Date   

locked Re: Edit time out for posts

Frances
 

Interesting point, David..

If we use a hashtag in our forum for posts with our recommended travel sites, I could at any point check the links in these hastagged posts and update the links in them as necessary. 

If there are concerns about editing at a much later date, "late" edits could be restricted to the owner or moderator.

At this point, I forget all about the rules of hashtags in Groups.io, but I believe that the list owner or moderator must create the hashtags. Can some be locked so only the owner or moderator can use them? Perhaps this overlaps with an earlier discussion of private hashtags.


locked Re: Edit time out for posts

David P. Dillard
 

If I am reading this correctly and posts on IO may be edited, this is a revolutionary and important development. I have stopped linking to posts as much as they are carved in stone. If a post is shared on a pubically archived list and one links to this post, when the content such as lists of website links becomes invalidated by the presence of several dead links, one must repost the whole message and relink to the new content.
Now in IO it would seem one can just go into the post and change or delete the links. This is truely wonderful and will help me greatly.



Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Frances,
You edited an already sent/archived post? Currently, when you edit it, it does not get re-sent to members.. I realize how
important that feature is, and once I finish the wiki (early next week), that's the next thing on the todo list.
Thanks,
Mark
On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Frances <travel@tansymews.ca> wrote:

Just edited my previous post rather than posting a followup. Just realized it was 10 or 15 minutes ago that I wrote
the first "draft" and sent it. 

At what point does it go out to members? At what time? Or do they get another copy with the edits in it?

Just wondering for future reference.


locked Re: Edit time out for posts

Frances
 

In my post of wikis, I added this:

I just looked at the info you gave for files, Mark. What format “files” need to be in? Can they be files with HTML so that there are clickable links? 


locked Re: Edit time out for posts

 

Frances,

You edited an already sent/archived post? Currently, when you edit it, it does not get re-sent to members.. I realize how important that feature is, and once I finish the wiki (early next week), that's the next thing on the todo list.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

Just edited my previous post rather than posting a followup. Just realized it was 10 or 15 minutes ago that I wrote the first "draft" and sent it. 

At what point does it go out to members? At what time? Or do they get another copy with the edits in it?

Just wondering for future reference.



locked Edit time out for posts

Frances
 

Just edited my previous post rather than posting a followup. Just realized it was 10 or 15 minutes ago that I wrote the first "draft" and sent it. 

At what point does it go out to members? At what time? Or do they get another copy with the edits in it?

Just wondering for future reference.


locked Re: Wiki

Frances
 

It's been a few years since I created or maintained a wiki, but I liked Wikispaces. I was able to use the simple wiki I created to demo wikis as part of my job in the public library. Someone else set up a PBwiki but either the preferences they set up or the format they chose made it difficult to use. (I see that Wikispaces is no longer offering free non-educational wiki space.)

All I am looking for is a simple way of creating an index to a few pages, each with a list of external links on each page. Static web pages (or blog posts) would work just as well for our purposes. For example, with Wordpress, I can choose to create pages or posts. Pages can have subpages. 

I don't know the answer to this, and I am not sure what other people need from this. 

I just looked at the info you gave for files, Mark. What format “files” need to be in? Can they be files with HTML so that there are clickable links? 

Just wondering whether a wiki is overkill for what we need.




locked Re: Wiki

 

Mark,

One solution to this is that when doing the diff I could first strip the
HTML. That would show the differences in text, but not formatting.
That seems reasonable. I agree with Ian that PBworks has a lot right with how they do things, including the page history and comparison of revisions.

The second issue involves sortable tables. Ideally, I'd like the wiki
section to take the place of both the Links and Database sections in Y!
Groups. That feels like the right thing to do to me..
I thought so at first, and maybe still do for the Links. But the pre-Neo database had some useful tricks that might be hard to emulate in a Wiki table. Or maybe not, but one wouldn't ordinarily think of them in a wiki context.

One was to have separate authority to 1) add rows, 2) see rows, and 3) format the table. It was possible to give the moderators to determine the format of the table (including number of columns and column descriptions) while allowing members to add rows and edit their own rows only (not the rows added by other members).

It was even possible to give members the ability to add rows but not to see other members' rows - this effectively created a "drop-box" capability where members could share information privately with the moderators.

And, these detailed privilege settings were defined on a per-table basis. Or, perhaps the fact that these are per-table privileges provides the escape hatch necessary to allow this to work in a wiki environment. But that also opens up the question of what view/edit privilege controls should exist for a) the wiki feature as a whole and b) on a per-page basis.

Another set of useful capabilities came and went with the "Groups Labs" applications. Those were essentially extended function tables, where the columns were typed, had descriptions and edit hints, and other aspects of a more powerful database than the simple text cells of the regular Yahoo Groups Database feature. Didn't go as far as being relational though, nor being able to pull in content from the Members list or other inherent tables of the group.

To do that, you need to be able to create tables and be able to sort
them in different ways. Wikipedia has a sortable table that does just
this; but they use their own formatting code to do it.
As Ian said, PBworks does this too. They use what looks (in Source edit mode) like ordinary HTML table elements but declared with

<table class="pbSortable" ...

which presumably clues something in the page render to implement the table sort ability. I don't like the fact that the sort markers in the header row (arrows) don't show until you first click in a header row. If the capability is there the affordance should be evident.

Again, I can solve this problem by not using HTML pages and instead
using a different markup format.
I think most users will be best served with a WYSIWYG page editor, regardless of the underlying representation. With that in place it may be less important what markup language (HTML, markdown, ad-hoc) is behind it.

The other solution is to not try to combine the wiki and links/database
section; I'd create a separate, dedicated database section. This has its
own set of plusses and minuses.
As hinted above, an advantage of a dedicated database section is that it makes wrangling the metadata clear: you can have a page view for each entry (row) that exposes metadata like author and date/time even if those aren't columns in the table view. And there's a clear meaning to the log entries that would go with editing a row's content or the table format.

I think if the table capability were wrapped in a wiki page that might be really powerful for some purposes, but I would want to preserve all the metadata power that the database form offers, something that PBworks' tables don't even aspire to do.

Those are the two issues I'm wrestling with at the moment. Thoughts or
suggestions would be appreciated!
One other feature of the PBworks' pages that I really love is the Table of Contents widget. Very handy indeed.

-- Shal


locked Re: Wiki

 

Hi Mark,
I'm using PBWorks wikis to document the history of Marconi Radar in a collaborative fashion.

I'm not competent to comment on the coding requirements, but here are my impressions as a user.

For me the way PBWorks does the change report is entirely adequate, viz. full detail of textual changes but "Only Formatting Differences" (undefined) where there has been no substantive change.

I also like the way PBWorks has the ability to opt for a sortable table with the sort being user-defined up or down by selected column.

HTH,
Ian

On 11 December 2014 at 23:23, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

I've been working on wiki functionality, but I'm stuck and I need some help deciding what to do. If you don't know what a wiki is or does, this post probably won't make much sense; apologies for that.

As I have it now, the wiki consists of HTML pages, editable with the standard wysiwyg editor that is used to compose posts on the site. I like this much better than other wikis that require you to know markdown or some other wiki formatting code. It feels right to me. But there are a couple issues.

First issue is that part of a wiki is the ability to show the differences between edits to a page, to see what's changed (aka a diff). Doing a diff on two HTML pages is problematic, and I'm not sure I can create a page that will show the differences nicely. It's much easier to do a diff on two pages that are composed using markdown or some other wiki formatting code. One solution to this is that when doing the diff I could first strip the HTML. That would show the differences in text, but not formatting. Another solution is that I could not use HTML and go instead with markdown or something else. But that makes creating wiki pages more difficult.

The second issue involves sortable tables. Ideally, I'd like the wiki section to take the place of both the Links and Database sections in Y! Groups. That feels like the right thing to do to me.. To do that, you need to be able to create tables and be able to sort them in different ways. Wikipedia has a sortable table that does just this; but they use their own formatting code to do it. Again, I can solve this problem by not using HTML pages and instead using a different markup format. The other solution is to not try to combine the wiki and links/database section; I'd create a separate, dedicated database section. This has its own set of plusses and minuses.

Those are the two issues I'm wrestling with at the moment. Thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Mark



locked Re: Wiki

 

"Again, I can solve this problem by not using HTML pages and instead using a different markup format" - why not add a particular class to the HTML table and apply sortability to any table with the class?


locked Wiki

 

Hi All,

I've been working on wiki functionality, but I'm stuck and I need some help deciding what to do. If you don't know what a wiki is or does, this post probably won't make much sense; apologies for that.

As I have it now, the wiki consists of HTML pages, editable with the standard wysiwyg editor that is used to compose posts on the site. I like this much better than other wikis that require you to know markdown or some other wiki formatting code. It feels right to me. But there are a couple issues.

First issue is that part of a wiki is the ability to show the differences between edits to a page, to see what's changed (aka a diff). Doing a diff on two HTML pages is problematic, and I'm not sure I can create a page that will show the differences nicely. It's much easier to do a diff on two pages that are composed using markdown or some other wiki formatting code. One solution to this is that when doing the diff I could first strip the HTML. That would show the differences in text, but not formatting. Another solution is that I could not use HTML and go instead with markdown or something else. But that makes creating wiki pages more difficult.

The second issue involves sortable tables. Ideally, I'd like the wiki section to take the place of both the Links and Database sections in Y! Groups. That feels like the right thing to do to me.. To do that, you need to be able to create tables and be able to sort them in different ways. Wikipedia has a sortable table that does just this; but they use their own formatting code to do it. Again, I can solve this problem by not using HTML pages and instead using a different markup format. The other solution is to not try to combine the wiki and links/database section; I'd create a separate, dedicated database section. This has its own set of plusses and minuses.

Those are the two issues I'm wrestling with at the moment. Thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Mark


 

Changes to the site today:

- Changed how we decode encoded emails. We are now more permissive and will ignore badly encoded parts of messages.
- Fixed a bug that collapsed messages in the archives with just a quoted section and no other section.
- Two fixes with bounce processing.
- Fixed one archived email that was originally incorrectly processed (from the bug fixed Friday).
- Some changes to the marketing text to include the newly launched Files section.


Mark


locked Re: Collapsing messages forwarded to a group

 

Thanks for the bug report. It's been fixed.

Mark

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 5:48 AM, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:

Here we can see that the first message in this thread is collapsed when he forwarded a message to this list. I would think that this message shouldn't be collapsed.



locked Collapsing messages forwarded to a group

 

Here we can see that the first message in this thread is collapsed when he forwarded a message to this list. I would think that this message shouldn't be collapsed.


locked Re: Receiving own messages

 

I would support Shal in both points, viz. "Reflect Own Post" and "Moderate Me Too".

If there were a "Return my own posts: Never, If Edited, or Always" button I'd leave it on "Always" - the reflection is an indication that the post has been received and distributed; it could have failed without a bounce message being sent.

regards,
Ian

On 8 December 2014 at 00:18, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Chris,

> I noticed that when I post to a group I receive the email. That seems
> less than ideal.

To me that's expected behavior, and desired. Desired because a moderator may have edited the message while pending. I dislike using Gmail for mailing lists specifically because it tends to hide the returned message from me.

But I suppose that could be a subscription option: Return my own posts: Never, If Edited, or Always.

> Also, when I post to a moderated group, I have to approve my own messages.

You can always adjust your own Posting Privileges to Override the group policy (click on your own row in the Members list).

Again, that is something I value. It gives me a chance to review my message "one last time" to see if the content and tone are what I want them to be.

It isn't so much an issue these days, but at one time it was also important to make sure no malcontent (and no spambot or virus) had spoofed my email address and sent junk to the group in my name. That's embarrassing as a member, it can be _very_ embarrassing as a moderator.

-- Shal



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

Mute This Thread: https://groups.io/mt/13975?uid=309
Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/editsub?uid=309
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/leave
Group Home: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta
Contact Group Owner: beta+owner@groups.io
Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-





locked Re: Receiving own messages

 

Chris,

I noticed that when I post to a group I receive the email. That seems
less than ideal.
To me that's expected behavior, and desired. Desired because a moderator may have edited the message while pending. I dislike using Gmail for mailing lists specifically because it tends to hide the returned message from me.

But I suppose that could be a subscription option: Return my own posts: Never, If Edited, or Always.

Also, when I post to a moderated group, I have to approve my own messages.
You can always adjust your own Posting Privileges to Override the group policy (click on your own row in the Members list).

Again, that is something I value. It gives me a chance to review my message "one last time" to see if the content and tone are what I want them to be.

It isn't so much an issue these days, but at one time it was also important to make sure no malcontent (and no spambot or virus) had spoofed my email address and sent junk to the group in my name. That's embarrassing as a member, it can be _very_ embarrassing as a moderator.

-- Shal


locked Receiving own messages

 

I noticed that when I post to a group I receive the email. That seems less than ideal.

Also, when I post to a moderated group, I have to approve my own messages.


 

Changes to the site today:

- Changed the Files section so that clicking on files stored within it will return the file with the proper filename for web browsers to interpret.

- Changed the web server configuration to allow for file uploads up to 20mb in size.

- Fixed a bug in processing attachments that was causing some attachments to not show in the archives. Some additional work will need to be done to complete the fix for older messages.


Mark


locked Re: Love email aliases!

 

Great! :)

Mark

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

Just thinking it would be useful to be able to post from a different email address - and lo and behold, I can! Thanks, Mark. Easy to set up in Profile, and works perfectly.



locked Love email aliases!

Frances
 

Just thinking it would be useful to be able to post from a different email address - and lo and behold, I can! Thanks, Mark. Easy to set up in Profile, and works perfectly.


 

Changes to the site today:

- Pushed the Files section to the live site.

- Changed +owner behavior to just bounce the message to owners. The old behavior was to include a message at the top saying it was a message to the +owner address, which caused a lot of issues.

- Cleaned up the Send Invites screen and changed the wording to hopefully make it more clear.

- Changed all the buttons under messages (Reply/Edit/Delete) to links, for a cleaner appearance.


Mark