Date   

locked question

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

Under Privacy on  our new group, we have a choice of Listed in Directory, publicly viewable archives or private archives.  

Does publicly viewable archives mean that all the people on the group can view the archives or that every single person who has a group on groups.io can view the archives.  

I would like the archives to be viewable only to our members; but it gives me a warning each time I click on that one that it is not reversible.  

Secondly, we are having a bit of trouble with our cover photo.  We think we have it at 900 x 300 but its cutting off the hairdos of the ladies.  Can you offer some advise on how to get it the correct size??

thank you

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"




locked Re: Threads

 

Mark,

You cannot reply to digests on groups.io, the replies are blackholed
(ideally they should bounce back; it's on the todo list).
In Yahoo Groups the "Fully featured" digests each message has a mailto: link that allows one to reply to that message. The mailto: URL syntax allows them to provide To, Subject, and even body text, but I don't know that it could allow the placement of a In-Reply-To or other arbitrary field.

The other option for the reader of a digest is a link to reply via the web site. That brings one to the message in the archive, possibly with the reply compose window already open. That could work, as the normal reply would have the necessary field.

-- Shal


locked Site changes on 10/16/14 #changelog

 

Changes to the site today:

- Several issues involving message processing for plain text only groups were fixed.
- Email with multiple text parts in multipart/mixed or multipart/related chunks was not processed correctly, leading to only the last part being shown. That's been fixed.
- Improved stripping of Groups.io footers from replies.
- A couple of tweaks to the website HTML.
- Addition of groupname+owner@groups..io address in email footers (actually happened Tuesday afternoon)..

Mark


locked Re: suggestion: subgroups (was private hashtags) #suggestion

 

I hadn't thought about the +owner parallel. That makes me like the group+subgroup@groups.io idea more. I agree with you about being about directly add people from the group into the subgroup; that makes sense.

I will put this on the TODO list.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

 Hmm. At first blush doesn't feel like it should be a #hashtag thing, but
 maybe a groupname+subgroup@groups.io thing. Hashtags are more for
 archive organization and muting.
 
 Anyone else have any thoughts on subgroups?

Well, the owners and moderators of a group are a natural example of a sub-group; one partially supported via the groupname +owner@groups.io address. The usual reason that Yahoo Group moderators create a separate group for the mods/owners is to keep an archive of the messages, and possibly files and other resources, which isn't available via the +owner email forwarding.

Another take on that idea would be to make the groupname+subgroup addresses (including +owner) fully instantiated groups, but with lowered (different) join ceremony. Specifically the +owner subgroup would come into existence automatically, and members promoted to moderator or owner role could be joined to it by virtue of that promotion.

Other subgroups could be created ad-hoc by a moderator (with that privilege) or an owner, and the moderator/owner would be able to selectively add members to the subgroup without the overhead of invitation. I don't think it should be possible to join the subgroup(s) without being a member of the root group. It could be an option in each subgroup whether members can see the existence of the subgroup; and joining could be controlled by an option with the usual three choices (any root member can join, any root member can request membership, membership by anointment only).

Hmm... there's a namespace collision problem with +subscribe, +unsubscribe or any future email commands. There are probably other problems, I haven't thought this through for longer than it took to type this.

-- Shal



locked Re: Threads

 

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 5:27 AM, ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:

If someone sends a completely new email (compose instead of reply)
that happens to have the exact same subject as another thread, it's still
considered a new thread.

That could be somewhat problematic when someone replies to part(s) of a digest, wouldn't it?

You cannot reply to digests on groups.io, the replies are blackholed (ideally they should bounce back; it's on the todo list).

Mark


locked Re: Threads

 

From all the data I've seen (mainly the email corpuses I assembled when I started working on groups.io back in January), In-Reply-To and/or References are more or less universally supported by email clients, and have been for at least a decade. So, I'm pretty comfortable relying on them. Plus, I'm not crazy about having an arbitrary time factor.

Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> If someone sends a completely new email (compose instead of reply) that
> happens to have the exact same subject as another thread, it's still
> considered a new thread. The system figures this out by mainly by
> reference information encoded in the email headers by everyone's email
> programs. There is no time component.

Hmm, using the absence of the In-Reply-To or References fields to mark a new thread has the problem that neither field is mandatory. I don't know if there are any major email services/clients that don't support one or the other (or both), but that was the usual motivation for using "Or" logic rather than "And" (the subject matches or the field matches an existing member of the thread).

But maybe that's no longer (much of) an issue. I like the way using "And" neatly solves the "stale thread" problem without having an ad-hoc time limit.

-- Shal



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locked Re: Threads

ro-esp
 

markf@corp.groups.io sendis:

Frances,

Here's how a thread happens. Someone sends a message. Others reply to that
message, or to other replies. All of those are in one thread. If someone
replies, but changes the subject, then that becomes the start of a new
thread.
that's how it should be

If someone sends a completely new email (compose instead of reply)
that happens to have the exact same subject as another thread, it's still
considered a new thread.
That could be somewhat problematic when someone replies to part(s) of a digest, wouldn't it?

groetjes, Ronaldo


--
http://www.esperanto.net http://www.moneyasdebt.net


locked Re: Threads

 

Mark,

If someone sends a completely new email (compose instead of reply) that
happens to have the exact same subject as another thread, it's still
considered a new thread. The system figures this out by mainly by
reference information encoded in the email headers by everyone's email
programs. There is no time component.
Hmm, using the absence of the In-Reply-To or References fields to mark a new thread has the problem that neither field is mandatory. I don't know if there are any major email services/clients that don't support one or the other (or both), but that was the usual motivation for using "Or" logic rather than "And" (the subject matches or the field matches an existing member of the thread).

But maybe that's no longer (much of) an issue. I like the way using "And" neatly solves the "stale thread" problem without having an ad-hoc time limit.

-- Shal


locked Re: suggestion: subgroups (was private hashtags) #suggestion

 

Mark,

 Hmm. At first blush doesn't feel like it should be a #hashtag thing, but
 maybe a groupname+subgroup@groups.io thing. Hashtags are more for
 archive organization and muting.
 
 Anyone else have any thoughts on subgroups?

Well, the owners and moderators of a group are a natural example of a sub-group; one partially supported via the groupname +owner@groups.io address. The usual reason that Yahoo Group moderators create a separate group for the mods/owners is to keep an archive of the messages, and possibly files and other resources, which isn't available via the +owner email forwarding.

Another take on that idea would be to make the groupname+subgroup addresses (including +owner) fully instantiated groups, but with lowered (different) join ceremony. Specifically the +owner subgroup would come into existence automatically, and members promoted to moderator or owner role could be joined to it by virtue of that promotion.

Other subgroups could be created ad-hoc by a moderator (with that privilege) or an owner, and the moderator/owner would be able to selectively add members to the subgroup without the overhead of invitation. I don't think it should be possible to join the subgroup(s) without being a member of the root group. It could be an option in each subgroup whether members can see the existence of the subgroup; and joining could be controlled by an option with the usual three choices (any root member can join, any root member can request membership, membership by anointment only).

Hmm... there's a namespace collision problem with +subscribe, +unsubscribe or any future email commands. There are probably other problems, I haven't thought this through for longer than it took to type this.

-- Shal


locked Re: Searching archive

 

Hmm, it does appear there's a bug there. I'll fix it.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:
Hi again

It seems that the Archive search box for a specific group operates differently if you search by thread view or by message view.

If I go to a specific group, and search for the word hashtags in Thread View, I only get results from that specific group. This is what I would expect..

If I search for the word hashtags in Message View, I get results from all groups - I think only from all that I belong to.
Not a problem, but I think you should have something that tells the user what results he or she will get.

Frances




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locked Re: Inbox, Archive and muting

 

Frances,

I agree that it is a little confusing right now. And you are correct, right now in the Group view, there is no way to mute a thread. I will add that to the TODO list. 

Right now the only place to unmute a thread is going to the home page/Inbox view, and clicking on Muted Threads.

I use Inbox view to refer to all the messages from all the groups you're subscribed to. And I use Archives to refer to messages from a particular group. Do you (or anyone here) have any suggestions for better words for these?

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,

I have a question or two about the way Groups.io works.

There seems to be two views for messages - an Inbox for all groups I belong to (Home), and a screen for each group I belong to. (from Home, choose Your Groups).

These operate quite differently and I find it confusing.

I like that I can see all recent posts for ALL my groups at once in one place (the Inbox). But sometimes, I just want to see messages from one specific group.

The All-groups (Home) screen has an Inbox.
The specific groups screen only has an Archive and the Top Posters list. No Inbox. However there is a Messages label which seems to be for moderation purposes at some point.

If I want to mute a thread,  I can only mute a thread through the website if I go to all threads for ALL groups I belong to, i.e. to the Inbox.

However, I cannot mute a thread from the specific group - from Archives. I can see a link to examine muted threads, but cannot not mute another one.
If I select Thread View (not Message View) in Archives, I can edit a thread - close a thread or make it a sticky.
This might be a logical place to mute a thread.

Also, I see I can also edit a thread from an email - there is an option at the bottom of the email to mute the thread - at the bottom of the Digest email.

I was also wondering where / how I can un-mute a thread. For example, I might want to mute a thread if someone is becoming tedious! But later, I might want to hear any new discussion on the topic.
Or am I missing something?

Frances





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locked Re: Threads

 

Frances,

Here's how a thread happens. Someone sends a message. Others reply to that message, or to other replies. All of those are in one thread. If someone replies, but changes the subject, then that becomes the start of a new thread. If someone sends a completely new email (compose instead of reply) that happens to have the exact same subject as another thread, it's still considered a new thread. The system figures this out by mainly by reference information encoded in the email headers by everyone's email programs. There is no time component.

If someone mutes a thread, they're only muting that particular thread, not every message with a particular subject.

Hope this helps.

Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:
Hi again

I was wondering how threads work.

We have a travel discussion forum so some wording might appear on different posts and appear to be a thread. Like “Rome hotel”.

It is particularly important if someone has muted a thread and now wants new posts.

So, does the algorithm just see the word order and group it as a thread? Is there a time component? Can old threads be restarted by someone using the same words and word order?

Frances




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locked Re: suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

 

Hmm. At first blush doesn't feel like it should be a #hashtag thing, but maybe a groupname+subgroup@groups.io thing. Hashtags are more for archive organization and muting.

Anyone else have any thoughts on subgroups?

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:
- Hadn't thought about archives, but likely prefer to have them hidden from non-members.

- Joining: ATM I'd be great with manually adding members, but did imagine an "application" or "subscribe" option that let me say to the entire group "Hey, I'm starting a side-thread about X EVENT, please send an email with #xevent in the subject to our list to join that thread(s)". Maybe an option to make that automatically in, or in after approval by a mod/admin.

- Yeah, a subgroup email would be nice - I'm mostly worried about doing it all inside of one major group. 

Thanks!
Derek 




-
Derek Shanahan                  


// email: derek@...

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hmm, subgroup by hashtag. Interesting. Would you want the archives of this subgroup to be available to all the members of the group or just the people in the subgroup? Would you want anyone in the group to be able to join this subgroup if they wanted?

It would be like pre-muting a hashtag for everyone except the subgroup members.

I've thought about other ways to do subgroups. Creating a special group address like groupname+subname@groups.io, for example.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:
Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'







locked Threads

Frances
 

Hi again

I was wondering how threads work.

We have a travel discussion forum so some wording might appear on different posts and appear to be a thread. Like “Rome hotel”.

It is particularly important if someone has muted a thread and now wants new posts.

So, does the algorithm just see the word order and group it as a thread? Is there a time component? Can old threads be restarted by someone using the same words and word order?

Frances


locked Searching archive

Frances
 

Hi again

It seems that the Archive search box for a specific group operates differently if you search by thread view or by message view.

If I go to a specific group, and search for the word hashtags in Thread View, I only get results from that specific group. This is what I would expect.

If I search for the word hashtags in Message View, I get results from all groups - I think only from all that I belong to.
Not a problem, but I think you should have something that tells the user what results he or she will get.

Frances


locked Inbox, Archive and muting

Frances
 

Hi Mark,

I have a question or two about the way Groups.io works.

There seems to be two views for messages - an Inbox for all groups I belong to (Home), and a screen for each group I belong to. (from Home, choose Your Groups).

These operate quite differently and I find it confusing.

I like that I can see all recent posts for ALL my groups at once in one place (the Inbox). But sometimes, I just want to see messages from one specific group.

The All-groups (Home) screen has an Inbox.
The specific groups screen only has an Archive and the Top Posters list. No Inbox. However there is a Messages label which seems to be for moderation purposes at some point.

If I want to mute a thread, I can only mute a thread through the website if I go to all threads for ALL groups I belong to, i.e. to the Inbox.

However, I cannot mute a thread from the specific group - from Archives. I can see a link to examine muted threads, but cannot not mute another one.
If I select Thread View (not Message View) in Archives, I can edit a thread - close a thread or make it a sticky.
This might be a logical place to mute a thread.

Also, I see I can also edit a thread from an email - there is an option at the bottom of the email to mute the thread - at the bottom of the Digest email.

I was also wondering where / how I can un-mute a thread. For example, I might want to mute a thread if someone is becoming tedious! But later, I might want to hear any new discussion on the topic.
Or am I missing something?

Frances


locked Re: suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

Derek Shanahan <derek@...>
 

- Hadn't thought about archives, but likely prefer to have them hidden from non-members.

- Joining: ATM I'd be great with manually adding members, but did imagine an "application" or "subscribe" option that let me say to the entire group "Hey, I'm starting a side-thread about X EVENT, please send an email with #xevent in the subject to our list to join that thread(s)". Maybe an option to make that automatically in, or in after approval by a mod/admin.

- Yeah, a subgroup email would be nice - I'm mostly worried about doing it all inside of one major group. 

Thanks!
Derek 




-
Derek Shanahan                  


// email: derek@...

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hmm, subgroup by hashtag. Interesting. Would you want the archives of this subgroup to be available to all the members of the group or just the people in the subgroup? Would you want anyone in the group to be able to join this subgroup if they wanted?

It would be like pre-muting a hashtag for everyone except the subgroup members.

I've thought about other ways to do subgroups. Creating a special group address like groupname+subname@groups.io, for example.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:
Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'






locked Re: suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

 

Hmm, subgroup by hashtag. Interesting. Would you want the archives of this subgroup to be available to all the members of the group or just the people in the subgroup? Would you want anyone in the group to be able to join this subgroup if they wanted?

It would be like pre-muting a hashtag for everyone except the subgroup members.

I've thought about other ways to do subgroups. Creating a special group address like groupname+subname@groups.io, for example.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Derek Shanahan <derek@...> wrote:
Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'





locked suggestion: private hashtags #suggestion

Derek Shanahan <derek@...>
 

Not sure this is the spot for feature suggestions, but I find myself needing...

A way to message a sub-set of the group (leaders) privately from the larger general members. I realize I could set up a 2nd groups.io Group, but it'd be nice to do this with hashtags.

- Pick a hashtag (ie #leaders)
- Denote it 'anointed members only' (ie don't email to entire group, just members)
- Admin/mods can manually select 'anointed members'




locked Tuesday site changes #changelog

 

I'm going to start posting what changes have been made to the site. I'll do so under the hashtag #updates, so if you're not interested in the minutia, you can mute it.

Changes to the site today:

The Delete Message button appears in more places, and now shows when a user is viewing a message that they've authored. A couple message deletion bugs were also fixed.

Periods are no longer allowed in group names. People were creating groups with names that were just URLs.

Recompiled everything with a newer version of the Go postgresql library, trying to squash a random crashing bug.


Mark