Date   

locked Re: "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

 

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> What about instead of having to edit an email address when you reply,
> just reply with the one word:
>
> like

That'd work too.


Of course, this could be expanded to support any one word reply. But that could be crazy.


Mark 


locked Re: Message threads versus topics

Laurence Taylor
 

On 17/11/2014 18:28, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message presentation
view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things, for example.

Is there much demand for a view like this?
I don't like the multiple-indent style, I find it dificult to read. In
my view, messags shoild be shown - or should be able to be shown - in
strict chronological order. Otherwise you get, as you do with Reddit
&c., a string of old messages with a new one in the middle.


--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Re: "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

 

like

On 18 November 2014 08:44, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> What about instead of having to edit an email address when you reply,
> just reply with the one word:
>
> like

That'd work too.

As long as the matching is permissive enough to allow for extraneous whitespace, perhaps punctuation, quoted original message, HTML decoration and other typical debris. But not so permissive as to accidentally suck up a message that has the word in it.

-- Shal



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locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

Chris,

It may be worth checking out how Discourse handles replies.
Interesting. I was thinking of something like that too.

Another visual way to accomplish that is to have the "In-Reply-To" link collapse the intervening messages to a horizontal rule that allows one to re-expand them. Likewise the "Replies" button, leaving only the direct replies expanded below the message.

Not sure what to do if one happens to have the date sort reversed. But maybe exactly the same thing, just that the In-Reply-To would be below and the direct replies above.

-- Shal


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Mark,

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group),
must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made
the change)
Yes please.

- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group
I don't know if this one is just an overreaction or not. I don't like the idea of "taking my marbles and going home", but I don't relish the idea of getting into an edit tug-of-war with an unreasonable or vindictive moderator either. Unthinkable, while Groups.io is this close-knit community of reasonable people. But if you succeed in scaling it up then some of us are going to encounter all kinds.

Maybe there's a better way to handle the tug-of-war problem, I'm open to other ideas.

-- Shal


locked Re: What is Facebook 2 (was Calendar is live)

 

Mark,

Many of us were more comfortable with a Reply interface that more
closely resembled an email message composition window after clicking
"Reply".
Not sure I understand. Click Reply and have it refresh to a new window
instead of opening up inline?
It wasn't so much about refreshing the page (an artifact of how classic groups was built) as about the evident capabilities. Both in terms of editing the body and controlling header fields.

Some of the redesigns presented little more than a postage-stamp text box in which to type your reply. Too reminiscent of Facebook's "Write a comment..." box, and implying too much that a reply should be minimal and without context (quoted original).

In the Neo re-design of Yahoo Groups it took forever to get them to open a decent size edit box, and to show the formatting toolbar - they initially hid it behind a button one had to click to add formatting. Even now the To and From fields are hidden behind an "Expand header" button.

In that regard Neo now has a few legs up on Groups.io - your Group Reply button offers no ability for a moderator to send the reply "From" the +owner address, nor to direct a reply to the member or to +owner rather than the group. Nor to change the Subject.

-- Shal


locked Re: Bug in message formatting - strikethrough doesn't "stick".

 

Mark,

The issue was with what CSS we allow when displaying messages in the archive.
...
There are multiple ways to generate strikethrough (it's unclear to me
which is best).
Ah, no wonder it didn't make sense to me (not much CSS experience).

We have to 'cook' any HTML messages before displaying them, to ensure
that no malicious stuff is presented (javascript pointing to malware,
for example). We're very conservative with what CSS is displayed.
Thank goodness.

Yahoo used to publish in a help page the whitelist of HTML tags that it would allow in Group descriptions and messages. It applied that whitelist even to message bodies passed through as individual messages. They took down that help page a few years ago and replaced it with "try it and see, you're on your own if it doesn't work".

-- Shal


locked Re: "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

 

Mark,

What about instead of having to edit an email address when you reply,
just reply with the one word:

like
That'd work too.

As long as the matching is permissive enough to allow for extraneous whitespace, perhaps punctuation, quoted original message, HTML decoration and other typical debris. But not so permissive as to accidentally suck up a message that has the word in it.

-- Shal


 

Updates to the site today:

- Fix for pagination and sorting in direct add for subgroups
- Allowing CSS text-decoration in archive display
- Don't bounce messages missing both To and CC
- Activity log fix and better logging of calendar events


Mark


locked Re: Attachments

 

Mark,

My concern with this comes back to abuse. I don't want groups.io
<http://groups.io> to become an image serving company.
Or general file serving. I understand that concern, and realize that abuse detection and mitigation impacts what's feasible.

I would want to come up with a system to throttle image serving in
case a URL gets out in the wild and becomes popular.. I can do it,
but it'll be some work and I'm not sure about where this would rank
in terms of priorities.
Maybe "trust but verify" first. That is, come up with a way to measure and report the usage in a way that would alert you to abuse. Then figure out how to throttle it if and when the alarm goes off. Then you'd be able to see the use and abuse patterns before deciding on a mechanism. Of course, that assumes that the onset of trouble is mild rather than DOS-inducing.

-- Shal


locked Re: Editing messages

Linda
 

Thanks Mark - that's even better (being able to grant the privilege selectively).  Linda

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...

That's how it works right now. There's an Edit Archives permission for moderators, and the original poster can also edit/delete their own message.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

 

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...

That's how it works right now. There's an Edit Archives permission for moderators, and the original poster can also edit/delete their own message.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...
Thanks,
Linda
 

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

Ok, it's clear that I need to add functionality around editing archived messages. Here's what's been asked for:

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group), must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made the change)
- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group

Am I missing anything? I'll need to ponder how best to do some of this.

Thanks,
Mark


On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would
> require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's
> important.

Yes I do.

So at least if a moderator comes along and changes my words at least there's evidence for other members to see that I may not have written that stupid (or TOS-violating) thing that is now in my message.

Is there planned to be a one-button "delete all my messages in this group" ability? With moderators able to edit my words I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe leaving any behind. But at least having them marked as to who edited the message will afford me some ability to credibly disavow the message.

-- Shal



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locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

It may be worth checking out how Discourse handles replies. Discourse lists all messages linearly, but adds indicators to let you know which message a message is a reply to and also allows you to open a list of replies inline: http://www.discourse.org/. You can see this in the third image down the page.


locked Re: Editing messages

 

"On an edit, the message gets resent to the group" - if this is the case, then there should be a prominent message telling people that their edit will cause another message to be sent

On 18 November 2014 10:34, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group



locked Re: Attachments

 

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

> It's easy enough to include links back to the website to view the
> attachments, and that's on the todo list.

Is it feasible to make those links work, regardless of whether the user is signed in? That's valuable for email-only members.

Everything's feasible in the exciting world of computer science! :)

My concern with this comes back to abuse. I don't want groups.io to become an image serving company. I would want to come up with a system to throttle image serving in case a URL gets out in the wild and becomes popular.. I can do it, but it'll be some work and I'm not sure about where this would rank in terms of priorities.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Ok, it's clear that I need to add functionality around editing archived messages. Here's what's been asked for:

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group), must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made the change)
- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group

Am I missing anything? I'll need to ponder how best to do some of this.

Thanks,
Mark


On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would
> require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's
> important.

Yes I do.

So at least if a moderator comes along and changes my words at least there's evidence for other members to see that I may not have written that stupid (or TOS-violating) thing that is now in my message.

Is there planned to be a one-button "delete all my messages in this group" ability? With moderators able to edit my words I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe leaving any behind. But at least having them marked as to who edited the message will afford me some ability to credibly disavow the message.

-- Shal



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locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

I think the first priority is to have the original message included in the reply, like a proper email client, so that people can reply in-line. I will bump that up in the todo list.

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:46 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

Mark, I reply at the top of a message and if the message has a lot of questions, I do my reply below each question in BOLD.  Is there a way that the various reply options could be offered and the member can decide what they like best? 

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 1:29 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Message threads versus topics

 

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things, for example.

 

Is there much demand for a view like this?

 

We do have an expanded view, which displays messages in pure date order. It's not currently accessible anywhere, except by appending ?expanded=1 to a messages link, like:

 

 

If people like that view, I could add a toggle in the messages view.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).

Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View" as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the existing date sort options).

-- Shal



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locked Re: Attachments

 

Mark,

It's easy enough to include links back to the website to view the
attachments, and that's on the todo list.
Is it feasible to make those links work, regardless of whether the user is signed in? That's valuable for email-only members.

The only "trick" to this I'm aware of is to include a randomly generated value in the URL so that having one such link in hand doesn't allow one to discover others.

-- Shal


locked Re: Bug in the Moderator Activity log

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Oops:

The log for my shalstest group has a couple entries from today stating:
"Shal Farley changed Shal's 'From' name's moderator privileges via web"
but in fact what I changed was that other me's Email Delivery setting. That other me has "Owner" role, so I don't even have the option to change its moderator privileges.

That should be fixed now.

 
But thank you, by the way, for making the names in that log be links to the membership record. Likewise the Subject lines of messages in the Messages and Member Activity logs. Very nice. Events likewise please?

You're welcome, and logging of calendar events is much better now, including clickable calendar events (but only for newly created activity log events, everything before a couple minutes ago didn't have the data logged for that).

Thanks,
Mark