Date   

locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Yep.  Duplicate received.  This reply is coming to you via Gmail in Verdana with green as the color.

That last message is the first that has ever carried over the font, though my default font is Garamond and perhaps that's one that Groups.io substitutes for, as it can't have every possible font out there.

Brian

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
I thought I'd be mowing the lawn right now, but putting the oil-fuel mixture meant for the string trimmer into the lawn mower has put the kibosh on that until the resultant flooding in the engine can dry out and plain gasoline get put in instead!  That's what I get for rushing around!!

I've reset my subscription to "All Messages" and profile to "always want" and am sending this reply from the Gmail web interface, not the Groups.io forum interface.  I'll report back regarding whether I'm getting a duplicate as of this morning.  It was 100% consistent in giving me duplicates yesterday.

I'm also using Comic Sans as my font and blue-purple as my color and suspect the blue-purple will carry over.

Brian



--
Bri the Tech Guy          http://britechguy.com
britechguy@...            (540) 324-5032 or (540) 849-0023                            
"If it's got you screaming, I'll help you stop!!"


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I thought I'd be mowing the lawn right now, but putting the oil-fuel mixture meant for the string trimmer into the lawn mower has put the kibosh on that until the resultant flooding in the engine can dry out and plain gasoline get put in instead!  That's what I get for rushing around!!

I've reset my subscription to "All Messages" and profile to "always want" and am sending this reply from the Gmail web interface, not the Groups.io forum interface.  I'll report back regarding whether I'm getting a duplicate as of this morning.  It was 100% consistent in giving me duplicates yesterday.

I'm also using Comic Sans as my font and blue-purple as my color and suspect the blue-purple will carry over.

Brian


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

Maria,

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 07:53 am, HR Tech wrote:

So, to confirm,  it's correct that if I am set to "daily digest" or "no email" but have "always want copies..." enabled I don't see a copy of a message sent via groups.io web interface in my gmail sent box (or inbox til i get the digest)?

I think that's correct (I don't pay as much attention as I should to digest mode, so I'm not sure). But I think I see where you're going with this. The word "always" always bothered me in that phrase. It is wishy-washy - because what is its negation? "Sometimes not"? But when I asked Mark about it early on, I began to understand from him that the ways of the various email clients are unpredictable (if I understood even a glimmering of it), and that the hedging was necessary.

But yes, it seems to apply only to when the subscription is "individual email." I see now that it is falsity if someone is subscribed via digest. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Maria
 

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 07:30 am, J_catlady wrote:
You're not doing anything wrong. The behavior you're getting is what's supposed to happen.

Ok. Thanks!

So, to confirm,  it's correct that if I am set to "daily digest" or "no email" but have "always want copies..." enabled I don't see a copy of a message sent via groups.io web interface in my gmail sent box (or inbox til i get the digest)? But that if I am set to "all messages" i do see a copy in the "sent" box and it's also tagged "inbox" there and of course i see it in my inbox as well because i'm set to get all messages? Or is something not working there?

Maria


locked Re: Reminder for "Following Only" Digest/Email Recipients that there are more/new topics?

Frances
 

Agreed. People do set and forget.

Frances


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

Ro,

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 07:36 am, Ro wrote:


in my own email settings on firefox, I have it set to send me copies of sent messages.

Thanks for that info, Ro. I'm using the same email and same browser for all of my groups. I've never looked at the setting, but I don't believe I have it set because I don't receive copies for any of my other sent messages (except in my "sent" folder, of course). Also, weirdly, the bad behavior (I won't call it a "bug" at this point) happens only in two of the three groups I own, and none of the groups i don't own. However, this morning things have changed and I'm looking into it again.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Ro
 

I havent read all this thread, so pardon if this has been mentioned.

in my own email settings on firefox, I have it set to send me copies of sent messages.

If i checked this setting in IO, I would recieve a copy from IO.

This would result in my recieving two copies of my sent email.

so if this reason is why its happening, its not a bug, but the program is functioning properly.

Since I get copies of ALL my sent email via my email server, I do NOT have the "always want copies" checked on IO, and have never gotten duplicate emails.


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





Subject: Re: [beta] Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"?
To: beta@groups.io
From: j.olivia.catlady@...
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 07:34:06 -0700

To elaborate:
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 07:30 am, J_catlady wrote:

duplicate messages in our inboxes when posting via email.
when subscription is set to individual emails and "always want copies" is checked. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 
It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Maria
 

Hmm. Actually I do have copies but they are in the "sent" folder. I see messages there that were sent via groups.io web interface while I had the all messages setting enabled and are in the sent folder in the gmail interface and are also marked with "inbox" tag. I don't see any from when I posted via web and had my settings set to "no email".

Maria


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

To elaborate:

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 07:30 am, J_catlady wrote:

duplicate messages in our inboxes when posting via email.

when subscription is set to individual emails and "always want copies" is checked. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

Maria,

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 07:15 am, HR Tech wrote:

Maybe I am doing something wrong, or didn't follow this thread close enough

First, thanks for looking into this. You're not doing anything wrong. The behavior you're getting is what's supposed to happen. You're not getting the bug. What's been happening to me in my test and admin groups (until, oddly, this morning), and to Brian, is duplicate messages in our inboxes when posting via email.

As I said, after doing this for (at least 6?) months, it has suddenly stopped this morning. I'd given up on anything ever being done about it, after reporting it about six months ago, figuring it was just something odd about my admin group. The group was set up around the time the feature was being implemented, as I recall, and I wrote it off to that, until yesterday upon seeing Brian's post. It has me intrigued now, and although I don't have the slightest chance of being able to figure it out, not being privy to dMarc and all the other arcane details of email, I would like to at least figure out the circumstances under which it occurs, if I can. It has been a real annoyance to me in my admin group but I'd managed to reconcile myself to it, up until now. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Maria,

          My testing was done using beta as the group.  The only time I get duplicates is when my subscription is "All Messages", "always want" is active, and I originate a post via e-mail.  If I originate the post via web everything goes as expected.

          I turned off both "All Messages" and "always want" last night at the termination of my diagnostic experiments.  
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Maria
 

Just played around with this with one of our gmail accounts to see if what I see is helpful.

I have "i always want copies..." clicked in the profile.

I tried:

- With Daily Digest selected as the email delivery setting, sent a post from web and from email and didn't get a copy in the inbox

- With All Messages selected as the email delivery setting, sent a post from web and from email, I get one email in the inbox which seems like the one delivered from groups.io as it says it's from "me" in the inbox and when you view the email it says "name" via groups.io . It says "new" and the counter goes up by +1

- With No Email set as the preference, sent a post via web and via email and received nothing in the inbox

Maybe I am doing something wrong, or didn't follow this thread close enough and my test is N/A - or my gmail inbox is set up differently...but I'm actually not getting duplicates nor copies of the sent messages in the gmail inbox. I'm using the gmail web interface.

Maria



locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

Brian,

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 06:11 am, Brian Vogel wrote:

I have two copies in my inbox

Me, too. Both are announced as new incoming messages, they both land in the inbox, and the conversation thread is bumped up for both of them. So if I send a single message, the conversation thread count in email is "2." That's unlike the usual behavior for gmail in posting to a mailing list. In that case the message does appear in the inbox (as well as the sent folder), but only unobtrusively as the conversation proceeds, and it is only counted as one message in the thread, not two. This is two distinct, incoming messages.

I'm going to run some more tests this morning in my test group. So far, it has been flakey this morning and not happening consistently. I see why Mark was unable to reproduce it. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Reminder for "Following Only" Digest/Email Recipients that there are more/new topics?

Maria
 

I see that the individual emails (not digests) have info on them such as:

"You receive all messages sent to this group.
You automatically follow any threads you start or reply to"

Just adding that to this thread to be thorough - I am not sure what these say when you are not set to receive ALL messages?

Maria


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 02:05 am, Laurence Taylor wrote:
You don't _receive_ duplicate messages when posting from Gmail;

For the record:  Yes, I do receive duplicate messages.  I have two copies in my inbox plus the expected item in sent mail.

I've been using e-mail since the 1980s.  I can accurately describe what I'm observing.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Reminder for "Following Only" Digest/Email Recipients that there are more/new topics?

Maria
 

I was looking at one of my test accounts; one that is set to receive digests of only topics that are specifically being followed, and I was wondering if there is any way to automatically remind recipients of digests and emails who have  the "only following" setting that there are more/new topics to pick from within the message archive?

This ties in to my concerns about the "following only" option and the description in the advanced preferences area (https://groups.io/g/beta/thread/2069633#9060) but tackles it from another angle.

If someone sets their advance preferences in a way that they didn't intend to, or if they forget they were set to "following" only, it would be great for the digest to automatically remind them that they are set for "following only" and that they can visit the web archive to see/follow all/other new topics. It took me a few minutes to realize why I hadn't gotten a digest in that test email account in a few days and then when i found the last one, it only had one post, and then i remembered I was using it to test this feature.

Even if people had intentionally set themselves to "following" only, I think it would be a nice idea to remind folks that there are more topics to follow. Seeing a digest with only a few posts could give an impression that a group isn't active (when it actually is). Maybe you've forgotten about your settings and haven't visited the web interface for a while... I am concerned that this could give a false perception which in turn could affect group participation.

Currently the Digest says: "This is a digest for xxxx @ groups.io. Change Your Subscription"

Maybe if the digest is for someone who is "following only" or similar, it could say:

"This is a digest for xxx @groups.io. There are xxx new topics in your group. Follow New Threads and Hashtags, Change Your Subscription"

(where "follow new threads/hashtags" would link to "all messages" and "new" refers to in past 24 hours")

or

"This is a digest for topics/hashtags you are following on xxx @ groups.io. Change Your Subscription, Follow New Threads."

or in an individual email:

"You are following this thread/hashtag on xxx @ groups.io. Change Your Subscription, Follow New Threads and Hashtags."

Or maybe there can be a section at the bottom of the messages followed - but before the footer - that lists linkified titles only of all new topics in the past 24 hours. A "More recent topics: Please click here to follow them" section that brings you to the "all messages" section where you can read and/or start to follow them.

Maria





locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

ps There's something else I just noticed: the behavior only occurs is my admin group and my test group (both of which I own), but not my main group ( which I also own) or the beta group. In fact, none of it happens in my main group or beta, and in those two groups distinctly, I don't receive my messages if the box is not checked. I'm the two 'problematic' groups, I receive the copies no matter which method I post, and I distinctly get two duplicate incoming messages when the box is checked and I post from email. The admin group is also the group where I had the member complaint.

In a weird way, the inconsistent behavior makes it worse because I can't do one or the other. If I uncheck the box, I don't get messages from sons groups. But if I check it, I get duplicates in two of them. Can you think of what might be different between the groups? I use the same email for all of them.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 12, 2016, at 3:33 AM, J_Olivia Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

typo - artifact, not arid act

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 12, 2016, at 3:31 AM, J_Olivia Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks. I used to assume that it was the sent message plus the incoming message, but I eventually rejected that idea. I've seen the behavior you describe in other mailing lists I'm on and it's completely different. In what you describe, the 'sent' message simply appears within the message thread. It does not conspicuously arrive, on its own, into the inbox as it does here; gmail doesn't announce that there's a new message, as it does here; and gmail does not add 1 to the thread counter, as it does here. So I'm perplexed. You might still be right. As I said, I am very ignorant when it comes to the workings of email. But this walks like a duck (incoming message) and that's what I have to call it. Plus, it only appears when the box is checked, so the duplicate seems to be an arid act of the Grouis.io workaround.

There are now three people whom I personally know of who have experienced this - me, Brian, and the one group member of mine who complained. Wondering if there are others?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 12, 2016, at 2:05 AM, Laurence Taylor <g7mzh@gmx.co.uk> wrote:

You don't _receive_ duplicate messages when posting from Gmail; one is the
message you sent, and in most mail reders would be in the "sent" folder.
Gmail puts these in with the incoming emails. The duplicate is the one
received via the reflector (if you select that option).

If you read your mail offline with an email client on your PC, none of this
applies and Gmail behaves the same as any other provider.

Perhaps there is a case for Groups.io to issue a new message ID for every
post and forget about the option.


--
rgds
LAurence
<><


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

typo - artifact, not arid act

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 12, 2016, at 3:31 AM, J_Olivia Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks. I used to assume that it was the sent message plus the incoming message, but I eventually rejected that idea. I've seen the behavior you describe in other mailing lists I'm on and it's completely different. In what you describe, the 'sent' message simply appears within the message thread. It does not conspicuously arrive, on its own, into the inbox as it does here; gmail doesn't announce that there's a new message, as it does here; and gmail does not add 1 to the thread counter, as it does here. So I'm perplexed. You might still be right. As I said, I am very ignorant when it comes to the workings of email. But this walks like a duck (incoming message) and that's what I have to call it. Plus, it only appears when the box is checked, so the duplicate seems to be an arid act of the Grouis.io workaround.

There are now three people whom I personally know of who have experienced this - me, Brian, and the one group member of mine who complained. Wondering if there are others?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 12, 2016, at 2:05 AM, Laurence Taylor <g7mzh@gmx.co.uk> wrote:

You don't _receive_ duplicate messages when posting from Gmail; one is the
message you sent, and in most mail reders would be in the "sent" folder.
Gmail puts these in with the incoming emails. The duplicate is the one
received via the reflector (if you select that option).

If you read your mail offline with an email client on your PC, none of this
applies and Gmail behaves the same as any other provider.

Perhaps there is a case for Groups.io to issue a new message ID for every
post and forget about the option.


--
rgds
LAurence
<><


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

 

Thanks. I used to assume that it was the sent message plus the incoming message, but I eventually rejected that idea. I've seen the behavior you describe in other mailing lists I'm on and it's completely different. In what you describe, the 'sent' message simply appears within the message thread. It does not conspicuously arrive, on its own, into the inbox as it does here; gmail doesn't announce that there's a new message, as it does here; and gmail does not add 1 to the thread counter, as it does here. So I'm perplexed. You might still be right. As I said, I am very ignorant when it comes to the workings of email. But this walks like a duck (incoming message) and that's what I have to call it. Plus, it only appears when the box is checked, so the duplicate seems to be an arid act of the Grouis.io workaround.

There are now three people whom I personally know of who have experienced this - me, Brian, and the one group member of mine who complained. Wondering if there are others?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 12, 2016, at 2:05 AM, Laurence Taylor <g7mzh@gmx.co.uk> wrote:

You don't _receive_ duplicate messages when posting from Gmail; one is the
message you sent, and in most mail reders would be in the "sent" folder.
Gmail puts these in with the incoming emails. The duplicate is the one
received via the reflector (if you select that option).

If you read your mail offline with an email client on your PC, none of this
applies and Gmail behaves the same as any other provider.

Perhaps there is a case for Groups.io to issue a new message ID for every
post and forget about the option.


--
rgds
LAurence
<><


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Possible bug with "I always want copies of my own messages"? #bug

Laurence Taylor
 

You don't _receive_ duplicate messages when posting from Gmail; one is the
message you sent, and in most mail reders would be in the "sent" folder.
Gmail puts these in with the incoming emails. The duplicate is the one
received via the reflector (if you select that option).

If you read your mail offline with an email client on your PC, none of this
applies and Gmail behaves the same as any other provider.

Perhaps there is a case for Groups.io to issue a new message ID for every
post and forget about the option.


--
rgds
LAurence
<><