Date   

locked Re: trimming and e-mail

 

No problem at all! If you come across terms you don't know or have suggestions for how we can make the site easier to understand, please say so. I'll be the first to admit that there's a lot that can be done to make the site easier to understand.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
okay, sorry for all the questions.  
so many of the emails are totally foreign to me; I have no idea what most of the words mean, but I guess I will learn.   My groups are mostly just fun stuff.
Cherrill





On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Cherrill,

Ronaldo was just asking about how the messages are displayed in the archives. We don't delete anything. And the quoted parts are just collapsed (not shown).. You can click a button and they'll show up. It's just to try to make the archives easier to read.

Hope this helps.
Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
if I am understanding this correctly, I would not want anything deleted.  That is up to the group members if that is a rule of the group; which it is in a lot of canine/feline health groups, but isn’t in just chatty groups

Cherrill





On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:34 AM, ro-esp@... wrote:

Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email?  Is there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting ( http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
                                                groetjes, Ronaldo







locked Re: trimming and e-mail

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

okay, sorry for all the questions.  
so many of the emails are totally foreign to me; I have no idea what most of the words mean, but I guess I will learn.   My groups are mostly just fun stuff.
Cherrill





On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Cherrill,

Ronaldo was just asking about how the messages are displayed in the archives. We don't delete anything. And the quoted parts are just collapsed (not shown). You can click a button and they'll show up. It's just to try to make the archives easier to read.

Hope this helps.
Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
if I am understanding this correctly, I would not want anything deleted.  That is up to the group members if that is a rule of the group; which it is in a lot of canine/feline health groups, but isn’t in just chatty groups

Cherrill





On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:34 AM, ro-esp@... wrote:

Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email?  Is there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting ( http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
                                                groetjes, Ronaldo






locked Re: trimming and e-mail

 

Cherrill,

Ronaldo was just asking about how the messages are displayed in the archives. We don't delete anything. And the quoted parts are just collapsed (not shown). You can click a button and they'll show up. It's just to try to make the archives easier to read.

Hope this helps.
Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
if I am understanding this correctly, I would not want anything deleted.  That is up to the group members if that is a rule of the group; which it is in a lot of canine/feline health groups, but isn’t in just chatty groups

Cherrill





On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:34 AM, ro-esp@... wrote:

Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email?  Is there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting ( http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
                                                groetjes, Ronaldo



locked Re: trimming and e-mail

 

Hi Ronaldo,

Figuring out what's quoted and what isn't is a very tricky thing to do programmatically, because there are so many different ways of indicating quoting. What we try to do right now is only collapse a quoted part of a message if there's only one quoted part of the message, and if the quoted part falls at the end of the message. It's more tricky if it's an HTML message, and we're not as good at it as I'd like, but that's the goal.

Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:34 AM, <ro-esp@...> wrote:
Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email?  Is there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting ( http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
                                                groetjes, Ronaldo



locked Re: Invite flow

 

Hi Shal,


On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
1) The Email address box could parse these as equivalent:

Display Name <email@...>
email@...

Currently it rejects the first with
"Display Name <email@...>: Invalid email address "

Better, it could take "Display Name" as the tentative name of the member, confirmed or overridden when the member responds to the invitation..

Excellent idea. It's on the TODO list.
 

2) The Invite Message box looks like a plain text entry box. When I put simple HTML code in it I saw the literal code, as if editing in a plain-text entry form.

However, that code controlled the formatting inside the invitation email. Apparently the handling of that text is HTML-aware in at least some sense, as the text/plain message body of the invite had the HTML tags stripped, whereas the text/HTML part retained my coding. I had expected the opposite: the text/plain would show exactly what I typed and the text/HTML would have the tags escaped so as to show as plain text.

I don't suggest that the processing be changed to match my expectation, rather add a hint somewhere to the invite form that lets the user know that (at least limited) HTML is ok in the Invite Message. Or perhaps better still, make that an HTML edit control like the Post composition window.

Hmm. I'm a little surprised that the HTML wasn't escaped in the message itself. Anyways, the text box should be HTML and you should be able to enter HTML in the invite message. I've put it on the TODO list.

 
3) This is an edge case, but in testing I invited an address, accepted via email, then removed that new member. A second attempt to invite the address gave me the error "Already invited". Sure enough, the address still showed on the "Outstanding Invitations" tab, but if I hadn't thought to look there I wouldn't have known what to do.

I'm not sure whether there's an action item here or not. It is tempting to suggest that the member should be removed from the Outstanding Invitations list if they leave or are removed from the group. But since "Send Again" is an action in that list I don't know if that is necessary.

Right, I'm not sure the best way to handle this. Right now, invites stick around forever, regardless of what the invitee does. Rescinding the invitation just deletes the invite record from the database, it doesn't affect the invitee's subscription, if there is one. So the moderator can 'maintain' the invite list this way. But perhaps some automation would help.

 
4) The "Send Again" item does not appear to work. It unchecked the box but gave no other indication of sending another invitation. Nor was another received. Probably related to the above edge case. The "Rescind Invitation" action removed that address from the list and allowed me to send a new invitation.

Ugh. I looked the code, and found the following:

case "again":
// send it again. TODO

So it does nothing right now. Oops. Sigh.
 

5) The "Password" lacks a second box to confirm the password. Oops?

Clicking on "Accept Invitation" in the invitation email brings me to a Join Group page that asks only that I set a Password and select the Email Delivery. Does the Password need a confirmation box?

Maybe. I guess the password reset mechanism is an adequate backstop for the (hopefully rare) case of a mistyped password. After all, who doesn't use a password manager these days? It just runs counter to experience, so it seems odd.

Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't ask to verify email addresses either. A friend of mine who is in user interface thinks I'm crazy for not asking for verification. But I hate having to type everything in twice. What do you think?

I will fix the invite issues this week.


Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: trimming and e-mail

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

if I am understanding this correctly, I would not want anything deleted.  That is up to the group members if that is a rule of the group; which it is in a lot of canine/feline health groups, but isn’t in just chatty groups

Cherrill





On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:34 AM, ro-esp@... wrote:

Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email?  Is there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting ( http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
                                                groetjes, Ronaldo


locked trimming and e-mail

ro-esp
 

Hi, I'm new here.

the archive looks pretty "clean", but how does it work in email?  Is there an option to use the traditional interspersing quoting ( http://www.learn.to/quote )? Is there an autotrim-feature like on googlegroups (the only "edge" googlegroups has IMHO), that deletes everything under the last unindented line?

Are messages sorted according to subjectline? does the system assign a new thread to a message that has the subjectline changed?
                                                groetjes, Ronaldo


locked Re: Join flow

 

Hi Shal,

How about:

"To join any groups you must log in below. If you haven't already registered with Groups.io you can register now by entering your email address below and choosing a new password that you will use to log in to Groups.io."

Good suggestion. I've made the change.

 
2) Very clever that you apparently picked up my "Full name" from the Display name field of the confirmation email sent back during registration. This item started out as noticing that there was no place on the Join form to enter my screen name.

Thanks. :) Any time a message is sent to us from a user without the full name field set, we try to set it from the email.

Mark 


locked Re: questions

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

yes, thank you, this helps immensely.
now to think of a nice catchy intro to go with what we hope is a group name that will draw members.

Cherrill





On Oct 12, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi Cherrill,

We support all the options that Y! Groups supports. So, you can have multiple moderators, with varying levels of permissions. You group can be listed or unlisted in the directory. Archives can be public or restricted to members only.

Hope this helps!

Mark


On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
my co-owner and I have discussed opening a group here, but I have a few questions.

First off, I hope it is allowed to have 2 group owners.

We would like to open a group which is not private in that members have to be either added or sent an invite; but is closed so that people have to be a member to participate but can join by seeing the group name listed.  We do not want people who are members of other .io groups but not members of our group to be able to see our messages. 

I hope this makes sense, because i thought i had read something about people being able to share in interesting topics, and I am not sure I understand this concept.

thank you

Cherrill









locked Re: Business model changes

 

Hi,

A restricted group is a group where members have to be approved before they can join the group.

An integration is a connection with another service. I admit it's a nerdy word. For example, you can integrate a blog with your group through the feed integration. All new blog posts will automatically be sent to the group. You can integrate an Instagram account with your group, so that whenever a photo is posted to the Instagram account, it'll be sent to your group.

I hope this helps. If you have any suggestions for how the terminology could be changed to be more easily understood, please share.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:16 AM, <ro-esp@...> wrote:
What do you mean by "restricted groups"?

What are "integrations"?



locked Re: questions

 

Hi Bruce,

Good questions. As to whitelisting and spam, I'm been registering the Groups.io servers with the various whitelists for the major email providers. A good reputation takes time to develop, of course, but I'm doing everything I can to help that along. And part of that it reacting quickly when spam is reported.

Questions 3 and 4 are related. With groups.io, you can download your complete membership AND your complete message archive at any time. So, if groups..io does ever go away, you'll still have all that. Unfortunately, you can't do that at Yahoo or Google. (Through the Dropbox integration, you can also have all, or some, of the attachments sent through your group automatically stored in your Dropbox, as another way of archiving.)

As for longevity, I'll answer it this way. Groups.io is a passion project for me. I don't want to live in a world where Facebook groups are the main/best way to communicate in a group on-line. I believe email groups are fundamentally better for many types of communication. It's clear that groups are not a priority at either Yahoo or Google and I'm worried that email groups will disappear without a dedicated company/service providing them.

As for funding of the company, I'm committed to funding it for the foreseeable future.

The only question in my mind is whether groups.io will gain a critical mass of users (for some definition of critical). Much of that is on me, to provide a feature rich, easy to use service that people like. But it's also dependent on people liking and using the service and spreading the word.

I hope this answers your questions.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Bruce Pappas <bruce@...> wrote:
I'm also interested in moving my groups here. A few questions:
1. What will you do to keep your list addresses white-listedf?
2. What will you do when spam is reported to you?
3. What about longevity? What will you do to make sure you don't just fly the coop when you want, leaving owners high and dry?
4. Can you download a list of members and messages for archival purposes?
Thanks.
-Bruce

_______________________________________________
Bruce Colglazier Pappas
Email: bruce@...
Phone: (H) 763-377-9874 - (C) 763-229-7075 - (F) 763-377-8189
Address:  20 Ardmore Dr, Minneapolis, MN 55422-5208  USA
Website:  www.brucepappas.com
Skype: bruce.c.pappas

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
my co-owner and I have discussed opening a group here, but I have a few questions.

First off, I hope it is allowed to have 2 group owners.

We would like to open a group which is not private in that members have to be either added or sent an invite; but is closed so that people have to be a member to participate but can join by seeing the group name listed.  We do not want people who are members of other .io groups but not members of our group to be able to see our messages. 

I hope this makes sense, because i thought i had read something about people being able to share in interesting topics, and I am not sure I understand this concept.

thank you

Cherrill







locked Re: Business model changes

ro-esp
 

What do you mean by "restricted groups"?

What are "integrations"?


locked Re: questions

 

Hi Cherrill,

We support all the options that Y! Groups supports. So, you can have multiple moderators, with varying levels of permissions. You group can be listed or unlisted in the directory. Archives can be public or restricted to members only.

Hope this helps!

Mark


On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
my co-owner and I have discussed opening a group here, but I have a few questions.

First off, I hope it is allowed to have 2 group owners.

We would like to open a group which is not private in that members have to be either added or sent an invite; but is closed so that people have to be a member to participate but can join by seeing the group name listed.  We do not want people who are members of other .io groups but not members of our group to be able to see our messages. 

I hope this makes sense, because i thought i had read something about people being able to share in interesting topics, and I am not sure I understand this concept.

thank you

Cherrill






locked Re: questions

Bruce Pappas <bruce@...>
 

I'm also interested in moving my groups here. A few questions:
1. What will you do to keep your list addresses white-listedf?
2. What will you do when spam is reported to you?
3. What about longevity? What will you do to make sure you don't just fly the coop when you want, leaving owners high and dry?
4. Can you download a list of members and messages for archival purposes?
Thanks.
-Bruce

_______________________________________________
Bruce Colglazier Pappas
Email: bruce@...
Phone: (H) 763-377-9874 - (C) 763-229-7075 - (F) 763-377-8189
Address:  20 Ardmore Dr, Minneapolis, MN 55422-5208  USA
Website:  www.brucepappas.com
Skype: bruce.c.pappas

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
my co-owner and I have discussed opening a group here, but I have a few questions.

First off, I hope it is allowed to have 2 group owners.

We would like to open a group which is not private in that members have to be either added or sent an invite; but is closed so that people have to be a member to participate but can join by seeing the group name listed.  We do not want people who are members of other .io groups but not members of our group to be able to see our messages. 

I hope this makes sense, because i thought i had read something about people being able to share in interesting topics, and I am not sure I understand this concept.

thank you

Cherrill






locked questions

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

my co-owner and I have discussed opening a group here, but I have a few questions.

First off, I hope it is allowed to have 2 group owners.

We would like to open a group which is not private in that members have to be either added or sent an invite; but is closed so that people have to be a member to participate but can join by seeing the group name listed.  We do not want people who are members of other .io groups but not members of our group to be able to see our messages. 

I hope this makes sense, because i thought i had read something about people being able to share in interesting topics, and I am not sure I understand this concept.

thank you

Cherrill





locked Re: A review of Groups.io

 

Hi Mark,

I've edited the post. What I meant to say is that was that there aren't many public groups yet. So, it's not like Google Groups or Yahoo Groups or Reddit which already have functioning ecosystems.

In regards to sharing discussions, the idea was that you'd be able to share discussions from any group.

Basic version: Users see an interesting post in a public group and click share. A list of these posts appear on the user's profile. You can subscribe to these posts via RSS or email.
Advanced version: Users gain the ability to follow other users and have the posts of users they follow appear in a newsfeed.

An alternative to this would be provide an activity feed (like Reddit or Quora does). Unfortunately, a stream of all of a persons activity is much less likely to be interesting than a stream of content that they have curated personally.

This feature wouldn't provide any value now. It would only become valuable once there is a healthy ecosystem of groups.

-Chris


locked Join flow

 

Join (using an email address never before registered)

1) After Email Delivery asks for email address and password. It isn't clear whether filling in these is to login or to register.

Evidently either, at need. At least, filling it in when I had no prior registration gave me "You are now subscribed to the group. Once you reply to the confirmation email we just sent you, you will be able to participate in the group."

This phrase is awkward:

"To join any of the groups on Groups.io, you must log in, if you're already a registered Groups.io user, or register, if you're new."

How about:

"To join any groups you must log in below. If you haven't already registered with Groups.io you can register now by entering your email address below and choosing a new password that you will use to log in to Groups.io."


2) Very clever that you apparently picked up my "Full name" from the Display name field of the confirmation email sent back during registration. This item started out as noticing that there was no place on the Join form to enter my screen name.

-- Shal


locked Invite flow

 

1) The Email address box could parse these as equivalent:

Display Name <email@...>
email@...

Currently it rejects the first with
"Display Name <email@...>: Invalid email address "

Better, it could take "Display Name" as the tentative name of the member, confirmed or overridden when the member responds to the invitation.


2) The Invite Message box looks like a plain text entry box. When I put simple HTML code in it I saw the literal code, as if editing in a plain-text entry form.

However, that code controlled the formatting inside the invitation email. Apparently the handling of that text is HTML-aware in at least some sense, as the text/plain message body of the invite had the HTML tags stripped, whereas the text/HTML part retained my coding. I had expected the opposite: the text/plain would show exactly what I typed and the text/HTML would have the tags escaped so as to show as plain text.

I don't suggest that the processing be changed to match my expectation, rather add a hint somewhere to the invite form that lets the user know that (at least limited) HTML is ok in the Invite Message. Or perhaps better still, make that an HTML edit control like the Post composition window.


3) This is an edge case, but in testing I invited an address, accepted via email, then removed that new member. A second attempt to invite the address gave me the error "Already invited". Sure enough, the address still showed on the "Outstanding Invitations" tab, but if I hadn't thought to look there I wouldn't have known what to do.

I'm not sure whether there's an action item here or not. It is tempting to suggest that the member should be removed from the Outstanding Invitations list if they leave or are removed from the group. But since "Send Again" is an action in that list I don't know if that is necessary.


4) The "Send Again" item does not appear to work. It unchecked the box but gave no other indication of sending another invitation. Nor was another received. Probably related to the above edge case. The "Rescind Invitation" action removed that address from the list and allowed me to send a new invitation.


5) The "Password" lacks a second box to confirm the password. Oops?

Clicking on "Accept Invitation" in the invitation email brings me to a Join Group page that asks only that I set a Password and select the Email Delivery. Does the Password need a confirmation box?

Maybe. I guess the password reset mechanism is an adequate backstop for the (hopefully rare) case of a mistyped password. After all, who doesn't use a password manager these days? It just runs counter to experience, so it seems odd.

-- Shal


locked Re: A review of Groups.io

 

Chris,

This is fantastic, thank you so much for your review! One quick question: you mention lack of public groups as a weakness. Are you referring to groups where non-members can post to, or are you referring to something else?

I am intrigued by your idea of being able to share interesting discussions. Were you thinking that it'd be just within a group, or would this be a feed of interesting discussions taking place over many groups? 

Thanks,
Mark

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 6:14 AM, <walkraft@...> wrote:
Hi Mark, 

I really like your service, so I just wrote up a review.

https://medium.com/a-future-together/groups-io-a-modern-take-on-google-groups-83dd0a007b84

In terms of suggestions:

Discovery mechanisms are key to enabling groups to form. Featured groups could be useful during the initial growth period since searching is less likely to be useful. Tags aren’t needed right now, but they will become vital once this site reaches a certain size.

Integrations have been a huge missed opportunity for other products such as Google Groups and Facebook Groups. There are so many tools such as calendars, wikis, polls and photo albums that would benefit from being shared as a group. An API would unleash innumerable collaborative possibilities.

Google groups, Reddit and StackOverflow allow you to star messages and threads. This helps you find that perfect answer that you saw at 2am five months ago, but which you need now. 
Member profiles would bring people in a group together by allowing them to get to know each other better. It would also cut down on drama by making them feel more like real people. Furthermore, this could provide a useful discovery mechanism for finding other groups.

It’d be nice if users had a feed for sharing the most interesting discussions that they’d seen recently. This could eventually provide an even better distribution method than groups themselves.



locked A review of Groups.io

 

Hi Mark, 

I really like your service, so I just wrote up a review.

https://medium.com/a-future-together/groups-io-a-modern-take-on-google-groups-83dd0a007b84

In terms of suggestions:

Discovery mechanisms are key to enabling groups to form. Featured groups could be useful during the initial growth period since searching is less likely to be useful. Tags aren’t needed right now, but they will become vital once this site reaches a certain size.

Integrations have been a huge missed opportunity for other products such as Google Groups and Facebook Groups. There are so many tools such as calendars, wikis, polls and photo albums that would benefit from being shared as a group. An API would unleash innumerable collaborative possibilities.

Google groups, Reddit and StackOverflow allow you to star messages and threads. This helps you find that perfect answer that you saw at 2am five months ago, but which you need now. 
Member profiles would bring people in a group together by allowing them to get to know each other better. It would also cut down on drama by making them feel more like real people. Furthermore, this could provide a useful discovery mechanism for finding other groups.

It’d be nice if users had a feed for sharing the most interesting discussions that they’d seen recently. This could eventually provide an even better distribution method than groups themselves.