Date   

locked Re: Interruption while composing a post

 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

> So, my request is to have some kind of a pop up message appear when you
> leave the composing page that asks if you want to send the message, save
> the draft or delete the message or something similar.

Good idea.
(#6058): https://groups.io/g/beta/message/6058  ;-)

Implemented. If the form is dirty (ie. you type anything in either the subject or message fields), and attempt to leave the page, you'll get a dialog warning that your message will not be sent. Consider it a first pass until I can do more work on the post page.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 04:07 pm, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:
The buying/selling group that I moderate, has a rule that DOES NOT allow an ad that has been submitted and approved to be edited. 

 That's a good example, too. I could even see legal, or semi-legal, issues with an offer that's accepted and then changed without the other party's knowledge (because, for example, that person wasn't using email or hadn't checked the site for any update to the offer).

J


locked Re: Editing messages

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 02:51 pm, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
The suggestion was made for a preview window. I don't see how that'd help, given that the edit window is already WYSIWYG.

 That's interesting, because the member who edited her post 11 times last night told me it was because the font size looked different after the message posted from how it looked in the edit window. I've asked her next time to leave it alone and let me know, so that I can see the font-size problem she's referring to. I think she was copying and pasting links, so perhaps there's something strange or different going on with that.

As far as a preview window in general, the other forum I mentioned (in response to Shal's suggestion for a preview window) is also WYSIWYG. Yet somehow, seeing the post come through in a preview always helped me tremendously. It might be psychological. There was no technical reason for the other site to do it, either. Sometimes things look different after you hit "Send" and see the message come through.

J


locked Re: group I left sent "sorry to see you go" notice w no content #bug?

 

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 10:05 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I thought the "sorry to see you go message" was not sent out if it was not filled in. However, today I left an inactive group and received a blank message with subject "sorry to see you go," no content.


It shouldn't. Please send me the name of the group off-list and I'll investigate.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

Judy F.
 

Here is another reason why editing should be an option on/off.  The buying/selling group that I moderate, has a rule that DOES NOT allow an ad that has been submitted and approved to be edited.  That message is rejected and the seller must submit an entirely new ad. 

 

Want to make sure everyone understands that this is not a ‘Freecycle’ type group, but a regular Yahoo Group that is dedicated to buying and selling certain types of items. 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: J_catlady [mailto:j.olivia.catlady@...]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 6:32 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Editing messages

 

Here's why turning off editing may be desirable for some groups and not others (and this is just an example): in a group in which almost all users use web-access only,  the editing feature would be very useful and would cause few problems.  But in group where almost everyone is using email, the owner might want to set editing to 'only moderators can edit' if Groups.io were to provide that option.

 

 I, or any group owner, might want to allow editing by subscribers in one group but not in another, depending on the characteristics of the group, its members, and how people are using it. Providing the option just gives group owners more flexibility.

 

J


Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:12 PM, J_Olivia Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I think queueing the edits up for a minute or two and only sending the last one might be a good idea. But any longer than that, or moderating all edits, seems like a bait and switch. I can see it causing users anger and frustration ('where did my edit go?' etc). 

J

 

J

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Ro <recarlton@...> wrote:

That seems like a lot of work.  I would rather have the setting to turn off peoples ability to edit at all if the group owner so desires.   Most edits in the groups I am in are tiny things, not worthy of multiple posts. 

No I am absolutely against all edited posts going to moderation!  that is more work, not less!  But of course, this would be an optional setting for the moderators to choose.  since i would never choose it, it of course would be useless for me.   I am already annoyed at GETTING all these edited posts via direct mail, much less having to moderate them.  The whole point is not to have to re read these posts for some tiny correction.  My time is more valuable than that.

Delaying the posts a minute or two does nothing for those on direct email.

Likewise, queuing up edited emails again does nothing for those on direct email.  We still get them. 

yes, the ability to turn off peoples editing is the most direct and efficient way to solve the direct email problem. 


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.

 




Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:51:52 -0800
Subject: [beta] Editing messages
From: markf@corp.groups.io
To: beta@groups.io

Hi All,

 

Sometimes people will tweak their messages using the Edit function and instead of doing all their changes in one fell swoop, they'll edit and edit, each time generating a new email to the group. Off the top of my head, here are some ideas about how to address this. I have not thought through all the implications of these. Just brainstorming.

 

- Group setting so that all edits are moderated, regardless of the subscriber's settings.

- Like we do with some integrations, hold off for a minute or two before sending out the edited message, in case another edit comes in. Only send out the last one received.

- Queue up edits and only send them out once a day, and if there are multiple edits, only send the last one.

 

Other suggestions appreciated.

 

The suggestion was made for a preview window. I don't see how that'd help, given that the edit window is already WYSIWYG.

 

Thanks,

Mark


locked Re: Various Questions

 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:39 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


Then you receive two emails. First the "Confirm your Groups.io Account" message, then followed very shortly by the Welcome message from the group. There's possibly a slight problem with the confirmation email: while it is correct and proper that it is all about confirming one's account, it makes no mention of the group you were trying to join. I don't know how difficult it would be to customize that message to reference the group, but I feel that "Thank you for your interest in [groupname] at Groups.io" would be a lot more reassuring than "Thank you for your interest in Groups.io".

Added.

 
But the real problem I'm seeing happens when you click on the "Confirm account" link in that message (assuming you decide to do that next). You are taken to a page that announces that your account has been confirmed, and lists the next things you might do: Set Up Your Profile, Find Groups, and Create Your Own Groups. Nowhere a mention of the group you just joined. Even the "Your Groups" drop-list in the logo bar only says "Your Subscriptions". "Visit [groupname]" probably should be at the top of your "next steps".

I've fixed the problem with the drop down not showing your subscriptions, and I've added a Visit Your Groups panel at the top if you're subscribed to any groups. You can see it here: https://groups.io/static/welcome . Suggestions for other improvements welcome as well.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Duplicate messages bug?

Duane
 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 03:10 pm, Ro <recarlton@msn.com> wrote:

I dont know how "accurate" archives are when there are multiple edited emails
that you have to use a word by word comparison to figure out whats been
changed. Just adds unnecessary messages to the archives IMO.
The archives only show the most recent version when reading through the messages. To see any of the earlier versions, you have to be on the site and click on the edit button in the upper right corner of the post.

Duane


locked Re: Editing messages

Duane
 

Of those ideas, I think the delay would work best. That should prevent multiple emails in most cases, unless the edits are a bit too far apart. A notice on the edit page (near the Save button?) could let folks know that there will be a delay for the edited post to appear. Since you're sort of doing this with integrations, it might be the easiest to implement.

Duane


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Here's why turning off editing may be desirable for some groups and not others (and this is just an example): in a group in which almost all users use web-access only,  the editing feature would be very useful and would cause few problems.  But in group where almost everyone is using email, the owner might want to set editing to 'only moderators can edit' if Groups.io were to provide that option.

 I, or any group owner, might want to allow editing by subscribers in one group but not in another, depending on the characteristics of the group, its members, and how people are using it. Providing the option just gives group owners more flexibility.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:12 PM, J_Olivia Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I think queueing the edits up for a minute or two and only sending the last one might be a good idea. But any longer than that, or moderating all edits, seems like a bait and switch. I can see it causing users anger and frustration ('where did my edit go?' etc). 
J

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Ro <recarlton@...> wrote:

That seems like a lot of work.  I would rather have the setting to turn off peoples ability to edit at all if the group owner so desires.   Most edits in the groups I am in are tiny things, not worthy of multiple posts. 

No I am absolutely against all edited posts going to moderation!  that is more work, not less!  But of course, this would be an optional setting for the moderators to choose.  since i would never choose it, it of course would be useless for me.   I am already annoyed at GETTING all these edited posts via direct mail, much less having to moderate them.  The whole point is not to have to re read these posts for some tiny correction.  My time is more valuable than that.

Delaying the posts a minute or two does nothing for those on direct email.

Likewise, queuing up edited emails again does nothing for those on direct email.  We still get them. 

yes, the ability to turn off peoples editing is the most direct and efficient way to solve the direct email problem. 


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:51:52 -0800
Subject: [beta] Editing messages
From: markf@corp.groups.io
To: beta@groups.io

Hi All,

Sometimes people will tweak their messages using the Edit function and instead of doing all their changes in one fell swoop, they'll edit and edit, each time generating a new email to the group. Off the top of my head, here are some ideas about how to address this. I have not thought through all the implications of these. Just brainstorming.

- Group setting so that all edits are moderated, regardless of the subscriber's settings.
- Like we do with some integrations, hold off for a minute or two before sending out the edited message, in case another edit comes in. Only send out the last one received.
- Queue up edits and only send them out once a day, and if there are multiple edits, only send the last one.

Other suggestions appreciated.

The suggestion was made for a preview window. I don't see how that'd help, given that the edit window is already WYSIWYG.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Duplicate messages bug?

 

I've posted instructions to my group members to minimize editing and to do it if only when there's an important factual correction. I've advised using a 'p.s.' instead when possible, and when not, to make the edit stand out by putting it (or part of it) in caps, and putting a pointer to the edit in the 'reason' box. I don't know whether this will mitigate the problem.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:10 PM, Ro <recarlton@...> wrote:

Moderators/Owners would still have the ability to allow editing of messages.   it would be an option that some would use and some wouldnt

I dont know how "accurate" archives are when there are multiple edited emails that you have to use a word by word comparison to figure out whats been changed.  Just adds unnecessary messages to the archives IMO. 


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:45:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [beta] Duplicate messages bug?
From: markf@corp.groups.io
To: beta@groups.io.
 
After tonight's fiasco, I agree even more strongly with @Ro that an option to disallow edits by group members would be a desirable feature.
I feel that to compete with all the other services, you need to be able to edit messages these days. I also think it's a good feature in general in that I think it leads to better, more accurate archives. That said, perhaps there are things we can do to address the 'million little tweaks' issue. I'll start another thread with some ideas.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Editing messages

 

I think queueing the edits up for a minute or two and only sending the last one might be a good idea. But any longer than that, or moderating all edits, seems like a bait and switch. I can see it causing users anger and frustration ('where did my edit go?' etc). 
J

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Ro <recarlton@...> wrote:

That seems like a lot of work.  I would rather have the setting to turn off peoples ability to edit at all if the group owner so desires.   Most edits in the groups I am in are tiny things, not worthy of multiple posts. 

No I am absolutely against all edited posts going to moderation!  that is more work, not less!  But of course, this would be an optional setting for the moderators to choose.  since i would never choose it, it of course would be useless for me.   I am already annoyed at GETTING all these edited posts via direct mail, much less having to moderate them.  The whole point is not to have to re read these posts for some tiny correction.  My time is more valuable than that.

Delaying the posts a minute or two does nothing for those on direct email.

Likewise, queuing up edited emails again does nothing for those on direct email.  We still get them. 

yes, the ability to turn off peoples editing is the most direct and efficient way to solve the direct email problem. 


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:51:52 -0800
Subject: [beta] Editing messages
From: markf@corp.groups.io
To: beta@groups.io

Hi All,

Sometimes people will tweak their messages using the Edit function and instead of doing all their changes in one fell swoop, they'll edit and edit, each time generating a new email to the group. Off the top of my head, here are some ideas about how to address this. I have not thought through all the implications of these. Just brainstorming.

- Group setting so that all edits are moderated, regardless of the subscriber's settings.
- Like we do with some integrations, hold off for a minute or two before sending out the edited message, in case another edit comes in. Only send out the last one received.
- Queue up edits and only send them out once a day, and if there are multiple edits, only send the last one.

Other suggestions appreciated.

The suggestion was made for a preview window. I don't see how that'd help, given that the edit window is already WYSIWYG.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Duplicate messages bug?

Ro
 

Moderators/Owners would still have the ability to allow editing of messages.   it would be an option that some would use and some wouldnt

I dont know how "accurate" archives are when there are multiple edited emails that you have to use a word by word comparison to figure out whats been changed.  Just adds unnecessary messages to the archives IMO. 


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:45:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [beta] Duplicate messages bug?
From: markf@corp.groups.io
To: beta@groups.io.
 
After tonight's fiasco, I agree even more strongly with @Ro that an option to disallow edits by group members would be a desirable feature.
I feel that to compete with all the other services, you need to be able to edit messages these days. I also think it's a good feature in general in that I think it leads to better, more accurate archives. That said, perhaps there are things we can do to address the 'million little tweaks' issue. I'll start another thread with some ideas.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Duplicate messages bug?

 

Mark,

For some reason, this request for the option to turn off editing, which was initiated by Ro, keeps being misunderstood as a request to remove the editing feature entirely. 

I agree with you that editing is a great feature! I don't think anyone is asking that it be removed. The suggestion is to allow  moderators to turn it off, at their option, in selected groups. I see that as making the product more, rather than less, competitive.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:45 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 11:29 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

 Something was definitely amiss because the Activity logged no edits at all by the user = just "sent messages." I thought it was part of the bug, but it turned out to be a separate bug that Mark says he will fix next week.

I've fixed the activity logging of edited messages now.
 

After tonight's fiasco, I agree even more strongly with @Ro that an option to disallow edits by group members would be a desirable feature.

I feel that to compete with all the other services, you need to be able to edit messages these days. I also think it's a good feature in general in that I think it leads to better, more accurate archives. That said, perhaps there are things we can do to address the 'million little tweaks' issue. I'll start another thread with some ideas.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Updates to Trello

Beta Integration <beta@...>
 


locked Re: Editing messages

Ro
 

That seems like a lot of work.  I would rather have the setting to turn off peoples ability to edit at all if the group owner so desires.   Most edits in the groups I am in are tiny things, not worthy of multiple posts. 

No I am absolutely against all edited posts going to moderation!  that is more work, not less!  But of course, this would be an optional setting for the moderators to choose.  since i would never choose it, it of course would be useless for me.   I am already annoyed at GETTING all these edited posts via direct mail, much less having to moderate them.  The whole point is not to have to re read these posts for some tiny correction.  My time is more valuable than that.

Delaying the posts a minute or two does nothing for those on direct email.

Likewise, queuing up edited emails again does nothing for those on direct email.  We still get them. 

yes, the ability to turn off peoples editing is the most direct and efficient way to solve the direct email problem. 


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:51:52 -0800
Subject: [beta] Editing messages
From: markf@corp.groups.io
To: beta@groups.io

Hi All,

Sometimes people will tweak their messages using the Edit function and instead of doing all their changes in one fell swoop, they'll edit and edit, each time generating a new email to the group. Off the top of my head, here are some ideas about how to address this. I have not thought through all the implications of these. Just brainstorming.

- Group setting so that all edits are moderated, regardless of the subscriber's settings.
- Like we do with some integrations, hold off for a minute or two before sending out the edited message, in case another edit comes in. Only send out the last one received.
- Queue up edits and only send them out once a day, and if there are multiple edits, only send the last one.

Other suggestions appreciated.

The suggestion was made for a preview window. I don't see how that'd help, given that the edit window is already WYSIWYG.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: only the first 20 of a member's posts come up #bug

 

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 7:57 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

If you click on a member to see their posts, the first 20 come up fine. At the bottom, the page says "1 - 20 of X" (where X is their total number of posts). followed by links ("2, 3, 4, …") to see the rest of their posts in groups of 20. However, when you click on page 2, the display reverts to the message list of the group as a whole.

Fixed!

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Editing messages

 

Hi All,

Sometimes people will tweak their messages using the Edit function and instead of doing all their changes in one fell swoop, they'll edit and edit, each time generating a new email to the group. Off the top of my head, here are some ideas about how to address this. I have not thought through all the implications of these. Just brainstorming.

- Group setting so that all edits are moderated, regardless of the subscriber's settings.
- Like we do with some integrations, hold off for a minute or two before sending out the edited message, in case another edit comes in. Only send out the last one received.
- Queue up edits and only send them out once a day, and if there are multiple edits, only send the last one.

Other suggestions appreciated.

The suggestion was made for a preview window. I don't see how that'd help, given that the edit window is already WYSIWYG.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Duplicate messages bug?to mark

jamie <jaimemcgill27@...>
 

hi mark
i had a double message tonight on one of my groups just thought i would let you know
jamie

On 15/02/2016 22:45, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 11:29 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

 Something was definitely amiss because the Activity logged no edits at all by the user = just "sent messages." I thought it was part of the bug, but it turned out to be a separate bug that Mark says he will fix next week.

I've fixed the activity logging of edited messages now.
 

After tonight's fiasco, I agree even more strongly with @Ro that an option to disallow edits by group members would be a desirable feature.

I feel that to compete with all the other services, you need to be able to edit messages these days. I also think it's a good feature in general in that I think it leads to better, more accurate archives. That said, perhaps there are things we can do to address the 'million little tweaks' issue. I'll start another thread with some ideas.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Duplicate messages bug?

 

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 11:29 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

 Something was definitely amiss because the Activity logged no edits at all by the user = just "sent messages." I thought it was part of the bug, but it turned out to be a separate bug that Mark says he will fix next week.

I've fixed the activity logging of edited messages now.
 

After tonight's fiasco, I agree even more strongly with @Ro that an option to disallow edits by group members would be a desirable feature.

I feel that to compete with all the other services, you need to be able to edit messages these days. I also think it's a good feature in general in that I think it leads to better, more accurate archives. That said, perhaps there are things we can do to address the 'million little tweaks' issue. I'll start another thread with some ideas.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: ? Pending members can join subgroups before approval #bug

Duane
 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 09:49 am, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Eek. Bad bug. Fixed. Thanks for the report.
Mark
Curious. Is there such a thing as a good bug? ;>)

Duane