'm fine with what I call(ed)  TRADITIONAL quoting, like the pioneers in "usenet" had even before I  sent my first e-mail. With a > for every time it's been quoted

As to HTML. What would I (or any EMAIL-list) need that for? [Yes, I am  a bit of a "dinosaur" :-)]

                      groetjes, Ronaldo

On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:34 AM, ro-esp@dds.nl wrote:

Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email?  Is  there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting (   http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on   googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes   everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign  a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
                                                groetjes, Ronaldo
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Re: trimming and e-mail

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>

#69

yes, thanks Ronaldo,

I am not familiar with most of the technical terms unfortunately and Mark did explain to me what you were referring to.

Cherrill

Show quoted text

On Oct 13, 2014, at 9:42 AM, ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:

cdjamieson@... sendis:

if I am understanding this correctly,

I'm not quite sure you do :-)

I would not want anything deleted. That is up to the group members if that is a rule of the group; which it is in a lot of canine/feline health groups, but isn't in just chatty groups

I'm not interested in chatty groups, I'm talking discussion-type groups. In those you NEED to be able to quote the pieces you're commenting, and put your comments below them. Being able to read the previous message afterwards won't do.

Of course quoting and trimming customs vary from group to group, but lots of people hate it when all previous messages in a thread are sent along (=TOFU).
An autotrim-option would mean you never have to remind people to not send along superfluous pieces of quote. If you want nothing to be deleted, all you have to do is type something BELOW what you want quoted.
I've found that this custom prevents a lot of (unnecesary) replies to things that weren't said, but merely misremembered.

As to different ways of quoting , I'm fine with what I call(ed) TRADITIONAL quoting, like the pioneers in "usenet" had even before I sent my first e-mail. With a > for every time it's been quoted

As to HTML. What would I (or any EMAIL-list) need that for? [Yes, I am a bit of a "dinosaur" :-)]

groetjes, Ronaldo

On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:34 AM, ro-esp@... wrote:

Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email? Is there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting ( http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
groetjes, Ronaldo

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Re: Well...

Mark Fletcher

#70

Yep, you're right. Post via web should ensure that a post is tagged before it sends it, if the group is configured that way. I've added it to the TODO list.

Thanks,

Mark

Show quoted text

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 4:20 PM, <butterandpeanuts@...> wrote:

So I created a group, put up a post without a hashtag (in my settings I said one was required), and hit post, etc. I thought it posted.
Then I get an email saying I didn't include a hashtag and gives me a link. That's sorta weird that I have to wait till I get an email back to tell me no hashtag was included...
I click on the link, and it doesn't allow me to EDIT the post to add the hashtag.
Also, I'm getting weird action when I try and add a new line that has spaces between the lines.

Re: Invite flow

Mark Fletcher

#71

I've gone ahead and changed the wording for the password. I've also fixed the issue with HTML in the invite message (I decided to keep it plain text, and I'm just escaping tags now). You can now specify a name when inviting someone. And I fixed the problem with sending invitations again.

Thanks,

Mark

Show quoted text

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

Mark,

>> 2) The Invite Message box looks like a plain text entry box.
>> ...
>
> Hmm. I'm a little surprised that the HTML wasn't escaped in the message
> itself. Anyways, the text box should be HTML and you should be able to
> enter HTML in the invite message. I've put it on the TODO list.

As long as there's some constraint in what the devious or criminally minded can do with the HTML. The iframe and script tags once bedeviled Yahoo Groups home pages (and Messages archives) until Y!Groups implemented a whitelist of "safe" tags. But that was in simpler times, I don't know what they do now.

> Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't ask to verify email addresses either. A
> friend of mine who is in user interface thinks I'm crazy for not asking
> for verification. But I hate having to type everything in twice. What do
> you think?

Having done it a few times on your site now I'm kind of with you on that. And I've always chuckled to myself as I paste a freshly generated password into both boxes on conventional sign-up forms - that doesn't really confirm anything so the purpose was lost.

On the other hand, my initial reaction tells me that your friend has a point. A Confirmation entry box is a familiar clue to the user that this is a place to register a new password. Right now the invite landing page says:

"Enter A Password For Your Groups.io Account".

The use of "A" instead of "The" is a pretty subtle clue.. Perhaps it could say:

"Choose a new password to create your Groups.io account"

That's even more explicit than a Confirmation box. I'm being a little subtle too: I refer to "new password" here (and in join) to reinforce the idea that the user shouldn't re-use a password they're using elsewhere.

The other reason to have a Confirmation box is that the small bother now may avoid a larger inconvenience (or other cost) associated with correcting it later if you get it wrong. But I think your password reset mechanism (having now been through it too) is facile enough to eliminate this concern.

-- Shal

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Help Center

Mark Fletcher

#72

All,

I've started putting together a help center. It's at

https://groupsio.zendesk.com/hc

Please let me know if you have any suggestions for things I can add or any other way it can be improved. I'll be putting a link to it in the footer of the web site.

Thanks,

Mark

Re: Help Center

Judy F.

#73

I don’t mean to sound sarcastic when I say this, but please make sure whoever is answering the messages know the correct answer. If they don’t have them direct the question to someone who does. Also, no canned answers that don’t’ even apply to the question.

Thank you,

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

Show quoted text

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 4:48 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Help Center

All,

I've started putting together a help center. It's at

https://groupsio.zendesk.com/hc

Please let me know if you have any suggestions for things I can add or any other way it can be improved. I'll be putting a link to it in the footer of the web site.

Thanks,

Mark

Re: Help Center

Mark Fletcher

#74

That is certainly our goal.

Thanks,

Mark

Show quoted text

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 5:49 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

I don’t mean to sound sarcastic when I say this, but please make sure whoever is answering the messages know the correct answer. If they don’t have them direct the question to someone who does. Also, no canned answers that don’t’ even apply to the question.
Thank you,

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@.....io]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 4:48 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Help Center

All,

I've started putting together a help center. It's at

https://groupsio.zendesk.com/hc

Please let me know if you have any suggestions for things I can add or any other way it can be improved. I'll be putting a link to it in the footer of the web site.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: Help Center

Judy F.

#75

This gets better and better.

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

Show quoted text

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 12:47 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Help Center

That is certainly our goal.

Thanks,

Mark

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 5:49 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

I don’t mean to sound sarcastic when I say this, but please make sure whoever is answering the messages know the correct answer. If they don’t have them direct the question to someone who does. Also, no canned answers that don’t’ even apply to the question.

Thank you,

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@.....io]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 4:48 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Help Center

All,

I've started putting together a help center. It's at

https://groupsio.zendesk.com/hc

Please let me know if you have any suggestions for things I can add or any other way it can be improved. I'll be putting a link to it in the footer of the web site.

Thanks,

Mark

Re: trimming and e-mail

Laurence Taylor

#76

On 13/10/2014 16:34, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Laurence,

Plain text emails are passed through unmodified, except for the addition of
the message footer. In addition, you can set your group for plain text
only, which means that any HTML messages will be converted to plain text
(if they contain a plain text part, that will be used, otherwise the HTML
will be converted to plain text). If the group is not set to plain text
only, HTML messages are sent through unconverted.EXcellent, thank you!


-- 
rgds
LAurence

Tuesday site changes #changelog

Mark Fletcher

#77

I'm going to start posting what changes have been made to the site. I'll do so under the hashtag #updates, so if you're not interested in the minutia, you can mute it.

Changes to the site today:

The Delete Message button appears in more places, and now shows when a user is viewing a message that they've authored. A couple message deletion bugs were also fixed.

Periods are no longer allowed in group names. People were creating groups with names that were just URLs.

Recompiled everything with a newer version of the Go postgresql library, trying to squash a random crashing bug.

Mark

suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

Derek Shanahan <derek@...>

#78

Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'

Re: suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

Mark Fletcher

#79

Hmm, subgroup by hashtag. Interesting. Would you want the archives of this subgroup to be available to all the members of the group or just the people in the subgroup? Would you want anyone in the group to be able to join this subgroup if they wanted?

It would be like pre-muting a hashtag for everyone except the subgroup members.

I've thought about other ways to do subgroups. Creating a special group address like groupname+subname@groups.io, for example.

Thanks,

Mark

Show quoted text

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:

Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'

Re: suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

Derek Shanahan <derek@...>

#80

- Hadn't thought about archives, but likely prefer to have them hidden from non-members.

- Joining: ATM I'd be great with manually adding members, but did imagine an "application" or "subscribe" option that let me say to the entire group "Hey, I'm starting a side-thread about X EVENT, please send an email with #xevent in the subject to our list to join that thread(s)". Maybe an option to make that automatically in, or in after approval by a mod/admin.

- Yeah, a subgroup email would be nice - I'm mostly worried about doing it all inside of one major group.

Thanks!

Derek

-

Derek Shanahan

// musicgeeks.co

// email: derek@...

// dshan.me

// @dshan

Show quoted text

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hmm, subgroup by hashtag. Interesting. Would you want the archives of this subgroup to be available to all the members of the group or just the people in the subgroup? Would you want anyone in the group to be able to join this subgroup if they wanted?

It would be like pre-muting a hashtag for everyone except the subgroup members.

I've thought about other ways to do subgroups. Creating a special group address like groupname+subname@groups.io, for example.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:
Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'

Inbox, Archive and muting

Frances

#81

Hi Mark,

I have a question or two about the way Groups.io works.

There seems to be two views for messages - an Inbox for all groups I belong to (Home), and a screen for each group I belong to. (from Home, choose Your Groups).

These operate quite differently and I find it confusing.

I like that I can see all recent posts for ALL my groups at once in one place (the Inbox). But sometimes, I just want to see messages from one specific group.

The All-groups (Home) screen has an Inbox.
The specific groups screen only has an Archive and the Top Posters list. No Inbox. However there is a Messages label which seems to be for moderation purposes at some point.

If I want to mute a thread,  I can only mute a thread through the website if I go to all threads for ALL groups I belong to, i.e. to the Inbox.

However, I cannot mute a thread from the specific group - from Archives. I can see a link to examine muted threads, but cannot not mute another one.
If I select Thread View (not Message View) in Archives, I can edit a thread - close a thread or make it a sticky. 
This might be a logical place to mute a thread.

Also, I see I can also edit a thread from an email - there is an option at the bottom of the email to mute the thread - at the bottom of the Digest email.

I was also wondering where / how I can un-mute a thread. For example, I might want to mute a thread if someone is becoming tedious! But later, I might want to hear any new discussion on the topic. 
Or am I missing something? 

Frances

Searching archive

Frances

#82

Hi again

It seems that the Archive search box for a specific group operates differently if you search by thread view or by message view.

If I go to a specific group, and search for the word hashtags in Thread View, I only get results from that specific group. This is what I would expect.

If I search for the word hashtags in Message View, I get results from all groups - I think only from all that I belong to.
Not a problem, but I think you should have something that tells the user what results he or she will get.

Frances

Threads

Frances

#83

Hi again

I was wondering how threads work.

We have a travel discussion forum so some wording might appear on different posts and appear to be a thread. Like “Rome hotel”.

It is particularly important if someone has muted a thread and now wants new posts.

So, does the algorithm just see the word order and group it as a thread? Is there a time component? Can old threads be restarted by someone using the same words and word order? 

Frances

Re: suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

Mark Fletcher

#84

Hmm. At first blush doesn't feel like it should be a #hashtag thing, but maybe a groupname+subgroup@groups.io thing. Hashtags are more for archive organization and muting.

Anyone else have any thoughts on subgroups?

Thanks,

Mark

Show quoted text

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:

- Hadn't thought about archives, but likely prefer to have them hidden from non-members.

- Joining: ATM I'd be great with manually adding members, but did imagine an "application" or "subscribe" option that let me say to the entire group "Hey, I'm starting a side-thread about X EVENT, please send an email with #xevent in the subject to our list to join that thread(s)". Maybe an option to make that automatically in, or in after approval by a mod/admin.

- Yeah, a subgroup email would be nice - I'm mostly worried about doing it all inside of one major group.

Thanks!
Derek

-
Derek Shanahan
// musicgeeks.co

// email: derek@...
// dshan.me
// @dshan

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hmm, subgroup by hashtag. Interesting. Would you want the archives of this subgroup to be available to all the members of the group or just the people in the subgroup? Would you want anyone in the group to be able to join this subgroup if they wanted?

It would be like pre-muting a hashtag for everyone except the subgroup members.

I've thought about other ways to do subgroups. Creating a special group address like groupname+subname@groups.io, for example.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:
Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'

Re: Threads

Mark Fletcher

#85

Frances,

Here's how a thread happens. Someone sends a message. Others reply to that message, or to other replies. All of those are in one thread. If someone replies, but changes the subject, then that becomes the start of a new thread. If someone sends a completely new email (compose instead of reply) that happens to have the exact same subject as another thread, it's still considered a new thread. The system figures this out by mainly by reference information encoded in the email headers by everyone's email programs. There is no time component.

If someone mutes a thread, they're only muting that particular thread, not every message with a particular subject.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Show quoted text

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

Hi again

I was wondering how threads work.

We have a travel discussion forum so some wording might appear on different posts and appear to be a thread. Like “Rome hotel”.

It is particularly important if someone has muted a thread and now wants new posts.

So, does the algorithm just see the word order and group it as a thread? Is there a time component? Can old threads be restarted by someone using the same words and word order?

Frances

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Re: Inbox, Archive and muting

Mark Fletcher

#86

Frances,

I agree that it is a little confusing right now. And you are correct, right now in the Group view, there is no way to mute a thread. I will add that to the TODO list.

Right now the only place to unmute a thread is going to the home page/Inbox view, and clicking on Muted Threads.

I use Inbox view to refer to all the messages from all the groups you're subscribed to. And I use Archives to refer to messages from a particular group. Do you (or anyone here) have any suggestions for better words for these?

Thanks,

Mark

Show quoted text

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

Hi Mark,

I have a question or two about the way Groups.io works.

There seems to be two views for messages - an Inbox for all groups I belong to (Home), and a screen for each group I belong to. (from Home, choose Your Groups).

These operate quite differently and I find it confusing.

I like that I can see all recent posts for ALL my groups at once in one place (the Inbox). But sometimes, I just want to see messages from one specific group.

The All-groups (Home) screen has an Inbox.
The specific groups screen only has an Archive and the Top Posters list. No Inbox. However there is a Messages label which seems to be for moderation purposes at some point.

If I want to mute a thread, I can only mute a thread through the website if I go to all threads for ALL groups I belong to, i.e. to the Inbox.

However, I cannot mute a thread from the specific group - from Archives. I can see a link to examine muted threads, but cannot not mute another one.
If I select Thread View (not Message View) in Archives, I can edit a thread - close a thread or make it a sticky.
This might be a logical place to mute a thread.

Also, I see I can also edit a thread from an email - there is an option at the bottom of the email to mute the thread - at the bottom of the Digest email.

I was also wondering where / how I can un-mute a thread. For example, I might want to mute a thread if someone is becoming tedious! But later, I might want to hear any new discussion on the topic.
Or am I missing something?

Frances

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