Date   

locked Re: Code of conduct

 

Mark B., You're very convincing, I have to admit. I think of the code of conduct more as an issue of civility rather than censorship. However, I do see that it would be very hard to untangle the two.

J


locked Re: Code of conduct

 

Hi Mark,

It seems to me that every group on Groups.io already has the perfect Code of Conduct enforcement method in place:  if a member has an issue with something that has been posted, regardless of how popular or unpopular your viewpoint on that issue is, that member can ... leave the group.  Anybody who is offended by anything at all merely has to leave the group and will no longer be offended by anything posted in that group.  Really quite simple, and in its own way it's really quite elegant as well.

If a group's conduct becomes unacceptable to enough people there will no longer be a group;  problem solved, all by itself.  It's hard to be racist, sexist, or anything else-ist to others if there's nobody else there to listen!

If the group's conduct is acceptable to some or many people then those people will continue together as a group of like-minded individuals, whether here on Groups.io or elsewhere.  The question that immediately comes to mind when I hear code of conduct and private groups (and these are private groups, even if they are open to the pubic, unless they're supported by government money) is:  who is appointed the Official & Final Arbiter of Conduct?  And who decides who appoints this ultimate authoritarian?  And who decides who gets to decide who appoints him or her, ad nauseum.

Different people have different levels of tolerance, and depending upon the setting, circumstances, relationship of the individuals or group, etc., what may be nothing at all to one group of people may be utter blasphemy or outrageous behavior to others.  As some have already mentioned, Yahoo! bans certain words that can be considered vulgar or profane in some circumstances and are purely mainstream and acceptable in others:  bitch and ass come to mind (anyone who can't figure out the problems here then one shouldn't even be part of this discussion!).  I previously wrote about my offering to sell "Al's balls" on one of my groups, and the problems that it caused because somebody either didn't understand the context, the subject, or simply wanted to cause problems for that group with Yahoo!.  Religion and politics and even science groups are ripe for and rife with potential issues;  the Christian west, as an example, has concepts of free speech which include the assumed right to commentary and satire -- verbal, written, and visual -- while some religious groups, such as far right ultra orthodox Islam (my description) has real problems with those things when they are applied to Allah and Islam, resulting in the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran issued a fatwa ordering Muslims to kill Salman Rushdie for writing and publishing his book "The Satanic Verses" and twelve people being killed at the offices of Charlie Hebdo, a French satirical magazine that published controversial Muhammad cartoons after Muslim clerics declared them to be blasphemous.

Out of curiosity, Mark, if Ayatollah Ruhollah started a Groups.io group to discuss Muslim theology and blasphemy, who would be the arbiter of the code of conduct on their discussions if a conservative Christian complained?  Would that arbiter of conduct have any moral authority to censor or ban one of the highest clerics of Islam theology?  That person would be damned if he did, and damned if he didn't!

What if a Groups.io group is started to discuss "The Satanic Verses" and somebody complains that it's blasphemous to the Groups.io Conduct Authority?  What if Salman Rushdie himself starts the group, or joins in the conversation or debate?  Similar issues as above.

What if a group of religious or free speech academics or even just plain old people started a group to discuss the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the underlying issues, re-posted those cartoons on their Groups.io group, and a conservative Muslim complained?  Would that arbiter of conduct have any moral authority to censor or ban the free expression and discussion (including the posting of blasphemous or non-blasphemous cartoons, depending upon one's point-of-view) by religious or first amendment scholars -- or people merely interested in discussing / debating the issues?  Again, the arbiter of conduct would be damned if he did, and damned if he didn't!

Take the example above even one step further:  What if Groups.io doesn't censor or ban the Charlie Hebdo group, and a bunch of conservative Christians, freedom of speech advocates, and conservative Muslims all join the group and start an intense debate on the matter.  Somebody complains to Groups.io about a code of conduct violation -- who at Groups.io has the authority and depth of insight and knowledge to decide what's OK, what's not, who's in the right, who's not?  I know I wouldn't be as I'm neither a religious authority or a free speech scholar, and I'm guessing Groups.io has neither on staff.  Even if your staff had one, obviously there's some pretty deeply held religious beliefs being discussed here and the blasphemy issue will never be answered on a Groups.io group or by a Groups.io Code of COnduct arbiter or censor, though there is obvious value to there being a venue to have the debate.  What will you do:  ban ALL discussion of a religious nature, or to be safe ban ANY discussion that will generate controversy and code of conduct complaints?

The obvious answer is to leave the moderators in charge of their own groups' conduct, and let the members vote with their feet:  stay if it's OK, leave if it isn't.  Simple and elegant, with the added benefit of keeping extremists from issuing fatwas on staff members of Groups.io! <--tongue in cheek humor, in case that wasn't clear!

The whole Code of Conduct idea is a bad idea from the start if it's going to be imposed on the groups by Groups.io itself.  Let the group owners/moderators determine their groups' culture and mores and conduct, and let the members signal their approval or disapproval by subscribing or unsubscribing.

Mark, if you are truly concerned about Groups.io getting some sort of "bad" reputation like some other communications platforms, might I suggest that to address your concerns without embroiling yourself and your staff in code of conduct issues and problems that you simply retain the authority to require groups which leave you uncomfortable or concerned to switch over to being private groups instead of public groups?  Problem solved with public image issues for Groups.io;  anybody who joins a private group at that point has gone looking for whatever they found, especially if you allow a label such as "restricted" or "adult" or some other similar rating or label that notifies the potential subscriber that there may be some concerns for the faint hearted amongst us.

Best,

Mark Bielecki 


On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 03:08 pm, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Anita C. <pocketcollie@...> wrote:

Just out of curiosity, could you share the general nature of the complaints without giving away the specific list? 


Recently, complaints about bullying by group owners. But my thought about creating a CoC is more about the future than right now, and shaping the general reputation of Groups.io groups as 'safe' places on the Internet.

Here's what I want to avoid. Reddit has a horrible reputation, for hosting racist and sexist groups, for trolls, for a lot of nastiness. I don't want any part of that. While not a direct corollary to Groups.io, Twitter also has a problem with a lot of harassment. Many people don't feel safe using those services. In the real world, many science fiction conventions (amongst others) have realized that they need a code of conduct because bad behavior was happening (mainly sexual harassment, I believe).

It seems to me that there are some general things that would apply to all groups: no harassment, no racism, etc. By establishing a CoC, my hope would be that it would head off some of this behavior. I would hope that all Groups.io moderators would want Groups.io to have a good reputation. It would only help you.

Does this make what I'm trying to get at more clear? Thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark

 


locked Re: Code of conduct

 

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 06:22 am, vickie <vickie_00@...> wrote:
Think business when creating your code of conduct.

 Vickie,

I can't read Mark's mind. But while I agree with everything you say here, on another level I have come to believe that Mark is thinking about more than "business." I believe he's trying to create a community with integrity. Of course, doing that will also serve his business well.  But I think his "purpose" is higher than just making a buck. 

J


locked Re: Code of conduct

vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 01:08 pm, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

I believe Groups.io should have a Code of Conduct. Yes, we already have a Terms of Service, but a Code of Conduct covers somewhat different territory. Here are three examples of Codes that I like, to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:


Of course, not all parts of those are applicable to Groups.io groups. Let me stress, the goal isn't to limit discussion or topics or groups, but to provide guidelines to keep things civil and respectful.

When I've brought this up before, some have said that they didn't think something like this was needed. That's fantastic; you're running your groups well! But based on complaints I'm getting through support, however, I think Groups.io in general would benefit from something like this.

Is this a bad idea? Tell me why (respectfully, please :-) ). Otherwise, let me know which parts of those Codes you like or don't like and I'll start cobbling something together. If you have a favorite Code of Conduct from somewhere else, please share it as well.

I've tagged this with the #CoC hashtag, so you can ignore discussions about this if you wish.

Thanks,
Mark

 

Mark,

I had time to think hard on what you want. 

First you opened the pandoras box  asking for suggestions.. ha,ha,ha.. 

it's trailing off on what new features can be added to .io  groups.. lol

Think on this Mark, 

Code of conduct   should be about the kind of business a person  has

whether  that be a bakery store, retail store, Technical service ,  corporation, included  but not limited to employees  etc

You have a business you are trying to get off the ground.


Ask yourself  what  kind of quality  code of conduct YOU expect  from  the service you provide  to your customers in general.


Who are your customers: Members and moderators are your customers.

I say this because   you may have an entrepreneur member who may decide   on a premium or enterprise group.

As a moderator managing a group if  I find  a difficult member I have found myself  using the code of conduct yahoo provides for every moderator and member.

https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/terms/utos/index.htm

I also have a responsibility to adhere to your TOS when managing a group.. 


In truth. YOU have to decide on the kind of professional  code of conduct you want that will meet everyone using your website.

More important it should be "professional" in such a way that your   customers are impressed.

In turn I promise you, your website will be spoken about  in a good way and word of mouth is your best marketing tool.  

This is your baby Mark. "You" have to decide the code of conduct you want to meet the quality of business 

you are  working to get off the ground.

Think business when creating your code of conduct.


Vickie


 



 







locked Re: Various Questions

 

Sue,

I have seen reference to "aged out". I am trying to understand if there
is a time limit after which time a pending member will be removed.
There was some confusion on this, but there apparently is not a limit. My test group has an email address which has been in the Pending Approval list since Jan 22nd.

Is it possible to suppress the rejected message from being sent out? If
I blank the default message, does that suppress it or will a blank
message be sent?
If it is blank no message is sent.

Can the creation of polls feature be turned off or at least restricted
to only moderators?
No.

The forgotten email link is worded in a somewhat confusing manner. The
normal practice on other sites when one clicks a forgotten password link
is to be taken to a page where the password can be reset. Here, although
one is presented with that option, it is from within the Group itself;
that is, one is automatically logged into the site.
The email sent to you contains a link that logs you into the site, and opens the profile edit page where you can set a new password. You remain logged into the site after you save your new password and may either log out or continue using the site.

I did see some comments suggesting that passwords were… I think passe
was the word used. I can't say that I've heard anything to that effect
but I would be interesting in hearing from those who agree with that
idea, how sites/accounts are to be protected if passwords are done away
with.
With Groups.io you have the four options. You can set and use a password, together with your email address, to log in. Or you can ask to have a log in email sent to you - that message will contain a link that brings you to Groups.io and logs you in. Or you can log in using your Facebook account, or you can use your Gmail account.

The log in by email method is similar to using "Forgot Password" to log in, but it takes you to your home page instead of your profile, and doesn't require that you ever set a password.

Your login remains active for thirty days, unless you log out or delete your browser cookies earlier than that.

I have selected the option to strip attachments as I don't want any
posted within messages at my group. However I notice that an ordinary
member can still see the selection box to choose the size of the
attachments they receive.

Now obviously they won't receive any regardless of which setting they
select but if the owners/moderators have made the decision that
attachments will not be allowed, wouldn't it be simpler if members
didn't see that option?
That's a reasonable suggestion. The only downside I can see is that if the group's policy is later changed, the members won't have had the opportunity to set a reasonable limit in advance.

When a new member receives the "confirm your account" email, I think
it would be better to only have the "confirm account" link rather
than that and the option of replying to the message. Click a clear
hyperlink is simple and easy whereas more options can just serve to
confuse people.
I disagree. The advantage of the email response is that it is a simple reply and you're done. You don't have to visit the web site or do anything else.

Too, there are circumstances, especially on devices where you have limited or metered internet access, where you may want to start your subscription without having to open a browser and use the web pages.

Now I've been around the process myself when creating an ordinary member
account, I understand better all the messages about the confusion in the
process. I can't help thinking that if I and my co-owner were confused,
and neither of us are internet novices, then our members would
definitely be confused. I would much prefer the simpler and more common
set-up of simply having to provide an email address and a password in
order to join a group.
Most of those messages were confusion about the prior pages and wording. I'm curious at what point you found yourself confused with the current pages.

As I mentioned above, you can log in with your email address and a password if you want to.


-- Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Duplicate messages bug?

 

Janice,

This morning's message was posted by a very experienced
internet/computer user so I'm pretty sure it is not a user error on his
part.
One clue to what's happening is in the Message-ID field in the header. Look in the View Original of the two copies in your group, and compare that field.

If they are different then the member's email system generated those two messages separately and delivered both to Groups.io.

If they are the same that doesn't tell you where the original message got duplicated. Odds are that it happened at the hand-off between the member's email system and Groups.io. If the member's system thought that the transaction failed the first time it would try again. Groups.io may have accepted the message on both attempts. But there are other possibilities, and it would take someone with access to the server logs (such as Mark) to unravel what happened.

-- Shal


locked Re: I always want copies of my own messages

 

Brenda,

No matter what, I always want copies of my own messages.
I have the box checked, is that enough?
Yes.

I'm sure that even if Mark changes the control, or adds a control, to include an option to not receive your own messages, he'll do it in a way that preserves your existing setting.

-- Shal


locked Re: Code of conduct

Ro
 

That is completely true.  I am in many dog groups, and you cant hardly talk about breeding because Yahoo apparently only knows one meaning and use for the term "bitch".


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 04:46:57 +0000
From: vickie_00@...
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Code of conduct #CoC

 
Brenda>>>>Certain words, like the N word or other actual curse words could be flagged by an automated system, but if they appeared to fit in the context of a group, such as bitch in a dog group, it wouldn't be treated as a flagged word.

I think Yahoo tried  to filter words  once and  members were complaining    about words that should not   have been flagged
 words that are not bad words but seem rude.

for example  
words that are  ok to use but  seem bad
cock-bell  is a small hand bell
 
 Butt shaft is a term my cousin has used. it's a term in archery. A target arrow  without a barb. 


I am so late for bed.. ugh.. I am going to regret this


 Good night everyone

Vickie

 









From: Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 11:10 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: Code of conduct #CoC

RS wrote:>> From a more practical perspective though, how does one enforce the CoC, and
who decides what is what?  Seems like you'd need a reporting system and a dispute resolution system.  YouTube has perpetual fun with that idea, so I am not sure what the best approach is.  What are you in a position to offer and how much of it can you automate to ease the workload?<<

I think it would fall a lot on the moderators to report. If for example, someone couldn't control the situation in their group, no matter what they tried to do, the person could be reported to Mark or support, and handled in that manner.

I also think the members should be able to report to Mark or support, as well. If one member is being harassed and the moderator in the group isn't helping, that's when it would go up a level to groups.io management.

I would also think a system where three violations/mistakes, or so, would give them a chance to learn the rules, and then if they persist, they might need to be put on moderation or banned.

Certain words, like the N word or other actual curse words could be flagged by an automated system, but if they appeared to fit in the context of a group, such as bitch in a dog group, it wouldn't be treated as a flagged word.

Just some ideas to throw out there.

Brenda









locked Re: Code of conduct

vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

 
Brenda>>>>Certain words, like the N word or other actual curse words could be flagged by an automated system, but if they appeared to fit in the context of a group, such as bitch in a dog group, it wouldn't be treated as a flagged word.

I think Yahoo tried  to filter words  once and  members were complaining    about words that should not   have been flagged
 words that are not bad words but seem rude.

for example  
words that are  ok to use but  seem bad
cock-bell  is a small hand bell
 
 Butt shaft is a term my cousin has used. it's a term in archery. A target arrow  without a barb. 


I am so late for bed.. ugh.. I am going to regret this


 Good night everyone

Vickie

 









From: Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 11:10 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: Code of conduct #CoC

RS wrote:>> From a more practical perspective though, how does one enforce the CoC, and
who decides what is what?  Seems like you'd need a reporting system and a dispute resolution system.  YouTube has perpetual fun with that idea, so I am not sure what the best approach is.  What are you in a position to offer and how much of it can you automate to ease the workload?<<

I think it would fall a lot on the moderators to report. If for example, someone couldn't control the situation in their group, no matter what they tried to do, the person could be reported to Mark or support, and handled in that manner.

I also think the members should be able to report to Mark or support, as well. If one member is being harassed and the moderator in the group isn't helping, that's when it would go up a level to groups.io management.

I would also think a system where three violations/mistakes, or so, would give them a chance to learn the rules, and then if they persist, they might need to be put on moderation or banned.

Certain words, like the N word or other actual curse words could be flagged by an automated system, but if they appeared to fit in the context of a group, such as bitch in a dog group, it wouldn't be treated as a flagged word.

Just some ideas to throw out there.

Brenda









locked Re: Code of conduct

Nightowl >8#
 

RS wrote:>> From a more practical perspective though, how does one enforce the CoC, and
who decides what is what?  Seems like you'd need a reporting system and a dispute resolution system.  YouTube has perpetual fun with that idea, so I am not sure what the best approach is.  What are you in a position to offer and how much of it can you automate to ease the workload?<<

I think it would fall a lot on the moderators to report. If for example, someone couldn't control the situation in their group, no matter what they tried to do, the person could be reported to Mark or support, and handled in that manner.

I also think the members should be able to report to Mark or support, as well. If one member is being harassed and the moderator in the group isn't helping, that's when it would go up a level to groups.io management.

I would also think a system where three violations/mistakes, or so, would give them a chance to learn the rules, and then if they persist, they might need to be put on moderation or banned.

Certain words, like the N word or other actual curse words could be flagged by an automated system, but if they appeared to fit in the context of a group, such as bitch in a dog group, it wouldn't be treated as a flagged word.

Just some ideas to throw out there.

Brenda


locked Re: Code of conduct

 

'The Offensive Internet' is a great book by a bunch of law professors who argue that First Amendment law has not kept up with the state of technology. Writing slander on a bathroom wall is a far cry from posting it online where it can be read by thousands or millions. Etc. Some original thinking on phenomena most of us have at least witnessed online and been unable  to do anything about. 
I am in favor of having a model set of guidelines as Mark suggests. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 11, 2016, at 7:58 PM, vickie via Groups.io <vickie_00@...> wrote:

Brenda>>>You'd be surprised. Sometimes the moderator is the person who is the hater. Sometimes they are in league with the hater. Having had a LOT of experience with this on Yahoo, with very specific people who created groups just to attack me, I think something in place to prevent it would be nice. Yahoo did not do much, most of the time. They just let them be there.

I am sorry Brenda people treated you this way.. Your a good person..  I can't see anyone hating your.  
 I have met such haters  in Y`groups and have also experienced gossiping Mod  haters.
They band together to   talk off list and on the list against someone
Yahoo won't do anything about that. Let me tell you why.
As long as the haters are not banding together to plan an attack towards that person with the intent to hurt that member
 then they won't do anything.
No more than the police will do anything unless there is an actual plan  to  attack that  member in person.
If you feel you are in danger Yahoo will tell you to call the police.  Once there is proof of such an act to hurt someone then
 I am certain yahoo would shut the group down.
Otherwise Yahoo  sees it as a domestic  problem and they do not get involved with customers  not getting along.

 All my life I have made it a point to not associate with such people. First of all it brings me down.
I move on..  I prefer to associate myself with  decent people with  healthy personalities.
Brenda what is important is you do not allow them to upset you, if you do then  they win.. 
I would never give them that satisfaction.. 
Delete works for me and blocking  hater emails works wonders.. 

Warm Hugs

Vickie

 










From: Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:19 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: Code of conduct #CoC

Vickie wrote:>>there are  many John f  names..  as in John middle name frank.. Names have no copy right ownership.  Neither do towns or counties.<<

True, but he is talking about a very specific instance. One where it is CLEAR that he is the topic of the hate-group, which is what we all called them. That would be different.

Vickie wrote:>>However if a group owner intentionally created a group to  bully you, or insult you, then  you  have every right to submit your complaint to support group .io.
However I don't ever see that happening in any group. No moderator would ever allow that.<<

You'd be surprised. Sometimes the moderator is the person who is the hater. Sometimes they are in league with the hater. Having had a LOT of experience with this on Yahoo, with very specific people who created groups just to attack me, I think something in place to prevent it would be nice. Yahoo did not do much, most of the time. They just let them be there.

Brenda







locked Re: Code of conduct

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark Fletcher wrote:>>Recently, complaints about bullying by group owners. But my thought about creating a CoC is more about the future than right now, and shaping the general reputation of Groups.io groups as 'safe' places on the Internet. > Here's what I want to avoid. Reddit has a horrible reputation, for hosting racist and sexist groups, for trolls, for a lot of nastiness. I don't want any part of that.<<

Makes perfect sense to me. I agree, Not allowing Racism, sexist, or any other sort of discriminatory nature topics is the way to go.

I am still a little confused between TOS and COC. But for example, if I told Mark that X person had created Xgroup to harrass me and other members and was in fact doing it both in group and off group, I would want Mark to be able to shut it down. What does that one fall under?

Mark wrote:>>Many people don't feel safe using those services.<<

Exactly, and why I won't use Facebook. I use Twitter, but with extreme privacy rules set up. Some people didn't feel safe on Yahoo either. And with the anti-bullying issue becoming more and more enforceable on electronic media, I think you're smart to be considering how your group site may conform to that.

Mark wrote:>>It seems to me that there are some general things that would apply to all
groups: no harassment, no racism, etc. By establishing a CoC, my hope would be that it would head off some of this behavior. I would hope that all Groups.io moderators would want Groups.io to have a good reputation. It would only help you.<<

I certainly get it. I know you already have said no porn or adult content groups, I think you can add in no hate groups, or etc.

My biggest question is a tricky one though. Does harassment border on illegal now? I think it's a wide scope that depends on a number of factors.

Mark wrote:>>Does this make what I'm trying to get at more clear? Thoughts appreciated.

Yes, it does for me, anyway. And I agree, everyone on here should WANT groups.io to have a good reputation, and to be perceived as a safe place to be.

I have a couple ideas though, in wording that might help in context:

For example, no racist behavior, would be the rule.
But a group discussing Racism as a topic would be allowed. If the group was doing it civilly and productively.

Another example, no cussing or adult language preferred.
But bitch is a female dog, and in that group topic case would be allowed. Ass, is a Donkey, and in that group topic case would also be allowed.

But assh...e would not be applied anywhere....unless it was a medical site, and I believe the correct word is spelled with an a, but it a lot shorter. ;)

Does that help clarify?

Brenda


Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Code of conduct

vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

Brenda>>>You'd be surprised. Sometimes the moderator is the person who is the hater. Sometimes they are in league with the hater. Having had a LOT of experience with this on Yahoo, with very specific people who created groups just to attack me, I think something in place to prevent it would be nice. Yahoo did not do much, most of the time. They just let them be there.

I am sorry Brenda people treated you this way.. Your a good person..  I can't see anyone hating your.  
 I have met such haters  in Y`groups and have also experienced gossiping Mod  haters.
They band together to   talk off list and on the list against someone
Yahoo won't do anything about that. Let me tell you why.
As long as the haters are not banding together to plan an attack towards that person with the intent to hurt that member
 then they won't do anything.
No more than the police will do anything unless there is an actual plan  to  attack that  member in person.
If you feel you are in danger Yahoo will tell you to call the police.  Once there is proof of such an act to hurt someone then
 I am certain yahoo would shut the group down.
Otherwise Yahoo  sees it as a domestic  problem and they do not get involved with customers  not getting along.

 All my life I have made it a point to not associate with such people. First of all it brings me down.
I move on..  I prefer to associate myself with  decent people with  healthy personalities.
Brenda what is important is you do not allow them to upset you, if you do then  they win.. 
I would never give them that satisfaction.. 
Delete works for me and blocking  hater emails works wonders.. 

Warm Hugs

Vickie

 










From: Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:19 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: Code of conduct #CoC

Vickie wrote:>>there are  many John f  names..  as in John middle name frank.. Names have no copy right ownership.  Neither do towns or counties.<<

True, but he is talking about a very specific instance. One where it is CLEAR that he is the topic of the hate-group, which is what we all called them. That would be different.

Vickie wrote:>>However if a group owner intentionally created a group to  bully you, or insult you, then  you  have every right to submit your complaint to support group .io.
However I don't ever see that happening in any group. No moderator would ever allow that.<<

You'd be surprised. Sometimes the moderator is the person who is the hater. Sometimes they are in league with the hater. Having had a LOT of experience with this on Yahoo, with very specific people who created groups just to attack me, I think something in place to prevent it would be nice. Yahoo did not do much, most of the time. They just let them be there.

Brenda







locked Re: Code of conduct

Nightowl >8#
 

Vickie wrote:>>there are many John f names.. as in John middle name frank.. Names have no copy right ownership. Neither do towns or counties.<<

True, but he is talking about a very specific instance. One where it is CLEAR that he is the topic of the hate-group, which is what we all called them. That would be different.

Vickie wrote:>>However if a group owner intentionally created a group to bully you, or insult you, then you have every right to submit your complaint to support group .io.
However I don't ever see that happening in any group. No moderator would ever allow that.<<

You'd be surprised. Sometimes the moderator is the person who is the hater. Sometimes they are in league with the hater. Having had a LOT of experience with this on Yahoo, with very specific people who created groups just to attack me, I think something in place to prevent it would be nice. Yahoo did not do much, most of the time. They just let them be there.

Brenda


locked Re: Code of conduct

Nightowl >8#
 

D R Stinson <dano@mt.net> wrote:>>The Code of Conduct needs to be something that is not negotiable by any group owner or moderator. They are the rules that MUST be adhered to by *all* users of groups.io. The intent is to make sure that certain, shall we say "inalienable rights", are respected by everyone who uses groups.io for any reason.<<

I guess I'm confused. I thought that would apply more to Terms of Service.

Can someone explain the difference between Terms of Service and Code of Conduct?

Thanks,

Brenda


locked Re: Code of conduct

Nightowl >8#
 

RS wrote:>>SUGGESTION: Create a "Code of Conduct" message page for all groups, always visible can't be deactivated. It would be linked on the sidebar like any other feature. It would be auto populated with the default text as decided on by Groups.io management, so all groups are encouraged to begin with this standard. However, since one size never fits all, add the following functions.<<

I like Tyger's idea. A default COC and editable & enforceable by moderators as needed.

Great plan!

Brenda


locked Re: Various Questions

Duane
 

No, there really wasn't a decision made on Polls, but I believe that's the latest discussion for and against.

There was a problem using the download procedure with the button in Firefox (which I use.) In his efforts to make things work the same for everyone, Mark decided the thing to do would be basically return the photo section to nearly the way it originally was. Maybe he could add a tip/note near the button or at the top of the "Download" window advising folks what they need to do - right click, save image as - or whatever terms are used for the various browsers. If they all just worked the same for "simple" functions like this, it would make his job much easier.

Probably best to just say something like "a simple text file, one address per line in either "email@example.com" or "Name <email@example.com>" format.

I know that users are going to cover the full range of comfort/knowledge about computers, so anything we can do to help make it more direct and easier to understand, with as few implied actions as possible, should be going in the right direction.

Duane


locked Re: Code of conduct

 

My worry about having an official code of conduct that applies to every group is that there will be some who try to stretch it too far.

For example, let's say I post that I had a delicious ham sandwich for lunch today. Then a vegetarian claims I'm being offensive. So does someone whose religion dictates that pork shall not be eaten.

Now, if I had posted in a group for vegetarians or for that religion, then it's clear that I'm trolling, and the group moderators should deal with that. What happens when someone tries to extend their views to other groups?

There's also a case where friends engage in trash talking just for fun. They know their words shouldn't be taken at face value, but someone else not so familiar with the situation might think they're fighting.

It's a little like trying to precisely define obscenity, where the best definition seems to be, "I know it when I see it!"

There's no right not to be offended. I don't want Groups.io to devolve into offensive stupidity, but I don't want it to be the pinnacle of political correctness, either.

JohnF


locked Re: Group post hashtag display

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark wrote:>> No easy way. The way to do so is to view the thread with the number hashtag, and then click the 'Edit Thread' button at the top right. That will bring up a screen with the thread's subject line. All you have to do is click the update button and that will strip the hashtag, but leave the subject intact. Hope this helps.<<

Definitely. I did that in Hollow Tree, and all the numeric hashtags are gone. I had a little problem with one of them, because the entire title was #1000 but John got me through it and we corrected it too.

Still hoping for a way to view thread from the post you are on, example, we were on post #1181 but trying to view it in thread view kicked us to the end again. But we figured it out.

Brenda


locked Re: Code of conduct

Nightowl >8#
 

Having a Code of Conduct is a good idea.

Basic rules I used to have in some groups:

1. You may discuss more sensitive topics, such as politics and religion, as long as you try to be respectful of one another and of me.

2. You may not attack the owner, one another or Flame any one for their opinion.

3. You may not create a second account and pretend to be someone else for the purpose of harassment.

4. You may not to cuss in here much or use strong adult language, because I'm trying to keep the group available to the public.

5. No illegal selling or buying (such as pirated software)

6. No pornographic info or images.

I believe those were the basics, and I still uphold them in all my groups, public or private.

There also would be the option for having extra points for a specific group, for example, I don't allow anyone to attack Yahoo executives or staff members in MM.

Brenda