Date   

locked Re: Search and download the activity log

 

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

> [Beta] New comment on card "Search and download the activity log." by Mark
> Fletcher:
>
> Especially the ability to search by email address.

Bump. As my groups get older their activity logs are getting longer. Search capability in the logs is becoming more needed. Some questions are now impractical to answer.


Sorry for not getting to this sooner. I've been working on this today, fixing some issues with the activity log. There was a bug when viewing the activity of a specific member that caused many activities to not be shown. That's been fixed.

The way the activity log is implemented, searching by email address will require some work (we store user ids, not emails, in the activity records). I'll make it happen at some point, but more quickly, I can add the filtering that Y! Groups has (show a specific action, with an optional date). Would that help? Do you like/use Yahoo's implementation, and do you have suggestions for how that could be better?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Group transfer without owner's permission

Joe Atkinson
 

Thanks everyone for all your guidance on this topic.

Joe


locked Re: Group transfer without owner's permission

 

In this case, "take over" means being promoted to moderator (if needed)
and granted all privileges except Delete Group. A moderator with the
privilege to "Add, remove, and change moderator privileges" can do
everything an owner can do, except promote someone to owner or remove owner
status.

So in the context of the request for help, if one the moderators has this
privilege, or can get through the process to have Yahoo give it to them,
then they effectively own the group, and can use Easy Group Transfer with no
need for Mark's help.

-- Shal
I guess I didn't understand what Mark wrote. I was under the impression that
unless the owner was involved, the system wouldn't move the message
archives.

If it's as you state, I don't have a problem. I have an absent owner, and
went through the whole process with Yahoo. Yahoo gave me all other
priveleges including promoting moderators and setting their authorities.

Dano


locked Re: Group transfer without owner's permission

 

Joe,

I'm checking with the other moderator now to see if they have those
privileges, and also sent out a final plea to the group owner to ask for
his cooperation, but if those don't pan out, I'll likely be looking at
the direct add option.
You can also petition Yahoo for the needed privilege. Although the description doesn't mention moderators, the procedure works the same.

"Replace inactive moderators and owners"
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/sln7163.html

Some members in this Yahoo Group have succeeded, and may be willing to share advice.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GroupManagersForum/info

In my case, I'm new here, so I wasn't even aware there was a fee. :-)
However, I agree that it'd be worth the $10.
See the "Upgrade" page in your group.

Would you please provide more detail on the Chrome app you mentioned?
http://yahoogroupedia.pbworks.com/Chrome+Application+To+Download+Messages

Does a similar app exist to move photos and/or files from a Yahoo
group?
Not similar, but there is PG Offline and other products to do it. See also various discussions in that Yahoo Group I cited about other ways to download information from your Yahoo Groups.

-- Shal


locked Re: Group transfer without owner's permission

vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

 Shal>>A moderator with the privilege to "Add, remove, and change moderator privileges" can do everything an owner can do, except promote someone to owner or remove owner status.

They weren't able to remove the mod owner or  change mod privileges.. 
The mod owner was inactive which is why they were looking to create a new group with group. io

>>>> if one the moderators has this privilege, or can get through the process to have Yahoo give it to them, 
 Exactly what I was trying to point out according to yahoo TOS , Yahoo's  instructions on how  to step in as the new  mod owner.


Thank you Shal


Vickie

 






From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Group transfer without owner's permission

Vickie wrote:

> According to Yahoo policy. if a moderator is MIA any member or co mod
> can take over the group

In this case, "take over" means being promoted to moderator (if needed) and granted all privileges except Delete Group. A moderator with the privilege to "Add, remove, and change moderator privileges" can do everything an owner can do, except promote someone to owner or remove owner status.

So in the context of the request for help, if one the moderators has this privilege, or can get through the process to have Yahoo give it to them, then they effectively own the group, and can use Easy Group Transfer with no need for Mark's help.

-- Shal








locked Re: Group transfer without owner's permission

Joe Atkinson
 

Shal, thanks very much.  I'm in a similar situation with a group I help to moderate.  I have an exported (Yahoo-generated) member list, but don't have the ability to alter roles in order to allow an automated Groups.io move.  I'm checking with the other moderator now to see if they have those privileges, and also sent out a final plea to the group owner to ask for his cooperation, but if those don't pan out, I'll likely be looking at the direct add option.

> I suppose one thing they might be asking is for you to waive the Direct Add fee for their situation; I wouldn't -
> importing the complete group has to be worth $10 to them.

In my case, I'm new here, so I wasn't even aware there was a fee. :-)  However, I agree that it'd be worth the $10.

> In that case they have to download the messages themselves (using the Chrome Application).
> You've already answered for yourself that copying the messages doesn't present a legal problem
> for Groups.io, so I don't see a strong reason not to help them. Except that it is a manual effort
> for you, which doesn't scale. So it is up to how generous you're feeling.

Would you please provide more detail on the Chrome app you mentioned?  Does a similar app exist to move photos and/or files from a Yahoo group?

Joe


locked Re: Group transfer without owner's permission

 

Vickie wrote:

According to Yahoo policy. if a moderator is MIA any member or co mod
can take over the group
In this case, "take over" means being promoted to moderator (if needed) and granted all privileges except Delete Group. A moderator with the privilege to "Add, remove, and change moderator privileges" can do everything an owner can do, except promote someone to owner or remove owner status.

So in the context of the request for help, if one the moderators has this privilege, or can get through the process to have Yahoo give it to them, then they effectively own the group, and can use Easy Group Transfer with no need for Mark's help.

-- Shal


locked Re: Group transfer without owner's permission

 

Mark,

Is there any way a Yahoo group could be copied to Groups.io without that
Yahoo group owner's involvement/cooperation, but set up under a
different owner on Groups.io?
I assume in this context that none of those moderators has the privilege to "Add, remove, and change moderator privileges" (because if any of them did, they could use Easy Group Transfer and needn't ask for your help). So presumably they've extracted a list of the members' email addresses by some other means.

If none of those moderators have access to the members list (possible, but I'd imagine unlikely) then there's nothing much you _can_ do for them.

Alternatively, could I and the other moderators of this Yahoo group
manually direct-add the membership of that group to a new Groups.io
group under our ownership?
If they're willing to pay the fee for Direct Add (and have extracted the list) then again they don't need your help. If not, they can use the Invite page.

So I'll agree with Trish, Judy F, James, and Dano (and you): in general no aid is needed. I suppose one thing they might be asking is for you to waive the Direct Add fee for their situation; I wouldn't - importing the complete group has to be worth $10 to them. On the other hand, I don't think you need to do anything to hinder their efforts using Direct Add or Invite.

That leaves the messages in question.

Again they only need your help if they can't use Easy Group Transfer.

In that case they have to download the messages themselves (using the Chrome Application). You've already answered for yourself that copying the messages doesn't present a legal problem for Groups.io, so I don't see a strong reason not to help them. Except that it is a manual effort for you, which doesn't scale. So it is up to how generous you're feeling.

-- Shal


locked Site Updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site since Monday:

  • CHANGE: Remove the group description from direct add messages.
  • CHANGE: Various text changes to make things easier to understand.
  • NEW: Added 'Bcc: Moderators' checkbox when rejecting pending messages.
  • NEW: Confirmation and Reconfirmation emails now have Gmail action links (those links next to the date in Gmail with the diagonal arrow going up).
  • NEW: Pending messages are automatically claimed when they are edited, as discussed on beta@.
  • BUGFIX: Yahoo group transfers now respects the post status of members.
  • BUGFIX: Fixed an issue that in some circumstances led to erroneous message approval emails when transferring Yahoo Group messages.
  • CHANGE: Better wording for yahoo group transfer instructions.
  • NEW: Yahoo group transfers now by default include the group messages.
  • NEW: Messages with Unsubscribe (case insensitive) for a subject are now treated as groupname+unsubscribe.
  • NEW: Reconfirmation emails are now different from confirmation emails.

Cheers, Mark


locked Re: A thought on moderation

 

Hi All,

I went heads down for a few hours and was able to implement the pending message claim system we discussed. When you edit a pending message, you claim it. If someone else tries to do something to that message, they get a dialog saying it's been claimed by another person. If you try to approve/reject an already claimed message through email, you will get an error message.

Lots of code changes. Lots of exciting possibilities for new bugs. :-) Let me know if you see anything funny or have suggestions for improvements.

Also, I added the 'BCC: Moderators' checkbox to the Reject dialog as well.

Thanks,
Mark

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 7:00 AM, DR Stinson <dano@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Making quoted text read correctly. Posting by email added hard returns where it shouldn't have.]

> ...I'd add something that's always been on my wish list. I'd love the reject message pop-up to have a check mark ''CC: Mods?''

I think that makes sense. When I reject a message, I'd like to have the
option of letting the other moderators know why. It lets us 'stay on the
same page', and sometimes it might help them understand how to deal with
that same person in the future.

Dano






locked Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page

 

Mark,

Bottom line, here's my "wish list" suggestion for making it easier for people who don't as yet have a Groups.io password to subscribe a group (and may be reticent to create one) when sent the group's home page:

Have a "Subscribe to This Group" box, which would subscribe them to the group requiring only their email address, and would not force them to create a password. This would replace the current "join" or "apply for membership" box, which currently requires them to create a password; it would, in effect, duplicate the "subscribe" address under the list of emails, but that seems inconsequential. It would make the email-subscription process evident and easier. (Of course, if the group requires approval for membership/subscription, that process would take place as usual.)

Below, or somewhere near, it, you could have a box allowing them to create a password, with language to the effect of "For full site access, create a Groups.io password here (not required for group subscription):"

Olivia_J





locked Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page

 

Linda,

The non-login was a test to see the result of a non-logged-in email address applying for subscription (or membership) in a group. There was no danger of anyone "pretending to be" the other email address. But thanks for your reply.

Olivia_J


locked Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page

Linda
 

Hi Olivia,
2. Associating a password with your email address, protects your account from being used by someone pretending to be you.

Of course I use an email password. This whole discussion has centered around Groups.io passwords. Are you equating email passwords with Groups.io passwords? In that case, I must be really confused.

I was not talking about an email password and not equating email passwords with Groups.io passwords.  I was talking only about your members having to subscribe to Groups.io with a password, which you suggested would be a stumbling block for them.  I don’t agree.

I’ll leave the rest of this discussion to Mark. 

Linda


locked Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page

 

1. "IMO subscribe would be misleading, since membership requires approval."

Subscription can also require approval. I don't see a problem and agree with Mark's suggestion to stick to the word "subscribe" instead of "join" for groups. It doesn't matter whether the group requires approval or not to subscribe to it.

2. Associating a password with your email address, protects your account from being used by someone pretending to be you.

Of course I use an email password. This whole discussion has centered around Groups.io passwords. Are you equating email passwords with Groups.io passwords? In that case, I must be really confused.

3. I’m sure there must be a perfectly good reason, such as a public archive, why you were able to read the messages on that new group.

I was able to read a file. I did not refer to messages. That said, yes, the archive was public last night until I changed it to private. Are files considered part of the archive?



locked Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page

Linda
 

Olivia,
IMO subscribe would be misleading, since membership requires approval. 
 
Associating a password with your email address, protects your account from being used by someone pretending to be you.
 
I’m sure there must be a perfectly good reason, such as a public archive, why you were able to read the messages on that new group.
 
Linda
 

Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:57 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page
 

Linda,

I'm a HUGE fan of Groups.io. No need to reassure me there.;)

Re being logged in already from the other email address: As I tried to explain, I used a different browser for that and was not logged in.

My group needs to require approval for membership (or subscription, as Mark prefers to call it, and I agree), and I'm not willing to do away with that requirement.

The issue is the placement on the page (as well as the language) of the "apply for membership" button. The context is not my sending them an invitation - there's no problem with that. The problem occurs when someone else recommends my group to someone who does not have a Groups.io password. The "apply for membership" button requires them to create one and is (in my opinion) misleading. I want the "subscribe" option (sans password) more prominent on the page in order to facilitate that rather than them just giving up.

Olivia_J


locked Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page

 

Linda,

I'm a HUGE fan of Groups.io. No need to reassure me there.;)

Re being logged in already from the other email address: As I tried to explain, I used a different browser for that and was not logged in.

My group needs to require approval for membership (or subscription, as Mark prefers to call it, and I agree), and I'm not willing to do away with that requirement.

The issue is the placement on the page (as well as the language) of the "apply for membership" button. The context is not my sending them an invitation - there's no problem with that. The problem occurs when someone else recommends my group to someone who does not have a Groups.io password. The "apply for membership" button requires them to create one and is (in my opinion) misleading. I want the "subscribe" option (sans password) more prominent on the page in order to facilitate that rather than them just giving up.

Olivia_J


locked Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page

Linda
 

Hi Olivia,
Your alias email address uses the same login as the email address it’s associated with.  So when you’re logged in, you’re logged in.
 
Regarding your last point, “apply for membership” means that members have to be approved whereas “join” or “subscribe”, means you click and you’ve become a member.
 
It is confusing to people if you send them to Yahoo when you want them to join your group on Groups.io.  Just give them the Groups.io URL and if you want it to say join, don’t require approval of new members.
 
Regarding your other message, the terminology is only confusing because it’s new to you.  Give it a chance.  Groups.io is a fabulous service.  It will become second nature to you just as Yahoo did, with all its warts.
 
Hope that helps,
Linda
 

Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:24 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: suggestion: make subscription by email more obvious on home page
 

Linda,

I think I got all of that. (One exception: here, as I'm sure you know and as Mark just explained to me, you can also log in via FB or google.)

(Also: my alias email address joined a group last night via invitation, did NOT log into Groups.io, and was able to see everything in that group. This could be a bug, though.)

I still think that the home page "apply for membership in this group" button is misleading, since it requires a password. Once I get the other answers from Mark, I can create a wishlist for how I'd ideally like it to be.

Meanwhile, I think I've come up with a workaround for recommendations to the group from outsiders. The recommendation can still recommend my old Yahoo group and provide a link. When the person clicks on the link, they would see my (home grown) instructions for joining my Groups.io. group. But ideally, I won't have to do that. Ideally, Mark will make it very easy to subscribe to a group from the group's home page, without being side-tracked by the "apply for membership" box and having to provide a password.

Olivia_J

 


locked Re: ("moderates [groups]") #bug

 

Actually, here's what I think the problem is: those other groups I own showed up yesterday when I clicked on my user name. But last night, I made their archives private. The groups themselves, however, are supposed to be "listed in the directory," since I chose the privacy option "listed in directory, archives private."

I will change my complaint: I think groups that are listed in the directory should show up when you click on a user name. Why hide them here if they're not hidden in the directory? I want as many people as possible to see (and therefore be able to join) my groups. 


locked Re: ("moderates [groups]") #bug

 

Linda,

Ok. I see it means I moderate three OTHER groups LOL. They're not showing up because they're private, not because I omitted my user name. (There's another group I'm in that's private and not showing up here, either.)

I think the terminology is confusing. But then, I am very literal-minded.;)

Olivia_J


locked Re: ("moderates [groups]") #bug

Linda
 

Hi Olivia,
  • updates
  • GroupManagersForum
  • beta
are three groups you belong to.
 
The three groups you own are not listed. 
 
Compare the profiles https://groups.io/editprofile?page=profile on OliviaTest with the three groups you own.  I suspect you have omitted the User Name @ on the three groups you own.
 
Hope that helps,
Linda
 

Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:18 PM
Subject: [beta] #bug ("moderates [groups]")
 

I clicked on my user name just now (in the thread title of one of the threads I'd started in beta) and the following popped up:

  • Moderates 3 groups
  • updates
  • GroupManagersForum
  • beta
  • OliviaTest M

  • Obviously, I don't moderate any of these groups! (besides "OliviaTest"). Also, I'm not sure what the "M" means since I am the owner of OliviaTest. I also own three other groups and none of them are showing up, and I am a moderated member of another group and that one is not showing up, either. I haven't seen this behavior before so perhaps things are just in a state of flux...