Date   

locked Re: Disable archives?

David P. Dillard
 

One of the great features of discussion groups in my humble opinion is collecting the wisdom and knowledge of group members in a searchable recorded body of posts so that one can benefit from the contributions
at later dates when seeking specific information. Why would one not want archives, private for members only or public. If public one also can use Google to find content in Groups IO discussion group archives. Why would one want to not have archives, except in cases of legal issues such as a medical list and HIPAA?





Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Mon, 12 Jan 2015, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Hi all,
Hope it is ok to ask on here, but what are your thoughts on disabling archives altogether? I'm surprised this isn't an option as both Yahoogroups and Googlegroups have this facility. In fact, Mailman does too.
Thanks for any comments on this.








locked Re: Calendar is live

David P. Dillard
 

First of all, I took a look at your Yahoo Groups shipwreck page and it is very interesting.

You mention use of groups by people with disabilities. As a result of a lawsuit against Penn State on the issues of web accessibility, colleges are industriously making their web pages accessible. I have quite a few research guides made private until redone in accessible formats, all created before this was an issue. We were also admonished of a tool on Mozilla called the Wave test. I use this regularly. I just tested two group vendors, Yahoo had twelve accessibility errors on the page I tested. Nabble had 40 accessibility errors, a list on JISC using Listserv had four. Groups IO had one error and this would pass if it was on Temple University web space. In short, Groups IO may be the most accessible discussion group server out there, there are others I did not test as I just wanted members to be aware of this added benefit of Groups IO.

Everyone have a great week.




Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015, Feathered Leader wrote:

I know it's an old message but I HAD to reply to this:
David P. Dillard wrote on 11/10/14:>>There is also another matter to consider here when making comparisons with matter to
consider here when making comparisons with Yahoo Groups, Google Groups and Facebook. When is the last time you saw the owner
of any of these corporations posting how to use these groups information daily, answering questions and so forth. This is not
duplicated in any other group service. The user is basically on their own.<<
AMEN TO THAT!
As the organizer and founder of the Yahoo Crusade of 2013-2014, ---2015? I completely appreciate the fact that we not only
have a beta testing area to work in, but that we have a compassionate, caring and open-minded individual such as Mark, to help
us rebuild or salvage so much of what we have lost.
When Yahoo upended Classic Groups, we had no warning. People were caught so off guard, lost archives, photos, some lost whole
groups. No one cared. When we begged to just let us go back into Classic and retrieve our archives, photos, and other data,
and then we would leave forever, never to complain again, we were still denied that.
Maybe many people did learn that archiving is important, but I still believe that Yahoo was completely wrong in blindsiding so
many people, many of them handicapped, the way that they did. So someone like Mark, who is willing to listen to us, modify
things, tweak this or that, is a God Send.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post I just read that it would be hard to populate this site without seeding groups. I
completely disagree. Just tell the thousands and thousands of Yahoo Group users that it is here. That's all it would take. And
since I have just now discovered this on January 9th, 2015, that is exactly what I intend to do. Just give me a little time,
as my elderly parents tend to take up a lot of it!
We posted once, on the Yahoo Crusade blog, "If you code it, we will come:
"https://modsandmembersblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/if-you-code-it-we-will-come/
He's coded it. We've discovered it, and trust me....we'll come.
Brenda
Nightowl >8#
Yahoo Crusade Leader
https://modsandmembersblog.wordpress.com/
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/modsandmembers/conversations/messages


locked Re: "My posts" view option #suggestion

David P. Dillard
 

You may want to consider a Gmail email account as a "notebook". It is searchable with Google search and will be a place you can send all the messages you think you may need in the future as well as notes you want to send yourself with the ability to search word and phrase combinations when you need specific information rather than spending lots of time paging through a notebook trying to find a hidden treasure. One can even have different email accounts for different subject areas if one wants. You can also send your group members specific archived messages from that email to answer their questions and have that message also in your archive for future use.




Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015, Feathered Leader wrote:

Thank you, Shal!
I need to get a notebook out and start jotting all this down! I'm only up to having read message1- 22 so far, but I'm learning
a lot!
Brenda


locked Just finished reading the archives here

Nightowl >8#
 

Hi Mark,

I just finished reading all 600+ messages in the archives here, in chronological order and it was really enlightening! Thank you for allowing me to be able to easily do that. It's just what I needed to do! I made lots of notes!

A couple of things I'd like to note for you:

1. Having no database is a deal breaker for so many Yahoo Group owners, that if you considered providing that option instead of/or along with the wiki, I think you would find that a lot more groups would want to come here from there.

2. The ability to add members directly is also another deal breaker for many people, and not just as the one time fee thing, (which could be negotiated).

Maybe there could be a way to allow ONLY the group owner to add maybe just 5-10 members per month, or some other semi-reasonable number that might allow you to implement this for free without having the abuse issues of adding a lot at once.

The reason so many Group owners need this add-members feature so badly, is that SO many Yahoo users are elderly, handicapped or both, and not at all tech savvy.  One of my own moderators in my MM group has this very problem with the members in her group. So even sending them an invite does not work. -- So this is something I hope you'll consider.

3. Archives in my opinion, should have the ability to remain intact and unedited, if the owner prefers it that way. Other than someone deleting their own posts, which should still be allowed. But that's just my opinion, and isn't a deal breaker for me, as I archive all my own data all the time. But for someone who uses it for say, a research group, they might want it to be static, which maybe could be an option?

Meanwhile, you are rapidly approaching the ability to be an actual viable substitute for most, if not all, Yahoo groups. Trust me, I know. I've been down in the Trench in the Yahoo Feedback Forum. I've been all over Twitter fighting with Jeff Bonaforte himself. I have seen it all, heard it all, all the horror stories, all the losses. Groups.io can be the answer to all of those prayers!

I miss the ability to customize our groups with color and such, but even that is something I can live without because you don't have horrible font color on horrible background color, which was blinding in NEO. Still, it would be nice if the font and background of messages or posting windows were somewhat customizable for vision impaired or affected people to be able to choose the best choices for them. White isn't always the best choice.

I've been trying to rescue the disabled/vision impaired/elderly contingent from Yahoo Groups for over a year now, and told Bonaforte that I would NOT wait 2 years for Yahoo to fix things. So like I said, our rescue ship is on the horizon! And we can't thank you enough.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#
(who needs to get to bed now!)




locked Re: Disable archives?

Nightowl >8#
 

I would never want my archives tampered with, disabled or other. That's my personal preference. Otherwise, why bother having an on-site group interface? I prefer to do everything on the web site Interface, so I would never want anything to be missing there.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Susan B,

Regarding deleted items - in a group here, we would not want members
editing or deleting their own posts and would not even want it if
proposed edits and deletes had to go to moderators for approval first.
I think a group should always allow a member to delete his/her own posts, without moderator intervention. That would be in keeping with the principle that the member owns his/her content, and that participation is voluntary.

We would like all posts to go to a Pending area as they do on Yahoo, and
to be able to approve, edit or reject the messages (reject with or
without an explanation).
Those features already exist.

In the group's Settings page you can check the "Moderated" box to moderate all messages, and/or the "New Users Moderated" box to set new members' subscription to moderated. You can also set the moderation for individual members via their "Posting Privileges", click their entry in the Members list. This works similarly to Yahoo Groups.

In the pending page you can Approve, Edit, Reject, or Delete the pending messages. Reject sends back a reply to the member, Delete does not.

We would like all Files to be in alphabetical order,
You can click on the column headings to sort alphabetically, by type, by size or by modified date.

and since we are in the U..S. we want dates to be written Month, Day,
Year - and not European style.
If this becomes an option, I would hope it is an option in the member's profile or subscription, not a group-wide setting. But there has been another thread, "Dates on Groups.io" where this has been discussed further.

I would prefer to see the word "Archives" on the left changed to
"Message Board." To me, archives implies old stuff ("the dusty archives
of the library"), not curent messages.
My only concern with calling it "Messages" or "Message Board" relates to a mistake which has happened in Yahoo Groups: some instances have been reported where a novice moderator mistook the Messages section for a kind of personal inbox. So they deleted the messages as they read them. I think "Archives" better reflects their precious value as the only on-line copy of the messages.

I am unable to find a place to change email preferences.
Look on the "Subscription" page.

I am getting all emails as the messages post, which is fine with me, but
all are coming in plain text and links are unclickable. I am using
Windows Mail on Windows 7.
Perhaps there's an option in Windows Mail to automatically linkify URLs in plain text messages. That's a default behavior in email clients such as Eudora Classic and Thunderbird.

Most messages from other sources come to me in HTML with clickable
links. These seem to be coming in plain text. I am hoping there's an
option for html emails.
In Groups.io messages come through in the way they were posted, be that plain text or formatted.

I would like to see an option to read messages threaded or flat (as they
come in, chronologically). There are good uses for both, and sometimes
you want one, and sometimes the other.
In the Archives, Thread View or Message View, at your service.

Searching: Should be able to search using any word you choose. Hashtags
don't matter in that case.
That's what the Search box does.

-- Shal


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Nightowl >8#
 

Hi Susan!

Glad you're here! I just finished reading the entire archives of this Beta group, (yes, 600+ messages), and I'm trying to learn all I can. But I'm asking Mods & Members people to give me all the help they can, because as you know, my elderly parents seem to command a lot of my attention these days. ;)

What I would ideally LOVE someone to do, is to compare this list below from the Blog post of "If You Code it we will come"  to the list of what is available here. Then I could give MM more information about what is already implemented, or will be implemented here, so that they would have more to consider when thinking of moving their groups.

So anyone who wants to help in that way, have at it! The list is below!

Thanks!

Brenda

**********************************************************
modsandmembersblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/if-you-code-it-we-will-come/

CREATE FOR US A NEW CLASSIC FORMAT.

Here is what we need for our Groups Platform:

  • An interface that is accessible through both mail and website.
  • Customizable home pages where we can choose colors, fonts, photos, and sizes for the group pages.
  • The ability to have all messages appear in a single list, not in individual forums.
  • Message archives that are stored and always available through page view.
  • Messages ordered chronologically (newest or oldest first) or by threads as desired.
  • Messages that have post #’s and are searchable.
  • Controls that are readily visible and don’t require mouse-over.
  • Full moderation tools for Group owners for members, messages, attachments, etc.
  • A My Groups page where moderators can see all their groups and whatever moderation tasks are needed for each one.
  • Ability to access member lists by page view and export the whole list into a PDF file, Excel, database, etc.
  • Capability to handle a large number of members (don’t know the limit for Yahoo’s Groups).
  • A section to store links.
  • A section to store files.
  • A working interactive database.
  • An event calendar accessible to all.
  • Ability to invite members
  • Ability to add members.
  • Ability to import an existing member list from another group.
  • Ability to ban or preban members.
  • Ability to have the member’s real name associated with their e-mail on the member’s list for Owner/Mod view only.
  • Hosting for photos, with lots of storage, customizable photo organization and sorting options.


locked Re: Appearance of home page

Nightowl >8#
 

Dan!!!!!

Great to see you here!

Brenda


locked Re: Group transfers

Nightowl >8#
 

Linda,

Yahoo may close down Groups anyway. They haven't been maintaining or fixing or anything in their regard for some time.

Personally, I would like to see everyone rescue their archives and delete their old Yahoo groups, so that Yahoo would get the message that they failed with their shiny new NEO design.The more "empty" unused groups that sit over there, just serve to be something they can "claim" exists, to their advertisers. When in reality, they are not active or generating content for ads whatsoever.

But I also know you can't legally just put the archives of a Yahoo Group somewhere else online. So it's akin to starting over. Still, having the archives even in a zip file and sending it to any members that would want it would be a start.

Having been in this fight since August 31, 2013, and struggling to get the world to see what Yahoo has done to disabled, elderly and the rest of us, I'm ready to start the exodus. As soon as groups.io can serve as the place to go, I encourage everyone to start over here.

I still however, encourage people to archive their data. Even someone like Mark, who is kind and caring and understands the value of archives, can NOT promise that something might not happen to destroy the content. So I implore everyone to safely archive their data, whether starting over or staying put. It's the smart thing to do where the Internet is concerned.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#



locked Re: Wiki

Nightowl >8#
 

Weighing in on the Wiki/Database discussion.

Many of the Yahoo Groups users have been stymied from finding a new Groups location simply because there was no database/spreadsheet option.

I don't understand Wikis and I didn't  use the database personally, (although my members did in MM), but I promise you, if you add a database function, you will win hands down. I can guarantee that, as a 130,000 member group of high school students and twenty-somethings deleted their groups on Yahoo over that loss.

And they aren't the only ones.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Site #changelog

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark, I've been reading the archives, starting at message # 1, and there are a few messages with the text still collapsed, but it wasn't a big deal. I just clicked the three dots, read it, and moved on.

Just for your FYI.

Brenda


locked Re: Receiving own messages

Nightowl >8#
 

Ian wrote on 12/8/14:>>If there were a "Return my own posts: Never, If Edited, or Always" button I'd leave it on "Always" - the reflection is an indication that the post has been received and distributed; it could have failed without a bounce message being sent.<<

Absolutely. I always have my own posts come back to me in e-mail. That also another way I can archive them, especially when Yahoo NEO prevented the expanded message view archiving I used to be able to do.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

Nightowl >8#
 

Once again, replying to an older message:

Shal wrote on 11/21/14:>>Infinite scroll suits some people. Notably Yahoo Groups and Groups.io have both adopted that style for for presenting message lists and messages in topic.<<

And that implementation alone was one of the worst things they did to us. Many people, including me, cannot handle infinite scroll. My hands go numb and fingers tingle. Handicapped people couldn't handle it, it was an absolute nightmare. We always depended on the page view, which thankfully, Mark has included here, and we always counted on being able to use message numbers.

I am on Twitter, I admit it, as @featheredleader. But I got on Twitter for only one reason: to crusade against Yahoo. Mind you, it came in handy also when Ferguson, Missouri found itself in the midst of rioting and arson, (Yes, I live very near there, and grew up there), but even then I can't handle endless scroll. Only reason I can handle it some on Twitter is I use a Mouse with a button command and because it does end, it's not endless.

So in response to the "Please don't make this like Facebook" comments, my comment is if there is such a thing as an endless scroll, please please, make it optional.

My biggest problem with Facebook however, has little to do with how it's formatted in general. It has to do with how it works...where everyone and their brother can link and connect to you and see your posts and three parties down's posts and etc. NO privacy, NO protection.

If I wanted to be that connected, I wouldn't have stayed with Yahoo Groups as long as I have.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#




locked Disable archives?

christopher hallsworth <challsworth2@...>
 

Hi all,
Hope it is ok to ask on here, but what are your thoughts on disabling archives altogether? I'm surprised this isn't an option as both Yahoogroups and Googlegroups have this facility. In fact, Mailman does too.
Thanks for any comments on this.


locked Re: Calendar is live

Nightowl >8#
 

I know it's an old message but I HAD to reply to this:

David P. Dillard wrote on 11/10/14:>>There is also another matter to consider here when making comparisons with matter to consider here when making comparisons with Yahoo Groups, Google Groups and Facebook. When is the last time you saw the owner of any of these corporations posting how to use these groups information daily, answering questions and so forth. This is not duplicated in any other group service. The user is basically on their own.<<

AMEN TO THAT!

As the organizer and founder of the Yahoo Crusade of 2013-2014, ---2015? I completely appreciate the fact that we not only have a beta testing area to work in, but that we have a compassionate, caring and open-minded individual such as Mark, to help us rebuild or salvage so much of what we have lost.

When Yahoo upended Classic Groups, we had no warning. People were caught so off guard, lost archives, photos, some lost whole groups. No one cared. When we begged to just let us go back into Classic and retrieve our archives, photos, and other data, and then we would leave forever, never to complain again, we were still denied that.

Maybe many people did learn that archiving is important, but I still believe that Yahoo was completely wrong in blindsiding so many people, many of them handicapped, the way that they did. So someone like Mark, who is willing to listen to us, modify things, tweak this or that, is a God Send.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post I just read that it would be hard to populate this site without seeding groups. I completely disagree. Just tell the thousands and thousands of Yahoo Group users that it is here. That's all it would take. And since I have just now discovered this on January 9th, 2015, that is exactly what I intend to do. Just give me a little time, as my elderly parents tend to take up a lot of it!

We posted once, on the Yahoo Crusade blog, "If you code it, we will come:

"https://modsandmembersblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/if-you-code-it-we-will-come/

He's coded it. We've discovered it, and trust me....we'll come.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#
Yahoo Crusade Leader
https://modsandmembersblog.wordpress.com/
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/modsandmembers/conversations/messages









locked Re: Invitation limitations

christopher hallsworth <challsworth2@...>
 

You know what I can duplicate this. I'm wondering if this is a bug?




On 12 Jan 2015, at 04:45, D R Stinson <dano@...> wrote:

I sent an invitation to one of my groups and realized after I sent it that there's no place to save a standard invitation message. Having that option would save a lot of work reinventing those same messages.

I then went into Invitations and clicked on Outstanding Invitations. Hoping to see the message I'd sent (and maybe copy the text), I clicked on the recipient's email, which was live, and it dumped me into my inbox. Is there a way to review an invitation message that was sent?

Dano


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 


Brenda,
Thank you. I've only been on the site a few hours... I just found the box where you input the number. I am not sure how I would know what number I'd want to input but guess I'd eventually figure that out. I also just found where it says thread view, message view, expanded message view.
 
I found "Inbox" and am not sure how it differs from, or meshes with, "Archives." And at the moment I don't know how I found "inbox" so can't get back to it. <g>
 
I liked what you did with your blog. I got here because I saw your message on SayNo2Neo.
 
Susan B
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 11:13 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Susan,

You can read the messages chronologically or threaded on the group site. Click on individual messages, input the number you want to start from, and hit next to read.

Hope that helps!

Brenda


locked Views on Inbox page

 

When I click on the [GROUPS.IO] in the upper left hand corner of the page, it takes me to my inbox. This is great because I can see what's going on everywhere at once. However I can only see it in Thread View. Can it be set up like the individual Archives view with [Thread View], [Message View], and [Expanded Message View]?

Dano


locked Re: Dates on Groups.io

 

On 1/11/2015 8:27 PM, Susan B wrote:
Actually, there is still confusion because some people put the day
before the month and some put the month before the day.
Yes - which is why spelling out at least the first 3 letters
of the month, and using a 4-digit year - would work for any
date. 13-MAY-2015 = MAY-13-2015 = 2015-MAY-13 = 2015-13-MAY.

Only other language I'm familiar with is Spanish - and the
above would be the same in Spanish. (May = Mayo)

The other option I mentioned is the option used by Excel -
allow the person to choose their own format - but since
I am not the programmer here, I'm not sure which option
would be easier to implement.

dg


locked Invitation limitations

 

I sent an invitation to one of my groups and realized after I sent it that there's no place to save a standard invitation message. Having that option would save a lot of work reinventing those same messages.

I then went into Invitations and clicked on Outstanding Invitations. Hoping to see the message I'd sent (and maybe copy the text), I clicked on the recipient's email, which was live, and it dumped me into my inbox. Is there a way to review an invitation message that was sent?

Dano