Date   

locked Re: "P" next to member name

Duane
 
Edited

J,

You're misunderstanding the use of the available functions.

(blank) follows the group setting, moderated or unmoderated
NuM is for moderating new members. Setting/enabling the Unmoderate After x Posts is optional.
M means a person is always Moderated, regardless of the group setting.
P means a person is never moderated, regardless of the group setting.
NP means a person is never allowed to post.

If your group isn't moderated except for new users, as it sounds, then I'd use the Default Group Policy for that person. No marking and they can always post unless you put the entire group on moderated status, such as when a flame war breaks out or another extreme situation. If you leave them at P, they can post even if the group is changed to moderated. I would never set anyone to P except possibly myself or a trusted moderator.

Duane


locked Re: Modifying size of Wiki tables

Ella Yu <ellaxyu@...>
 

This could be difficult to implement, as tables are too complicated to be editble without HTML.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Everett Kaser" <everett@kaser.com
To: beta@groups.io
Date sent: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 07:46:02 -0800
Subject: [beta] Modifying size of Wiki tables #wiki #tables

I searched 'beta' for posts about this, but didn't find anything.

As far as I can see, once you add a table to a Wiki, the only way to modify the size of the table (rows or columns) is to edit the HTML code. 혻Is that true?

It would be REALLY nice (for HTML-ignorant members) to be able add/delete rows/columns of a table without resorting to the code view, which is all too easy to mess up.

Any chance?

Everett Kaser


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

Shal,

I'm going to be quick about this.

I'm pretty sure the reason to allow an override of the NuM status is to allow a member to start posting right away and simply cut the initial moderation period. I'm pretty sure adding a "P" in case the group's policies change was not part of the intent. 

I want to say once again that I think this situation arises because instead of the absence of "M"  (or in this case, the absence of "NuM"), you're using another symbol ("P") to essentially mean the same thing. As time goes on, there is no difference (or, I'm fairly sure, no *intended* difference) between the user and any other user in the group.

Now I've said my piece. Or my peace? Or … my "P":-)  … and I am officially exiting this debate.

J



locked Modifying size of Wiki tables

 

I searched 'beta' for posts about this, but didn't find anything.

As far as I can see, once you add a table to a Wiki, the only way to modify the size of the table (rows or columns) is to edit the HTML code.  Is that true?

It would be REALLY nice (for HTML-ignorant members) to be able add/delete rows/columns of a table without resorting to the code view, which is all too easy to mess up.

Any chance?

Everett Kaser



locked Re: email #suggestion

Ella Yu <ellaxyu@...>
 

That's strange, and it's a bug that needs fixing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Green Fizzpops" <greenfizzpops@gmail.com
To: beta@groups.io
Date sent: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:17:39 -0800
Subject: [beta] #hashgtags email #suggestion

I set my test group to require hashtags.

In another, not-logged in, browser,I sent an email without a hashtag in the subject to my test group using my non-moderator test email address.

Two things:

(1)Since my test email address had not yet registered a password, clicking on the link I was sent to edit the subject, resulted in being redirected to the Please Sign In page. This is correct. I clicked on "Forgot password or don't have password". This went as expected. However, after I had registered혻 I was not redirected back to the page for editing the subject and I could not find that page from the menu selections available to me. My suggestion is to, if at all possible, redirect back to the editing subject page if the users had to register before editing. Either that, or make navigating back to that page easy and obvious.

(2) I eventually went back to the email and clicked on the link in it again. When I started typing in a hashtag I realised that I didn't actually know which hashtags were available. and there is no dropdown on that page showing me what existing ones are. Is there some combination of group settings that does make a hashtag dropdown or something similar visible? If not, my suggestion is to provide some mechanism on that page for the user to see available hashtags.

Regards

Green


locked Re: Suggestion group name and request to enhance pending message screen

Jennifer Christian
 

You might rename the group as devel@groups.io. That would send a clearer signal as to the nature of the group.

Also, it sure would be nice if it were easier to communicate with the author of a message waiting to be approved. Someone just sent in a message that was created using voice recognition technology -- so parts of it were inscrutable. It took too many steps and was too hard (in my opinion) to find his email address and write him an email asking him to decode what he wrote. I did that -- and will hold back the message until he responds or so much time passes that I give up.

What I would like: In the pending message view, it would be very convenient to (a) SEE the author's email address AND (b) click a button that says "email to member". Or maybe when we click the link to "see the member", the "send email to member" option would be right there. In fact, that might be a solution to more than one problem.

Jennifer Christian
ACOEM Work Fitness & Disability Section - 500 members

Work Fitness & Disability Roundtable - 1000 members


locked Re: Database beta

Duane
 

Having the drop-down arrow on the left would definitely be preferred for me, even though the list drops down when the box is clicked. It's not as obvious if I tab to the next field when filling them in. On a large screen, it gets lost on the right by itself when I'm concentrating on the left where the boxes are.

I also agree with having a field containing the user name of the person that created the row, automatically added. To the right of the row created would probably be fine. I would NOT want it changed if a moderator edited the row. Date of creation isn't as important for me because I have a field for the date that the person used the service they're entering.

In my case, the date is rarely recent. Being able to type it in would be better.

For multiple choice fields, there may be times when more than one choice would apply. If there are only two or three, adding Both, All, None, etc. could work, but it could get complicated if more choices were added.

It would be really nice if there were an Insert Column function. I had created several columns and realized I had left one out, so had to go back and redo all after that.

NOTE: To clarify for Diana: Checkbox is either on or off. Multiple Choice acts like an exclusive Radio Button, not allowing multiple choices.

Duane


locked Re: Database beta

 

Trish,

Found another suggestion: Ability to prevent certain characters from
being entered into a field (for example don't allow commas so that if we
choose to export, we won't have commas in the data messing up the
conversion of the txt file into a table in Word.
A common solution to this problem is to use a quoting character (often a quote mark) to surround fields which contain syntactic characters such as comma. For example:

Field 1,Field 2,"Field 3 has a , in it",Field 4

But then you need to have a way to quote a quote, etc.

Field 1,"Field 2 ends with a "",Field 3

It has been said that the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. And that seems to particularly apply to comma delimited format.

OR change the export feature so you can pick a random character to
identify the breaks between fields...allow user to enter the character
at time of export.
A common choice is between comma and tab, but I've also seen vertical bar and other characters used.

I would most likely pull a database table into Excel (not Word), and fortunately Excel has a fairly flexible Text-to-columns feature that allows the user to specify the delimiters and quoting characters used in a given input. I don't know that it could handle a field with multiple lines of text though...

Another container format to consider for database export might be JSON. That generally requires a programming library to parse, but it is better standardized.

-- Shal


Green Fizzpops
 

I set my test group to require hashtags.

In another, not-logged in, browser,I sent an email without a hashtag in the subject to my test group using my non-moderator test email address.

Two things:

(1)Since my test email address had not yet registered a password, clicking on the link I was sent to edit the subject, resulted in being redirected to the Please Sign In page. This is correct. I clicked on "Forgot password or don't have password". This went as expected. However, after I had registered  I was not redirected back to the page for editing the subject and I could not find that page from the menu selections available to me. My suggestion is to, if at all possible, redirect back to the editing subject page if the users had to register before editing. Either that, or make navigating back to that page easy and obvious.


(2) I eventually went back to the email and clicked on the link in it again. When I started typing in a hashtag I realised that I didn't actually know which hashtags were available. and there is no dropdown on that page showing me what existing ones are. Is there some combination of group settings that does make a hashtag dropdown or something similar visible? If not, my suggestion is to provide some mechanism on that page for the user to see available hashtags.


Regards

Green







locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

J,

Lol. I'm not the one assigning the 'P'.
You, or another moderator of the group, are the only ones that might.

I absolutely agree that the system should not assign a 'P' in that
case.
The system never assigns the "Override: not moderated" setting ('P') to any user in any case. Only a moderator might.

It sounds like that was the fundamental misunderstanding that fueled your investment in this thread.

-- Shal


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

J,

First a question of clarification. In discussing these badges are you talking about what a moderator sees when looking at the members list, or what a member sees when looking at the "Your Groups" list?

For the purpose of argument I've already ceded that those are very different perspectives, and that in the "Your Groups" list it might make sense to display badges that take into account both the member's individual Posting Privilege setting and the relevant group settings ("Announcement Group" and "Moderated").

So in what follows, I assume we're talking about a moderator viewing the Members list.

That's the problem, though. In the situation I described - group has New
Users Moderated checked, moderator overrides that default on a new user
resulting in that user having a "P," ...
End of story. The moderator overrode the setting and the member is no longer "NuM".

user then posts x number of posts where x is the required number for
MODERATED new users -
The count is not relevant if the member is not "NuM".

in this situation, the new user's subscription ceases to differ from the
group policies after he has posted x number of posts.
That's incorrect. A member set to "Override: not moderated" ('P') has a different setting than one set to "Default group policy" (blank). And it is important for moderators to be able to see that distinction when looking at the Members list.

So imagine that you see the "P" months or weeks or days later. It
*looks* as if that user's permissions differ from the group's default.
Because they *do* differ. A member with an "Override' setting is not subject to changes in the group setting, a member with the "Default" setting is. It is important that the moderator be able to see this distinction so that the moderator will know what will happen with this member after a change of group setting.

But *at that point in time*, they don't differ at all. That user, just
like all other users who have posted x number of posts, is unmoderated.
They do differ, precisely because the Override setting is remembered, and that member will remain unmoderated, regardless of whether the group's "Moderated" setting is subsequently checked or unchecked.

I think keeping that "P" at that point is meaningless and/or misleading
and/or may create confusion (or, if not confusion, a PITA for the
moderator to have to undo him- or herself, provided s/he even remembers
why the "P" was there in the first place).
The only way for it to be meaningless is if the act of unchecking the group's Moderated setting caused all members with "Override: not moderated" to be converted to "Default group policy". That would _very_ confusing and a major PITA for moderators who, upon re-checking the group's "Moderated" setting, find that they now have to remember which members had had the "P" and then go and re-set it for those members.

I think you should look at the approved post count in this situation, as
well, and remove the "P".
That would be impossible: that member's posts are no longer held for approval, regardless of the group setting (that's what the "P" means!).

-- Shal


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

On 6 Jan 2016 at 23:31, J_catlady wrote:

> Lol. I'm not the one assigning the 'P'. I absolutely agree that the
> •system• should not assign a 'P' in that case.

I meant you as the moderator.  In your scenario, you said that the moderator overrides the group policy and gives a P, Not Moderated.

Are you saying now that the system overrides the policy and gives the new user a P?

It is my understanding that the only way a user gets a P override is if a moderator does it.  Is that not correct?

--
Jim
Poston@...

<<        I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them. -Asimov          >>
  


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

Lol. I'm not the one assigning the 'P'. I absolutely agree that the •system• should not assign a 'P' in that case. That is exactly what I would like to see happen: no 'P' in that case, which is exactly what I just suggested to Mark.

I feel that there msg be other cases like this lurking. I feel that this is likely not the only one. I don't know what they are yet but (as I've said) I think things would be cleaner with the 'P' eliminated entirely. Just my gut feeling.
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2016, at 11:10 PM, Jim Poston <poston@vch-nv.us> wrote:

On 6 Jan 2016 at 22:36, J_catlady wrote:

group has New Users Moderated checked, moderator overrides that default
on a new user resulting in that user having a "P,"
Why would you give that user a P? Why not just change her to Default
Group Policy?

If you give her a P, then you're saying she's immune from Group Policy.
You've overridden group policy. Group policy no longer applies, doesn't
matter what it is.

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< Jimi Hendrix's modem was a purple Hayes. >>




locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

On 6 Jan 2016 at 22:36, J_catlady wrote:

group has New Users Moderated checked, moderator overrides that default
on a new user resulting in that user having a "P,"
Why would you give that user a P? Why not just change her to Default
Group Policy?

If you give her a P, then you're saying she's immune from Group Policy.
You've overridden group policy. Group policy no longer applies, doesn't
matter what it is.

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< Jimi Hendrix's modem was a purple Hayes. >>


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

On 6 Jan 2016 at 20:12, J_catlady wrote:

However, if the group is set to 'new members moderated' for x number of
posts, and a new member gets a 'P' because that default is overridden
and s/he is allowed to post from day one, then the designation 'P' is
no longer accurate or meaningful after the member has posted x number
of posts and is just like any other member with full posting
privileges. The 'P' should reasonably ho away at that point. It
doesn't.
The P is an override of the group policy. You can change the group policy
and the override should stay in effect.

If someone gets a P, he/she is no longer a new member. The x number of
posts doesn't apply. You've taken her out of the group policy. To me, it
would be illogical if it disappeared without a moderator changing it.

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< Plenty of room at the Hotel California ... >>


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

Another, much simpler solution would be to simply not set the "P" in the case of a group with New Users Moderated set and a new user with the override. You could just eliminate the NuM mark for that user instead of setting "P."

J


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

And yeah, it was bad. ;)


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 10:01 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:

As I think Shal mentioned, the labels are only to indicate when a subscription differs from the 'default' group properties, either with posting privileges, or moderator privileges, or if the user is bouncing or not confirmed.

That's the problem, though. In the situation I described - group has New Users Moderated checked, moderator overrides that default on a new user resulting in that user having a "P," user then posts x number of posts where x is the required number for MODERATED new users - in this situation, the new user's subscription ceases to differ from the group policies after he has posted x number of posts. So imagine that you see the "P" months or weeks or days later. It *looks* as if that user's permissions differ from the group's default. But *at that point in time*, they don't differ at all. That user, just like all other users who have posted x number of posts, is unmoderated. I think keeping that "P" at that point is meaningless and/or misleading and/or may create confusion (or, if not confusion, a PITA for the moderator to have to undo him- or herself, provided s/he even remembers why the "P" was there in the first place).

Behind the scenes, the posting privilege is just a field on a subscription record. Changing the posting privilege just sets this one field. We only look at the approved post count when the field is set to override: new user moderated.

I think you should look at the approved post count in this situation, as well, and remove the "P". 

J


 


locked Re: "P" next to member name

 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 8:14 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
ps This is a tempest in a 'P'-pot.;)


That was bad.  :-)

As I think Shal mentioned, the labels are only to indicate when a subscription differs from the 'default' group properties, either with posting privileges, or moderator privileges, or if the user is bouncing or not confirmed.

When New Users Moderated is checked on the group, that means that all new subscriptions start out with the post status of override: new user moderated. If you then change a subscription's post privilege to something else (like override: allowed to post), that means the system no longer treats that subscription as a new user, so the approved post count no longer applies.

You can change a 'normal' subscription's posting privilege to Override: new user moderated, and the system will treat the subscription just like a 'new' subscription that had been put on NuM, and the approved post count will then apply to this subscription.

Behind the scenes, the posting privilege is just a field on a subscription record. Changing the posting privilege just sets this one field. We only look at the approved post count when the field is set to override: new user moderated.

Hope this helps.
Mark


locked Re: Database beta

Trish McDonald
 

Just saw the export feature and tried it. Found another suggestion: Ability to prevent certain characters from being entered into a field (for example don't allow commas so that if we choose to export, we won't have commas in the data messing up the conversion of the txt file into a table in Word. OR change the export feature so you can pick a random character to identify the breaks between fields...allow user to enter the character at time of export. (I think I like that better than preventing commas which would probably drive a lot of people nuts. LOL) Export would then work fine for the highlighted suggestion below. 

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Trish M <happydogrescue@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,

Just started playing around with it.

Suggestions for my dream database: 
  • Ability to set alternating colors for columns and/or rows to make it visibly easier to view/read. Ability to set borders (boxes) and select color/thickness of border. View customization feature?
  • Ability to duplicate an existing table. This would be a very handy feature for my transport group as we use the same layout over and over but the records change each time.
  • For multiple-choice fields, put the drop-down arrow on the left. Currently it's on the far right and on my PC that puts it on the right side of a 22" screen. It's not obvious that it's got a drop-down menu of choices at first glance. Maybe shading or different color to make it more obvious? Or just a larger drop-down arrow?
  • Ability to insert photos into a database would be a VERY handy feature for my group.
  • When viewing a table that already has data, the check box on the left: ability to click that box on multiple rows and then hit a delete rows button once you're done selecting all of the rows you want to delete. Maybe also a duplicate this row option...
  • And then an undo button in case you've accidentally checked off a row you really didn't mean to delete or duplicate. LOL 
  • An expiration date for a database, so it disappears when it's no longer needed. For example, if you're using a database for an event and won't need the data once the event has passed, you can set an expiration date when you set up the database (revisable) so old data automatically goes away after a certain time period.
  • Ability to total columns or rows in a database (example: getting a quick headcount for an event or tallying the number of items needed)
  • Ability to copy an entire database and paste it into a Word document and have it come out looking like a table with borders.
  • Ability to share a database with specific people (like sharing a google doc to a distribution list) who may or may not be listmembers on that particular group. (Example: we have shelters, rescues, and drivers. Not everyone is involved in every transport, but for every transport we need to send that database out to every particular person involved in that trip. So basically everyone whose email address is listed in the database would need to be notified when the transport information is ready. This notification would be something a coordinator would need to do. They wouldn't necessarily be a moderator on the group, but only a small percentage of the group members are coordinators. So maybe a feature you can assign to specific people for each database? Am I making sense? LOL It's late.)
  • Make a database easily viewable on smartphones. More and more we're finding our people are not using PC's to look at the data. They are on the road and want to be able to check info from their phones.
  • Love that it's already sortable by column headings. Add the capability to sort on multiple columns? (Example: Sort by Column A, Ascending; then within that, sort by column F, Descending)
  • Show who added each row using the name they have in their profile. Added/updated by: Jane Smith (name clickable to contact Jane) on 1/4/16.

Thanks
Trish​

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

I just pushed the database feature to the site. It's only enabled for groups that have the beta flag set (if you want your group enabled for this, send me an email off-list).

It's beta. It's new code, there may be bugs. There are a couple missing features and rough edges. But I'd appreciate feedback. It's like Yahoo's database feature, only with the additional ability of specifying different column types and whether a column is required to be filled out. Here's how it works:

You can create tables. Each table has a set of 1 or more columns. Each column can be one of the following: single line text, paragraph, checkbox, multiple choice, date, time, address. You can specify whether a column is required or optional.

You can set permissions on each table for who can view or edit the table, and who can add or edit rows. 

In the Settings page for your group, you can set who can see and create tables, much like the other features.

The display of an individual table is a bit rough right now, especially for tables with a lot of columns. I will make that better.

Currently, there are no options for setting notifications. I can make database notifications work similarly to other moderator notifications, or something else. I'd appreciate thoughts on which notifications you'd like.

One use for the database feature will be in specifying a questionnaire for new users to fill out. You could set up a table that's only viewable to moderators, but that (pending) members can add rows to, and then in your Pending Member email, point people to it. I'd appreciate any thoughts you may have on how to make this easy to do.

Anyways, please play around with it and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
Mark