Date   

locked Re: Tracking features/bugs

 

Mark,

 I've been looking around for a way to better organize what features and
 bugs I'm working on/tracking. Up till now, I've been using a todo list,
 which isn't great, for many reasons.

 I'm experimenting with Trello.

I know Ticket management is not quite the same thing, but it overlaps. Is it too heavyweight a solution? Or are you not ready for User-supplied feedback in that form?

Hence what about zendesk's ticket tracker (since you're already using them)?

Same question for UserVoice, which I only ask about because I'm reasonably happy with its user experience. The ability of users to post items, comment on items, and vote on items seems like it could give you a "sense of the community" without performing explicit polls or on-list discussion.

I don't know either product from the developer side of the fence, so those are naive questions.

At work we like Fossil's ticket-tracker. That's really more geared for the development team's use, but it does provide a web UI that one can host and open to the public; with access controls for who can read or modify. Probably more fussy to set up than you want, unless you happen to already like and use Fossil as a DRCS.

 Here's the Groups.io Beta board:

  https://trello.com/b/qu3WgzVq/beta

Nice!

I guess I'll learn some more about it. I do appreciate being able to see your "to-do" list, and I think that can help keep us up to date without repetitive traffic in the beta list. Will you be the only "Member" of that board, or is this a system that could also be used as a Feedback type of forum?

The "elephant in the corner" then is: why not the beta group's wiki page for this purpose? I see you started down that path, but I imagine that a tool like Trello, already honed for this purpose, proved to be more facile.

-- Shal


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Judy F.
 

Shal, I like that idea. One vote from me.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 3:38 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Mark,

Hmm, ok. So should I just get rid of the 'This message has been deleted'
and any message deletion action (from the member or from the
moderator) results in the message completely disappearing?
On the other hand, what about "undelete"? Is that a feature anyone wants? To
have the feature there must be a way to find a placeholder for the message.

I ask because sometimes moderators would ask about undeleting messages
mistakenly (or maliciously) deleted by another moderator. The typical
scenario is a novice moderator who mistakes the Messages list for a kind of
personal inbox and deletes messages as he/she reads them.

Groups.io is already in better condition than Yahoo Groups in that regard,
having labeled the message archives "Archives". That helps imply that it is
a group resource not a personal one, making the mistake less likely.

If there were to be an undelete capability, I would propose that when a
member deletes their own message then either only that member can undelete
it or no one can - not any moderator or owner in either case. That is
necessary, I think, to preserve the promise that the member has the right to
remove their content. Conversely if a moderator deletes a message only a
moderator (not the posting member) can undelete it. This is necessary to
preserve the right of the group management to control the content of the
group.

On the other, other hand, if undelete is only available to moderators (when
reversing another moderator's deletion) then the Activity log entry for the
deletion event would be an appropriate place for an "Undo" button.

-- Shal


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Mark,

Hmm, ok. So should I just get rid of the 'This message has been deleted'
and any message deletion action (from the member or from the moderator)
results in the message completely disappearing?
On the other hand, what about "undelete"? Is that a feature anyone wants? To have the feature there must be a way to find a placeholder for the message.

I ask because sometimes moderators would ask about undeleting messages mistakenly (or maliciously) deleted by another moderator. The typical scenario is a novice moderator who mistakes the Messages list for a kind of personal inbox and deletes messages as he/she reads them.

Groups.io is already in better condition than Yahoo Groups in that regard, having labeled the message archives "Archives". That helps imply that it is a group resource not a personal one, making the mistake less likely.

If there were to be an undelete capability, I would propose that when a member deletes their own message then either only that member can undelete it or no one can - not any moderator or owner in either case. That is necessary, I think, to preserve the promise that the member has the right to remove their content. Conversely if a moderator deletes a message only a moderator (not the posting member) can undelete it. This is necessary to preserve the right of the group management to control the content of the group.

On the other, other hand, if undelete is only available to moderators (when reversing another moderator's deletion) then the Activity log entry for the deletion event would be an appropriate place for an "Undo" button.

-- Shal


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Brenda,

If I want the group to be moderated (i.e. members can join, but are
moderated until they make their first post, how do I set it up? I think
I've set ours up wrong.
In the Settings page check the "New Users Moderated" box.

Just as in Yahoo Groups, you have to take the Moderated override off the member manually.

-- Shal


locked deletions

ro-esp
 

Just a thought: would it help to have different messages.like "this message was deleted by author" and "message deleted by moderator"?

Are messages numbered? I mean, if there clearly are no messages between 80762 and 80765 in the archive, that would indicate that the messages in between were deleted.


btw I support the year-mm-dd format over the USA custom


groetjes, Ronaldo


locked Re: A couple of questions

Frances
 

Hi Brenda

I have had the drag photo message too - when I tried to edit using select, drag. 

I especially saw it in the wiki portion. I tested and the same happens when you try to drag to edit in messages on the website.

Frances

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2015, at 9:04 PM, Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...> wrote:

Mark,


Can I set a default for the message view I want? Both type and ordering?

Also, I tried to reply to a message from Matthew in my group, but I keep getting a corner message that says drag photo here. I don't want to drag a photo, and it won't let me reply. What do I do?


Brenda


locked A couple of questions

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark,


Can I set a default for the message view I want? Both type and ordering?

Also, I tried to reply to a message from Matthew in my group, but I keep getting a corner message that says drag photo here. I don't want to drag a photo, and it won't let me reply. What do I do?


Brenda


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark,

Not sure if I'm replying correctly, but I have a question:


If I want the group to be moderated (i.e. members can join, but are moderated until they make their first post, how do I set it up? I think I've set ours up wrong.


Brenda

Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Feathered Leader is here :)

Nightowl >8#
 

Okay Mark,


I've started putting out the word. We can't thank you enough for creating this. More things break in Yahoo groups daily.


Yes, I would like to go to message 1, put it in expanded view and read through to 500+ is that possible?


Brenda

Owl


locked Re: Feathered Leader is here :)

 

Hi Brenda,

You can jump to an individual message # from the expanded view. But it just displays the single message.. I'm guessing you would want it to start the expanded view from the message number you input?

As for spreading the word, please do! 

Thanks,
Mark

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...> wrote:

Wow, I just got the message view to flip dates where I could read it up to down.


One question, is it possible to put message #'s in expanded view? If not, I'll cope.


Brenda



locked Re: Feathered Leader is here :)

Nightowl >8#
 

Wow, I just got the message view to flip dates where I could read it up to down.


One question, is it possible to put message #'s in expanded view? If not, I'll cope.


Brenda


locked Feathered Leader is here :)

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark,

Is it okay if I post about this in Mods and Members yet? If not, can I at least invite several more tech savvy people to join the test group Tyger just made? I'm not good enough in all of this to assess whether this group format works for the rest of us, but it meets all of my basic needs so far.

One question,  though. I like to read all of my messages in chronological order by number, and I'm thrilled you have message numbers, those are my two basic needs. But can I somehow flip it so I can read from 1-down instead of reading upwards? And I tried to go to message # 1 and just read all 500 but I can't seem to get that to work.

Thanks!

Brenda
Nightowl >8#





locked Empty messages

 

I accidentally sent an empty message to my group. Perhaps there should be a warning in the interface if you try to do this?


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Mark,

Should I allow moderators to completely nuke a message so that it's like
it never happened?
In Yahoo Groups a deleted message leaves behind a gap in the message number sequence. The permalink becomes a page that says "The item you are looking for is not available" but otherwise has the normal chrome of the group's Conversations section.

I think that's appropriate. Can't erase the gap without messing up all subsequent permalinks, and it doesn't seem like a good idea to have it resolve to a generic 404 error. But it should disappear from the messages lists, without a way to navigate to it other than through the permalink.

I've read occasional complaints that the conversation search would still turn up a match on the deleted message and display an excerpt of its content in the search results list. That upsets people quite a bit.

-- Shal


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Judy F.
 

I agree with your proposal of doing away with the message period, no ‘this message has been deleted’.  It just takes up space and if we delete it, to me, that means it’s gone. 

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 6:18 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Hmm, ok. So should I just get rid of the 'This message has been deleted' and any message deletion action (from the member or from the moderator) results in the message completely disappearing?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:

Hi Mark,  Neat freaks (moi) would prefer for the deleted message to be gone.  No need for: 'This message has been deleted.'  Thanks, Linda

 

 

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 5:54 PM

Subject: Re: [beta] Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Hi All,

 

I had hoped to have the first version of this completed by today, but I ended up having to make a lot of changes to the code and it's not quite ready yet. For this version:

 

- Members can edit their messages, and if they are moderated (or the group is moderated), their changes will have to be approved by the moderator.

- Members can delete their messages without approval needed. Deleted messages are replaced with 'This message has been deleted'. 

- Moderators with the correct privileges can do all of this as well.

- Edits to messages are kept and are viewable/diffable, just like wiki pages.

 

One question for you all. Right now there is no way to make a message completely disappear. If a message is deleted, it's replaced with 'This message has been deleted.'. Should I allow moderators to completely nuke a message so that it's like it never happened?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

 


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Judy F.
 

Thanks Mark for all you are doing on this.

 

Regarding deleting messages, I think owners/moderators should be able to delete messages.  In the buying/selling group that I work with, the ads are kept for several years and then need to be deleted. 

 

Thanks,

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 5:55 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Hi All,

 

I had hoped to have the first version of this completed by today, but I ended up having to make a lot of changes to the code and it's not quite ready yet. For this version:

 

- Members can edit their messages, and if they are moderated (or the group is moderated), their changes will have to be approved by the moderator.

- Members can delete their messages without approval needed. Deleted messages are replaced with 'This message has been deleted'. 

- Moderators with the correct privileges can do all of this as well.

- Edits to messages are kept and are viewable/diffable, just like wiki pages.

 

One question for you all. Right now there is no way to make a message completely disappear. If a message is deleted, it's replaced with 'This message has been deleted.'. Should I allow moderators to completely nuke a message so that it's like it never happened?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 


locked Tracking features/bugs

 

All,

I've been looking around for a way to better organize what features and bugs I'm working on/tracking. Up till now, I've been using a todo list, which isn't great, for many reasons.

I'm experimenting with Trello. Trello lets you create boards, on those boards are lists of items. Each item can be added to over time. It's one of those things that makes more sense if you see it. Anyways, one of the features is that I can make the board public, so everyone here can see what's on the to-do and bug list. Here's the Groups.io Beta board:


I have just started populating it (my todo list is a couple pages long). Anyways, let me know if you think this is useful. There may be ways to do a Trello integration with Groups.io. (For the record, I have no association with Trello, I just found out about them).

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Frances
 

Hi

And I, on the other hand, am not worried about the message. This would probably not happen very often. 

If a message is deleted, are the members notified? 
A scenario: a message is deleted, and nothing goes to the group members, no message is put in the website showing a message was deleted. Now someone wants to follow up on that message from so-and-so, so they go to the website to find it. If there was a message about deletion, their search would be over. Having a bit of a trail is not such a bad thing!

Frances


On Jan 9 15, at 6:06 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:

Hi Mark,  Neat freaks (moi) would prefer for the deleted message to be gone.  No need for: 'This message has been deleted.'  Thanks, Linda
 

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Hi All,

I had hoped to have the first version of this completed by today, but I ended up having to make a lot of changes to the code and it's not quite ready yet. For this version:

- Members can edit their messages, and if they are moderated (or the group is moderated), their changes will have to be approved by the moderator.
- Members can delete their messages without approval needed. Deleted messages are replaced with 'This message has been deleted'. 
- Moderators with the correct privileges can do all of this as well.
- Edits to messages are kept and are viewable/diffable, just like wiki pages.

One question for you all. Right now there is no way to make a message completely disappear. If a message is deleted, it's replaced with 'This message has been deleted.'. Should I allow moderators to completely nuke a message so that it's like it never happened?

Thanks,
Mark



locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

 

Hmm, ok. So should I just get rid of the 'This message has been deleted' and any message deletion action (from the member or from the moderator) results in the message completely disappearing?

Thanks,
Mark

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,  Neat freaks (moi) would prefer for the deleted message to be gone.  No need for: 'This message has been deleted.'  Thanks, Linda
 

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Hi All,

I had hoped to have the first version of this completed by today, but I ended up having to make a lot of changes to the code and it's not quite ready yet. For this version:

- Members can edit their messages, and if they are moderated (or the group is moderated), their changes will have to be approved by the moderator.
- Members can delete their messages without approval needed. Deleted messages are replaced with 'This message has been deleted'. 
- Moderators with the correct privileges can do all of this as well.
- Edits to messages are kept and are viewable/diffable, just like wiki pages.

One question for you all. Right now there is no way to make a message completely disappear. If a message is deleted, it's replaced with 'This message has been deleted.'. Should I allow moderators to completely nuke a message so that it's like it never happened?

Thanks,
Mark



locked Re: Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Linda
 

Hi Mark,  Neat freaks (moi) would prefer for the deleted message to be gone.  No need for: 'This message has been deleted.'  Thanks, Linda
 

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Edits, deletions, moderation, oh my!

Hi All,

I had hoped to have the first version of this completed by today, but I ended up having to make a lot of changes to the code and it's not quite ready yet. For this version:

- Members can edit their messages, and if they are moderated (or the group is moderated), their changes will have to be approved by the moderator.
- Members can delete their messages without approval needed. Deleted messages are replaced with 'This message has been deleted'. 
- Moderators with the correct privileges can do all of this as well.
- Edits to messages are kept and are viewable/diffable, just like wiki pages.

One question for you all. Right now there is no way to make a message completely disappear. If a message is deleted, it's replaced with 'This message has been deleted.'. Should I allow moderators to completely nuke a message so that it's like it never happened?

Thanks,
Mark