Date   

locked Re: Editing messages

Linda
 

Thanks Mark - that's even better (being able to grant the privilege selectively).  Linda

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...

That's how it works right now. There's an Edit Archives permission for moderators, and the original poster can also edit/delete their own message.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

 

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...

That's how it works right now. There's an Edit Archives permission for moderators, and the original poster can also edit/delete their own message.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...
Thanks,
Linda
 

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

Ok, it's clear that I need to add functionality around editing archived messages. Here's what's been asked for:

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group), must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made the change)
- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group

Am I missing anything? I'll need to ponder how best to do some of this.

Thanks,
Mark


On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would
> require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's
> important.

Yes I do.

So at least if a moderator comes along and changes my words at least there's evidence for other members to see that I may not have written that stupid (or TOS-violating) thing that is now in my message.

Is there planned to be a one-button "delete all my messages in this group" ability? With moderators able to edit my words I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe leaving any behind. But at least having them marked as to who edited the message will afford me some ability to credibly disavow the message.

-- Shal



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.



locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

It may be worth checking out how Discourse handles replies. Discourse lists all messages linearly, but adds indicators to let you know which message a message is a reply to and also allows you to open a list of replies inline: http://www.discourse.org/. You can see this in the third image down the page.


locked Re: Editing messages

 

"On an edit, the message gets resent to the group" - if this is the case, then there should be a prominent message telling people that their edit will cause another message to be sent

On 18 November 2014 10:34, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group



locked Re: Attachments

 

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

> It's easy enough to include links back to the website to view the
> attachments, and that's on the todo list.

Is it feasible to make those links work, regardless of whether the user is signed in? That's valuable for email-only members.

Everything's feasible in the exciting world of computer science! :)

My concern with this comes back to abuse. I don't want groups.io to become an image serving company. I would want to come up with a system to throttle image serving in case a URL gets out in the wild and becomes popular.. I can do it, but it'll be some work and I'm not sure about where this would rank in terms of priorities.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Editing messages

 

Ok, it's clear that I need to add functionality around editing archived messages. Here's what's been asked for:

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group), must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made the change)
- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group

Am I missing anything? I'll need to ponder how best to do some of this.

Thanks,
Mark


On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would
> require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's
> important.

Yes I do.

So at least if a moderator comes along and changes my words at least there's evidence for other members to see that I may not have written that stupid (or TOS-violating) thing that is now in my message.

Is there planned to be a one-button "delete all my messages in this group" ability? With moderators able to edit my words I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe leaving any behind. But at least having them marked as to who edited the message will afford me some ability to credibly disavow the message.

-- Shal



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

Mute This Thread: https://groups.io/mt/8652?uid=3
Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/editsub?uid=3
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/leave
Group Home: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta
Contact Group Owner: beta+owner@groups.io
Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

I think the first priority is to have the original message included in the reply, like a proper email client, so that people can reply in-line. I will bump that up in the todo list.

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:46 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

Mark, I reply at the top of a message and if the message has a lot of questions, I do my reply below each question in BOLD.  Is there a way that the various reply options could be offered and the member can decide what they like best? 

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 1:29 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Message threads versus topics

 

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things, for example.

 

Is there much demand for a view like this?

 

We do have an expanded view, which displays messages in pure date order. It's not currently accessible anywhere, except by appending ?expanded=1 to a messages link, like:

 

 

If people like that view, I could add a toggle in the messages view.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).

Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View" as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the existing date sort options).

-- Shal



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

Mute This Thread: https://groups.io/mt/9671?uid=3
Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/editsub?uid=3
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/leave
Group Home: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta
Contact Group Owner: beta+owner@groups.io
Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 



locked Re: Attachments

 

Mark,

It's easy enough to include links back to the website to view the
attachments, and that's on the todo list.
Is it feasible to make those links work, regardless of whether the user is signed in? That's valuable for email-only members.

The only "trick" to this I'm aware of is to include a randomly generated value in the URL so that having one such link in hand doesn't allow one to discover others.

-- Shal


locked Re: Bug in the Moderator Activity log

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Oops:

The log for my shalstest group has a couple entries from today stating:
"Shal Farley changed Shal's 'From' name's moderator privileges via web"
but in fact what I changed was that other me's Email Delivery setting. That other me has "Owner" role, so I don't even have the option to change its moderator privileges.

That should be fixed now.

 
But thank you, by the way, for making the names in that log be links to the membership record. Likewise the Subject lines of messages in the Messages and Member Activity logs. Very nice. Events likewise please?

You're welcome, and logging of calendar events is much better now, including clickable calendar events (but only for newly created activity log events, everything before a couple minutes ago didn't have the data logged for that).

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Message threads versus topics

Judy F.
 

Mark, I reply at the top of a message and if the message has a lot of questions, I do my reply below each question in BOLD.  Is there a way that the various reply options could be offered and the member can decide what they like best? 

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 1:29 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Message threads versus topics

 

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things, for example.

 

Is there much demand for a view like this?

 

We do have an expanded view, which displays messages in pure date order. It's not currently accessible anywhere, except by appending ?expanded=1 to a messages link, like:

 

 

If people like that view, I could add a toggle in the messages view.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).

Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View" as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the existing date sort options).

-- Shal



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

Mute This Thread: https://groups.io/mt/9671?uid=3
Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/editsub?uid=3
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/leave
Group Home: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta
Contact Group Owner: beta+owner@groups.io
Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 


locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

Mark,

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message
presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things,
for example.
I don't use Reddit, but in any case I wouldn't want this as my only view - date sorted is more often useful. But some times I really need to be able see the proper context for a reply. It can help a lot when the person forgot to quote anything.

At the moment I resort to searching for the In-Reply-To value among the Message-ID values in my email folder - which is really clumsy. Only lucky that my email client lets me search among the message headers.

Maybe here in the 21st century there's a better way to visualize this than as an indented hierarchy view. Without getting too cutesy. Something like Fossil's timeline view (directed lines drawn beside the chronological list) for example might be overboard.
http://fossil-scm.org/xfer/timeline

-- Shal


locked Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) / Mark / bcc

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

I use bcc a lot so that I can send the same message to several different places or different people; 
I believe I have seen the ‘undisclosed recipients’ on my other groups.   I do that so I don’t put other peoples or other groups emails out to any other people. 
Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Ok, I understand now. You sent a message just using BCC, with no To or CC fields. Your email program doesn't insert a To header in that case. Other email programs, like Gmail, will add a To header like 'To: undisclosed-recipients;'.

As a simple anti-spam check, we check to see that a message contains at least one To or CC header, because some spam are missing those fields. I guess I need to remove that check.

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
I just tried a test message to both groups via bcc and this is the messsage I just got back.

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



Begin forwarded message:

Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:03 AM MST
From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@...>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

The following message to <coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email'
Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp-out-01.shaw.ca

Final-Recipient: rfc822;coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [66.175.222.12]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email' (delivery attempts: 0)

From: Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:02 AM MST
Subject: testing


just a test message

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"











locked Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) / Mark / bcc

 

Ok, I understand now. You sent a message just using BCC, with no To or CC fields. Your email program doesn't insert a To header in that case. Other email programs, like Gmail, will add a To header like 'To: undisclosed-recipients;'.

As a simple anti-spam check, we check to see that a message contains at least one To or CC header, because some spam are missing those fields. I guess I need to remove that check.

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
I just tried a test message to both groups via bcc and this is the messsage I just got back.

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



Begin forwarded message:

Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:03 AM MST
From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@...>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

The following message to <coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email'
Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp-out-01.shaw.ca

Final-Recipient: rfc822;coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [66.175.222.12]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email' (delivery attempts: 0)

From: Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:02 AM MST
Subject: testing


just a test message

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"








locked Delivery Status Notification (Failure) / Mark / bcc

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

I just tried a test message to both groups via bcc and this is the messsage I just got back.

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



Begin forwarded message:

Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:03 AM MST
From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@...>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

The following message to <coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email'
Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp-out-01.shaw.ca

Final-Recipient: rfc822;coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [66.175.222.12]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email' (delivery attempts: 0)

From: Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:02 AM MST
Subject: testing


just a test message

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"







locked Re: What is Facebook 2 (was Calendar is live)

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

The other factor that was considered Facebook-like was opening up a reply inline with the message, and not providing for a quote of the original message (marked with the standard plain-text > indentation) in the edit box for the reply. This, alas, is replicated in Groups.io, leaving those who read by email in the dark for context. It also makes it difficult for me to practice my preferred style of interspersed quote and reply when addressing a longer message, or any message with more than one point.

Yeah, that's a missing feature. It's on the todo list.

 
Many of us were more comfortable with a Reply interface that more closely resembled an email message composition window after clicking "Reply".

Not sure I understand. Click Reply and have it refresh to a new window instead of opening up inline?

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Attachments

 

It's easy enough to include links back to the website to view the attachments, and that's on the todo list. 

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 9:37 AM, Laurence Taylor <g7mzh@...> wrote:
On 16/11/2014 01:27, Shal Farley wrote:

> The key advantage is that allows members who read the group's archive
> or digest (rather than individual messages) to have access to the
> attachments.

Would it be possible to have an option to include attachments in a
digest? Another (now defunct) list operator used to do this, but I think
if it is to be done it should be an option for the subscriber.

There are groups where I take the digest because I am interested in the
conversations but not in the attachments.

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

Mute This Thread: https://groups.io/mt/9491?uid=3
Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/editsub?uid=3
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/leave
Group Home: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta
Contact Group Owner: beta+owner@groups.io
Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things, for example.

Is there much demand for a view like this?

We do have an expanded view, which displays messages in pure date order. It's not currently accessible anywhere, except by appending ?expanded=1 to a messages link, like:


If people like that view, I could add a toggle in the messages view.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).

Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View" as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the existing date sort options).

-- Shal



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

Mute This Thread: https://groups.io/mt/9671?uid=3
Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/editsub?uid=3
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/leave
Group Home: https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta
Contact Group Owner: beta+owner@groups.io
Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



locked Re: Bug in message formatting - strikethrough doesn't "stick".

 

Shal,

The issue was with what CSS we allow when displaying messages in the archive. We have to 'cook' any HTML messages before displaying them, to ensure that no malicious stuff is presented (javascript pointing to malware, for example). We're very conservative with what CSS is displayed. The HTML widget on the site generates strikethrough using the text-decoration CSS tag, which we were not permitting. I've whitelisted it, and now strikethrough should display.

There are multiple ways to generate strikethrough (it's unclear to me which is best). Your email client probably generated strikethrough using an HTML tag, which we support.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
I wrote:

The strikethrough font attribute doesn't appear to save when editing a message. Bold and color do.

Oh, it doesn't post when creating a new message either.

I take that back. The strikethrough came through in the email, so it must be just a display problem in the archive.

Nope, not as simple as that either. Strikethrough shows in the archive for my message in this (beta) group, which was posted by email. But not in the archive of a message in my test group posted via the group. But it did come through in the email of that same message.

-- Shal



locked Re: questionbcc

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

Both my message and my co-owners message were sent on Saturday, but I don’t remember what time.
My co-owners message was a picture which shows on our home page because I re-sent it for her on Sunday.  They both were sent bcc to coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io  as well as our yahoo group.  Both got to the yahoo group but we got notification that both were rejected by .io.  

thank you
Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



On Nov 17, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi Cherrill,

I couldn't think of any reason why a message BCCed to a group on Groups.io wouldn't work, and I just tested it with a message to one of my groups, and it worked fine. If you send me the time you sent the message and the name of the group you sent it to, I can look through the logs and tell you why it was rejected (the reason should also be listed in the activity log for your group).

Mark

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
 
 
One of my members and I each attempted to send an email via bcc. to our group here at groups.io and our group at yahoo groups.
The one which went to groups.io was rejected for both of us.  So both of us then sent them individually to groups.io and they were accepted. 
 
Is this something which isn't allowed by groups.io to receive an email from the bcc. line ???
 
Thank you
 
Cherrill