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moderated Re: Moderator privileges

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 12:53 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
There are some group members I trust to handle certain tasks, and others I trust with more. So I second the request being made here. I may have already made it in the past.
Like I said, I have no objection to this.

That being said, I don't know that the "pick and choose from among a menu for ala carte functions" is the way I'd go.  I'd be more inclined to go with more roles that each have successively more permissions.

I'll admit that this is just my personal preference, and I have no real horse in this race.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 
The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)


moderated Re: Moderator privileges

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Bob,

         Thanks for the words of support.  One of the groups on which I'm a moderator on groups.io has me do one, and only one thing:  manage the archive.  This is by agreement (no formal paperwork necessary in this case, but I see why it would be in yours) and the group's owner and other moderator can still call upon me on an as needed basis to "pick up" for them when they will be away (which has never happened since both have never been absent at the same time).

          When it comes to moderators, you have to trust those you chose for the role impilictly, including that they will exercise only the powers you agree to, even if the software in a given venue gives them broader powers.

           Software can become virtually impossible to manage if it allows each and every possible option to be configured.  One can see this in a number of office suites, where no one knows anything near to each and every option that's available and it's often very difficult to find the ones you actually want when you want them.  It's not that this style cannot be created, but it has its pitfalls, and they're not insignificant.

            On another site where I moderate there are "levels" above the moderator that do have even broader powers.  Moderators there cannot ban members nor suspend posting privileges, while the roles global moderator, site admin, and admin (which is the big kahuna - the "God Role" that can alter anything and everything) all can.  And, of course, you have to trust those who are in those roles, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 
The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)


moderated Re: Moderator privileges

 

In answer to Brian's point about trusting moderators: there are degrees of trust. You might ask in a parallel fashion, why make some moderators co-owners and others not? The levels of trust are already built in to that extent, at least. And I would like more levels to be built in. There are some group members I trust to handle certain tasks, and others I trust with more. So I second the request being made here. I may have already made it in the past. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Moderator privileges

Bob Bellizzi
 

A moderator operates at some level in place of the owner with the owner's trust and permission.
Brian is absolutely right.
It's your responsibility as an owner to clearly define the duties of each moderator and to have agreement from each moderator they will carry out those duties.  Without that, it's chaos.
We have several moderators and their duties are clearly described in documents they have signed in addition to confidentiality agreements to protect our members' information.
We also have Mentors with similar agreements whose job is to help members to get the appropriate non technical information that we provide as patient advocates.  Mentors do not approve messages or do other technical group.io type things..
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Moderator privileges

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Not that I have any objection whatsoever to having a pick and choose "powers collection" for moderators if Mark were to create such, but it still leaves the question:  Why do you not trust your moderators?

The whole idea of moderators is that you have someone who can take care of things, when necessary, that can be trusted to do so, and if you don't want them doing certain things that the roles provided by the software allows stating that at the outset.  What limits them is that you trust them and you have an agreement with them about what it is you want them to do and not do.

If you can't trust your moderators not to do something you have asked, and they have agreed, not to do then those individuals shouldn't be moderators in the first place.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

Drew
 

On 10/12/18 23:43, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Changes to the site this week:
- NEW: In the group Hashtags page, each hashtag now has a Mute/Unmute link.
And with automatic expiration, great!

Have you given any thought to having muted messages not appear in the online archive display?

Drew


moderated Moderator privileges

 

I don’t plan to check the activity logs for a number of groups all of the time to try to keep up with numerous moderators. It just seems safer to limit what moderators can do instead of babysitting.

 

Beth,

That´s exactly the way I feel too. I strongly support this wish. Additionally I´d really like to see an automatic owner notification when members or moderators upload files, photos or links.

Victoria


moderated Re: Moderator privileges

Beth Weld
 

Thank you,
I know that you can see right after a change has been made, but I don’t plan to check the activity logs for a number of groups all of the time to try to keep up with numerous moderators. It just seems safer to limit what moderators can do instead of babysitting.


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • BUGFIX: When direct adding someone to a parent group and at least one subgroup that has a direct add message, we weren't not sending out the subgroup's direct add message.
  • BUGFIX: When adding a member to a subgroup, we weren't including the direct add message, if one was set.
  • BUGFIX: For groups set to moderate messages with attachments, the Emailed Photos album would not show up.
  • BUGFIX: For certain database table searches, only the first page would be displayed. Other pages would be blank.
  • API: Return group_name with subscriptions.
  • CHANGE: For pending message notification emails, add a link at the top to view the message online.
  • CHANGE: If a topic has a tag that is moderated, make sure we display the moderated icon in the Topics view for that topic.
  • CHANGE: Updated the list of not permitted groups on the create group page.
  • NEW: First pass at a help section for the upcoming group payments system.
  • CHANGE: For the event and reminder emails, for all day events that last more than one day, show both start and end days (we previously only showed the start day).
  • BUGFIX: For a pending message sent from a subscriber who then unsubscribes before the pending message is viewed, do not show the View Member/Send Message buttons.
  • BUGFIX: When editing a database row, when you return to view the previous page, the per page setting was ignored.
  • BUGFIX: If a topic is locked and has a hashtag that is set to reply to sender only, replying on the website was not permitted.
  • BUGFIX: The web server would crash when viewing a past member that had been subscribed to a subgroup that no longer exists.
  • NEW: In HTML digests, there are now hashtag mute links in the message footers. I also did some editing of the text of the other links, removing some words to make space.
  • NEW: In the group Hashtags page, each hashtag now has a Mute/Unmute link.
  • CHANGE: Reformatted the mute/unmute hashtag pages to match modern style.
  • BUGFIX: If you are the owner/moderator of a parent group viewing a poll in a subgroup that you are not subscribed to, you should not be permitted to vote in the poll, because votes are keyed to subscription records.
  • BUGFIX: If multiple owners voted in a subgroup poll, the count and display would be off in the View By Answer poll view (only one owner's vote(s) would be displayed).

Have a good weekend everyone.

Mark


Re: Strip Out Embedded images #suggestion

 

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 10:50 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

As you may know, images can be embedded in HTML formatted messages using a few different schemes, only one of which ("cid") would be subjected to the existing group Attachments control, and apparently that is also the only scheme that gets listed in the Emailed Photos folder. https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/11066

We should be automatically converting data: images into cid: attachments, which should then appear in Emailed Photos. If there are instances of that not happening, please send me a pointer to them at support as that's a bug.

Thanks, Mark


Re: Strip Out Embedded images #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

Um, I would still would like a group option to do this, for reasons already mentioned.

Just trying to divert things before a heated discussion breaks out over the Oxford comma. :-)

Bruce


moderated Re: Language

Walter Underwood
 

English compounding varies over time. Decades ago, “data base” was correct, then “data-base”, and now we use “database”. The AP Style Guide insisted on using “web site” until April 2010, when they allowed “website”. Both “baby sitter” and “babysitter” are correct.

When working on the Netflix search engine several years ago, I needed to add about three hundred synonyms to handle the “one word or two?” problem, things like Fullmetal Alchemist and Full Metal Jacket. My favorite was the movie Ghostbusters. Though Hollywood is famously picky about trademarks, the poster has that as a single word and the title sequence has that split into two words on two lines, “Ghost Busters”.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

On Oct 12, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:

I’ll fight to the death that proper grammar and structure are important and should be retained no matter.  For instance, one does not know when something may become unclear (to someone else.) What’s the big deal about doing something properly, too much work? More likely ignorance is bliss. 
We all know what it means when getting a txt or email like “Their going to meet us at the restaurant.”  Or “Your a valued customer.”  It doesn’t make it any more palatable jus cuz you know what was meant. 
A compound adjective is a compound adjective. Period (or en dash.)



moderated Re: Language

 

Hi All,

As a language nerd myself, I certainly enjoy an extended discussion on language. But this is not the group for that. Please take it off-line.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Language

KWKloeber
 

I’ll fight to the death that proper grammar and structure are important and should be retained no matter.  For instance, one does not know when something may become unclear (to someone else.) What’s the big deal about doing something properly, too much work? More likely ignorance is bliss. 
We all know what it means when getting a txt or email like “Their going to meet us at the restaurant.”  Or “Your a valued customer.”  It doesn’t make it any more palatable jus cuz you know what was meant. 
A compound adjective is a compound adjective. Period (or en dash.)


moderated Re: Language

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 05:40 PM, ro-esp wrote:
I never heard of en dashes and em dashes and thought they were the same as hyphens....
Most do and would.  The distinction is much more one of typesetting, where their length is ever so slightly different.  I know of very few people who don't interpret a small black line between two words, or a prefix and a word, as needed regardless of what typesetting convention was used for it, including hyphen.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Language

 

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 02:53 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
(not em dash)
...or en dash, take your choice. (Em dashes and en dashes, too, are slightly different from each other.)
Bottom line, no hyphen, en dash, or em dash is required here.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Language

 

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 02:40 PM, ro-esp wrote:
Gender based should have a en dash.
I had to look up that one. I never heard of en dashes and em dashes and thought they were the same as hyphens..
The complaint should have been that "gender based" requires a hyphen, not an em dash. So that's the first problem. Second, the hyphen is NOT required. Not any more, according to AP style and other style conventions. Hyphens are going out of style to the extent that they should be left out except where the meaning is unclear. The meaning is perfectly clear in this case, so the hypen (not em dash) is unnecessary.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Language

ro-esp
 

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 05:42 AM, J_Catlady wrote:

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 07:58 PM, Sharon Villines wrote:
Gender based should have a en dash.
I had to look up that one. I never heard of en dashes and em dashes and thought they were the same as hyphens....

It's a style issue.
No it's not. It's a matter of clarity. "gender-based/genderbased" is one word, an adjective. "gender" is a noun, "based" is a verbform, a participle.
"overpopulated/over-populated" is one word, not two

They're going out of style, and I would not use unless
meaning is unclear. I'm fine without it.
I'm not. Excessive use of spaces is killing clarity, both in English and Dutch.

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated thumbing-up messages in a locked thread

ro-esp
 

I recently saw a locked thread, and noticed I could no "like" any messages. Is this intentional or coincidence?

If intentional, what's the rationale behind it?

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Moderator privileges

Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@...>
 

If you want to know what moderator did what, you can look in the activity log for your group.

On Oct 12, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Beth Weld <bethweld77@gmail.com> wrote:

It would be very helpful to be able to limit what a moderator can do in terms of files, photos, databases, and wikis. Right now the moderator permissions don't control those by individual, and while someone might need to be able to upload files they might not need to be able to create a table as an example. It seems to be all or nothing for these items, and that could make changes very difficult to track in the future.
Thanks
Beth

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