Date   

locked Re: Preventing Reply to Group/Sender mixups AND quoted messages #bug

 

J,

In my view this is not "just a UI" issue. It goes deeper. PM'ing is an
action distinct from "reply" and should be treated as such.
Well here I'm going to agree with what you said, while disagreeing that it ought to be applied here.

I suspect that "PM" carries with it semantics (expectations) that are wholly different from what a "Send to Sender" means in Groups.io. That is part of why I object to that model being applied.

I think Brian mentioned that he would expect (and prefer) that a PM be a wholly separate thing: not carry in the subject line nor a quote from the original message. If that's what you're imagining then that's not Send to Sender and you are not solving the problem at hand: you're proposing something else entirely, something Mark has said he's thought about, a forum-like PM system.

The other key bit of semantics involves the word "Private". Brian may correct me, but I don't think a forum PM generally produces an email message carrying the replyer's email address. Send to Sender does - it really is an offlist message with far more in common with a group message than with a "PM" in the forum sense.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Preventing Reply to Group/Sender mixups

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
Why can't Reply work the way it works when a Group Owner clicks on New Topic - but in addition to the Drop Down on the From line (to choose either his personal address or his owner's address), the To line would have a Drop Down as well - defaulting to the group default (to choose either Reply to Group or Private Message). The available Send button below should mirror the selection in the To line and should be switchable any time before the message is actually Sent.

Linda


locked Re: Missing the HTML/Markdown/Plain control in New Topic and Reply #bug

Duane
 


locked Re: Testing the test version

 

Sue,

Obviously now I know I can live with it, but that's not quite how I
envisaged a 'toggle' working. Unless I'm still missing something, of
course.
I've been keeping a browser tab aside for the /test page, using the back button immediately after switching modes (and then refreshing the page so it shows my current mode). I kind of wish it didn't dump me Your Groups page, and refreshed itself instead.

Then I go back to whatever tab I was in and refresh it so that I now see it in the new mode.

I'm looking at this on the desktop, tabs may not be quite so easy to manipulate in mobile, so there may be a better trick there.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Feedback on New Mobile Test Version

 

Mark,

Note: Contrary to the thread tags, I'm looking at this on desktop. Probably the same applies to mobile.

- There's a paperclip button in the editor toolbar now to add attachments.
- I've removed the 'Insert Quoted Message' button and replaced it with a
button in the editor toolbar.
I think these changes would be welcome also in the Markdown and Plain Text modes, even though those modes don't have any other tools in the toolbar. They feel out of place to me as buttons next to Send, Preview, and Discard.

- I've changed the spacing/ordering of the Reply/Like/More buttons.
It is a bit startling if you click the Reply button after beginning your composition: the composition boxes and buttons hide away. I guess that button is acting like a toggle for the reply mode. Fortunately the text you've entered stays there if you click it again to bring the reply UI back out.

Also fortunately, if you do happen to roll up an unsent reply and move on that nascent reply eventually becomes another draft.

That said, I think it might be more friendly to have the Reply link disabled once you've begun a reply, and have Send or Discard be the only ways close the reply mode.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Searching the archives

Carlos
 


Thanks Brian.  I figured that was most likely the case, but it was worth asking.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Searching the archives

Carlos,

           At the moment, I do not believe this is possible by any built-in mechanism and I have posted recently about using the site: operator of virtually any search engine to do complex searches.

           Searching this part of groups.io [groups.io/g/beta] for your name, archives, and search returns the following from Google.  This current thead is not yet shown because the crawl to include it has not yet taken place.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Searching the archives

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Carlos,

           At the moment, I do not believe this is possible by any built-in mechanism and I have posted recently about using the site: operator of virtually any search engine to do complex searches.

           Searching this part of groups.io [groups.io/g/beta] for your name, archives, and search returns the following from Google.  This current thead is not yet shown because the crawl to include it has not yet taken place.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Missing the HTML/Markdown/Plain control in New Topic and Reply #bug

Shal Farley
 

Mark,

When in the test version on desktop I'm not seeing any control to set the message body format - HTML, Markdown, or Plain Text.

Nope. Wasn't under the "More" button (not that I thought it would be).

Absent that it is only the presence of the "Preview" button that tells me I'm in Markdown mode rather than plain text. Worse, I wouldn't want to have to bounce out to my profile to change the selection for just this message.

And I seem to to have lost the link to the markdown guide on github.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked add "changed posting status" to group's Member Activity log #suggestion

 
Edited

I see "changed posting status" in a member's own activity page, but it does not seem to be logged in the overall Member Activity. It would be convenient to have log entries for that there as well.

EDIT: I meant "changed email delivery," not "changed posting status." And actually I see it in neither the overall Member Activity log nor the member's individual Activity log.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Why is there a 2 beside "New Topic" in my left menu? #bug?

 

Full confession: I, too, was confused. And I still have to go through mental gyrations each time I click on it. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 4, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

This comes right back to tying two unrelated tasks that share nothing but the fact that one has to type something and lumping them under a single action.

I was confused, and because of how I tend to scan pages it took more than a second for me to realize what was up.  Even though I now know this, and it does not cause me any confusion, it still feels like an unnatural arrangement.  I can't think of any other place (but I'm sure someone will know of one - again, outlier) where the edit draft(s) function is not separate from New Topic/Compose.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: search within message view returns threads #bug?

 

Mark,

Before I was prioritizing threads, now I'm prioritizing messages.
Basically, we return all messages that match, and then any threads that
also match that aren't already 'covered' by the returned messages.
I'm not entirely sure what "covered" means (at least one body match in the thread?) but I still believe that reporting the Subject match is NOT redundant, and should not be suppressed.

Threads are still listed first in relevance order.
But apparently only if they aren't "covered".

That's just weird ("I know I saw this subject line, but it isn't here in the search results").


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Preventing Reply to Group/Sender mixups AND quoted messages #bug

Maria
 

On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 01:24 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
Very deliberate actions must be taken, and prior to hitting send, which require that one is very clear about what one is doing.  

I agree that a deliberate action to go to / have the non default option kick in is ideal. So the default option has more weight.

That was a key part of the two visuals I mocked up and I think central to Shal's suggestions too.

Maria


locked Re: Why is there a 2 beside "New Topic" in my left menu? #bug?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

This comes right back to tying two unrelated tasks that share nothing but the fact that one has to type something and lumping them under a single action.

I was confused, and because of how I tend to scan pages it took more than a second for me to realize what was up.  Even though I now know this, and it does not cause me any confusion, it still feels like an unnatural arrangement.  I can't think of any other place (but I'm sure someone will know of one - again, outlier) where the edit draft(s) function is not separate from New Topic/Compose.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: search within message view returns threads #bug?

 

Mark,

If we find a match with a thread title, we don't also display any
matching messages (ie. search matches within the message body), because
that would lead to duplication/confusion.
Actually, I think that would be less confusing. That is, I don't think it is duplicative to show the Subject match (once) and each of the body matches (even when those bodies are part of the same thread as the subject match).

Also, I would group all Subject matches ahead of body matches, with the relevance or date sort applied within each group. Maybe that should be an option, but I find it odd to have them intermingled even when the bold face (in test version) tells me where the match is.

And (again) when the user clicks on "Date" please don't flip the date sort order unless Date was already the selected order. I find it jarring when I'm in relevance order and I click on Date (newest first) to have it flop to oldest first.

One thing that Discourse has that I have not implemented yet is a
checkbox to search only within a thread. I could add that when you do a
search while viewing a particular thread. Would that help?
Yes please.

First step on the path toward having some filters. ;-)


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Preventing Reply to Group/Sender mixups AND quoted messages #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Maria,

           From the very document you linked to:


Tip: Click on the Post reply button (or the red Post Reply) in the first post to reply to the original topic creator. Click on Reply to Author under "More message options" to reply to the poster through private email. Click on Forward under "More message options" to forward the post to an email address.


Again, the "Reply to Author" is so far separated from the compose window, and it takes very deliberate action to make that change, we're back to "no accident is likely to happen."  Again, the option is not presented as a simple button choice under a compose box that is, barring a lot of other gyrations, interpreted as being a reply to group by default.

Very deliberate actions must be taken, and prior to hitting send, which require that one is very clear about what one is doing.  I'm not going to go back to see if the buttons change if one does a "Reply to Author" under "More message options," but my suspicion is that they do.

And, again, my point is not about specific mechanism so much as not having a mechanism that can result in something potentially profoundly embarrassing for the person writing a message if they hit "Send to Group" rather than "Send to Sender" [I'm using what's in Groups.io now, live version].  I've done it more than once and, thank heaven, what was said was not of a nature that I was embarrassed to have it in public.  I can say, with complete honesty and certainty, that I have never had this happen elsewhere because it's very difficult to make that mistake barring mind-altering substances coming into play.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Preventing Reply to Group/Sender mixups AND quoted messages #bug

Maria
 

There are many listserv based forums connected to association management providers that also offer reply to group/sender as options when a forum is set up. 

Also I'm not certain we can take Google groups off that list yet. The one group I'm still on only allows group replies because the admin set it up that way, but this help doc details a setup that would indicate that reply to sender is indeed and option in Google groups too via their web interface. 

https://support.google.com/groups/answer/1059071?hl=en

(I'm on mobile not reading closely so maybe I'm missing something in the details. )

Maria


locked Re: Why is there a 2 beside "New Topic" in my left menu? #bug?

 

On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 12:38 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
That is, any confusion they may have will be short-lived and won't lead to any negative consequences.

 I think it has already caused some confusion, even in this group. That's how the thread started. Short-lived or not (by whatever standard), it is confusing and could be improved
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Preventing Reply to Group/Sender mixups AND quoted messages #bug

 

On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 12:33 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
I think that it's a result of a natural extension of longstanding human practice,

That's what I'm saying, too. And to that I would add: the "longstanding human practice" is a result of human nature. Human nature ---> human practice ---> good software reflects both of those.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Why is there a 2 beside "New Topic" in my left menu? #bug?

 

Maria,

Agree, I think that the drafts page should be reached via an item in the
user nav bar and only on that item should you see the number -
otherwise a newbie will think :

" Oh there are 2 new topics!"
I don't think this is much of a problem. As soon as they click on it to see the "new topics" they'll see that the number attaches to the "Drafts" button - the nascent topics are their own.

That is, any confusion they may have will be short-lived and won't lead to any negative consequences.

-- Shal


locked Re: Preventing Reply to Group/Sender mixups AND quoted messages #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 11:41 am, J_catlady wrote:
Brian said the reason doesn't matter. I think it does matter.

 J, we're talking about different reasons, that's why.

I was responding to the assertion, "I think it's because someone decided to use an unconventional way of doing things and it caught on."

I don't think those ways were "unconventional" at all, but very logical extensions of existing conventions that go back to paper and pencil days.  They follow, as it seems everyone agrees, the straight line that is, Pick Recipient [address envelope/inside address on letter] -> Compose message [write note letter, etc.] -> Send knowing precisely what is being sent, and to whom, based on the nature of the process itself.

The way I read you as saying, "I think it does matter," is because it's a logical sequence of events with a completely predictable outcome (with, perhaps, the exception of the recipient's possible reaction to something).   I agree with that absolutely, but I think that it's a result of a natural extension of longstanding human practice, not anything that's the slightest bit unconventional except as forced by new technology.  The underlying steps are, at their essence, the same as they were long before computers were ever involved.

[And before anyone gets picky, yes I do know that people often composed letters before addressing the envelope, but the first line after the date, e.g., "Dear X," already determines that X is the intended recipient.  That's known prior to putting pen to paper.]

--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray

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