Date   

locked Re: Bug in the Moderator Activity log

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Oops:

The log for my shalstest group has a couple entries from today stating:
"Shal Farley changed Shal's 'From' name's moderator privileges via web"
but in fact what I changed was that other me's Email Delivery setting. That other me has "Owner" role, so I don't even have the option to change its moderator privileges.

That should be fixed now.

 
But thank you, by the way, for making the names in that log be links to the membership record. Likewise the Subject lines of messages in the Messages and Member Activity logs. Very nice. Events likewise please?

You're welcome, and logging of calendar events is much better now, including clickable calendar events (but only for newly created activity log events, everything before a couple minutes ago didn't have the data logged for that).

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Message threads versus topics

Judy F.
 

Mark, I reply at the top of a message and if the message has a lot of questions, I do my reply below each question in BOLD.  Is there a way that the various reply options could be offered and the member can decide what they like best? 

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 1:29 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Message threads versus topics

 

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things, for example.

 

Is there much demand for a view like this?

 

We do have an expanded view, which displays messages in pure date order. It's not currently accessible anywhere, except by appending ?expanded=1 to a messages link, like:

 

 

If people like that view, I could add a toggle in the messages view.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).

Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View" as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the existing date sort options).

-- Shal



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locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

Mark,

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message
presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things,
for example.
I don't use Reddit, but in any case I wouldn't want this as my only view - date sorted is more often useful. But some times I really need to be able see the proper context for a reply. It can help a lot when the person forgot to quote anything.

At the moment I resort to searching for the In-Reply-To value among the Message-ID values in my email folder - which is really clumsy. Only lucky that my email client lets me search among the message headers.

Maybe here in the 21st century there's a better way to visualize this than as an indented hierarchy view. Without getting too cutesy. Something like Fossil's timeline view (directed lines drawn beside the chronological list) for example might be overboard.
http://fossil-scm.org/xfer/timeline

-- Shal


locked Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) / Mark / bcc

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

I use bcc a lot so that I can send the same message to several different places or different people; 
I believe I have seen the ‘undisclosed recipients’ on my other groups.   I do that so I don’t put other peoples or other groups emails out to any other people. 
Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Ok, I understand now. You sent a message just using BCC, with no To or CC fields. Your email program doesn't insert a To header in that case. Other email programs, like Gmail, will add a To header like 'To: undisclosed-recipients;'.

As a simple anti-spam check, we check to see that a message contains at least one To or CC header, because some spam are missing those fields. I guess I need to remove that check.

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
I just tried a test message to both groups via bcc and this is the messsage I just got back.

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



Begin forwarded message:

Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:03 AM MST
From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@...>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

The following message to <coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email'
Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp-out-01.shaw.ca

Final-Recipient: rfc822;coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [66.175.222.12]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email' (delivery attempts: 0)

From: Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:02 AM MST
Subject: testing


just a test message

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"











locked Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) / Mark / bcc

 

Ok, I understand now. You sent a message just using BCC, with no To or CC fields. Your email program doesn't insert a To header in that case. Other email programs, like Gmail, will add a To header like 'To: undisclosed-recipients;'.

As a simple anti-spam check, we check to see that a message contains at least one To or CC header, because some spam are missing those fields. I guess I need to remove that check.

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
I just tried a test message to both groups via bcc and this is the messsage I just got back.

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



Begin forwarded message:

Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:03 AM MST
From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@...>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

The following message to <coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email'
Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp-out-01.shaw.ca

Final-Recipient: rfc822;coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [66.175.222.12]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email' (delivery attempts: 0)

From: Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:02 AM MST
Subject: testing


just a test message

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"








locked Delivery Status Notification (Failure) / Mark / bcc

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

I just tried a test message to both groups via bcc and this is the messsage I just got back.

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



Begin forwarded message:

Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:03 AM MST
From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@...>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

The following message to <coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email'
Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp-out-01.shaw.ca

Final-Recipient: rfc822;coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [66.175.222.12]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 500-'Error: malformed email' (delivery attempts: 0)

From: Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
Date: November 17, 2014 at 11:37:02 AM MST
Subject: testing


just a test message

Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"







locked Re: What is Facebook 2 (was Calendar is live)

 

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

The other factor that was considered Facebook-like was opening up a reply inline with the message, and not providing for a quote of the original message (marked with the standard plain-text > indentation) in the edit box for the reply. This, alas, is replicated in Groups.io, leaving those who read by email in the dark for context. It also makes it difficult for me to practice my preferred style of interspersed quote and reply when addressing a longer message, or any message with more than one point.

Yeah, that's a missing feature. It's on the todo list.

 
Many of us were more comfortable with a Reply interface that more closely resembled an email message composition window after clicking "Reply".

Not sure I understand. Click Reply and have it refresh to a new window instead of opening up inline?

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Attachments

 

It's easy enough to include links back to the website to view the attachments, and that's on the todo list. 

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 9:37 AM, Laurence Taylor <g7mzh@...> wrote:
On 16/11/2014 01:27, Shal Farley wrote:

> The key advantage is that allows members who read the group's archive
> or digest (rather than individual messages) to have access to the
> attachments.

Would it be possible to have an option to include attachments in a
digest? Another (now defunct) list operator used to do this, but I think
if it is to be done it should be an option for the subscriber.

There are groups where I take the digest because I am interested in the
conversations but not in the attachments.

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


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locked Re: Message threads versus topics

 

Hmm. I fall into the camp that dislikes the staggered message presentation view like this. I really dislike how Reddit does things, for example.

Is there much demand for a view like this?

We do have an expanded view, which displays messages in pure date order. It's not currently accessible anywhere, except by appending ?expanded=1 to a messages link, like:


If people like that view, I could add a toggle in the messages view.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).

Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View" as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the existing date sort options).

-- Shal



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locked Re: Bug in message formatting - strikethrough doesn't "stick".

 

Shal,

The issue was with what CSS we allow when displaying messages in the archive. We have to 'cook' any HTML messages before displaying them, to ensure that no malicious stuff is presented (javascript pointing to malware, for example). We're very conservative with what CSS is displayed. The HTML widget on the site generates strikethrough using the text-decoration CSS tag, which we were not permitting. I've whitelisted it, and now strikethrough should display.

There are multiple ways to generate strikethrough (it's unclear to me which is best). Your email client probably generated strikethrough using an HTML tag, which we support.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
I wrote:

The strikethrough font attribute doesn't appear to save when editing a message. Bold and color do.

Oh, it doesn't post when creating a new message either.

I take that back. The strikethrough came through in the email, so it must be just a display problem in the archive.

Nope, not as simple as that either. Strikethrough shows in the archive for my message in this (beta) group, which was posted by email. But not in the archive of a message in my test group posted via the group. But it did come through in the email of that same message.

-- Shal



locked Re: questionbcc

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

Both my message and my co-owners message were sent on Saturday, but I don’t remember what time.
My co-owners message was a picture which shows on our home page because I re-sent it for her on Sunday.  They both were sent bcc to coffeechocolatechitchat@groups.io  as well as our yahoo group.  Both got to the yahoo group but we got notification that both were rejected by .io.  

thank you
Cherrill
"the most important thing in life is to learn how to give out love and to let it come in"



On Nov 17, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi Cherrill,

I couldn't think of any reason why a message BCCed to a group on Groups.io wouldn't work, and I just tested it with a message to one of my groups, and it worked fine. If you send me the time you sent the message and the name of the group you sent it to, I can look through the logs and tell you why it was rejected (the reason should also be listed in the activity log for your group).

Mark

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
 
 
One of my members and I each attempted to send an email via bcc. to our group here at groups.io and our group at yahoo groups.
The one which went to groups.io was rejected for both of us.  So both of us then sent them individually to groups.io and they were accepted. 
 
Is this something which isn't allowed by groups.io to receive an email from the bcc. line ???
 
Thank you
 
Cherrill
 
 





locked Re: Attachments

Laurence Taylor
 

On 16/11/2014 01:27, Shal Farley wrote:

The key advantage is that allows members who read the group's archive
or digest (rather than individual messages) to have access to the
attachments.
Would it be possible to have an option to include attachments in a
digest? Another (now defunct) list operator used to do this, but I think
if it is to be done it should be an option for the subscriber.

There are groups where I take the digest because I am interested in the
conversations but not in the attachments.

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Was away this weekend

 

I was away from the computer for most the weekend. I'm back now and will be going through the backlog of beta messages (and support emails) this morning.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: questionbcc

 

Hi Cherrill,

I couldn't think of any reason why a message BCCed to a group on Groups.io wouldn't work, and I just tested it with a message to one of my groups, and it worked fine. If you send me the time you sent the message and the name of the group you sent it to, I can look through the logs and tell you why it was rejected (the reason should also be listed in the activity log for your group).

Mark

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
 
 
One of my members and I each attempted to send an email via bcc. to our group here at groups.io and our group at yahoo groups.
The one which went to groups.io was rejected for both of us.  So both of us then sent them individually to groups.io and they were accepted. 
 
Is this something which isn't allowed by groups.io to receive an email from the bcc. line ???
 
Thank you
 
Cherrill
 
 



locked Re: Message threads versus topics

Judy F.
 

Thank you Shal for both explanations.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Shal Farley [mailto:shal@roadrunner.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 11:02 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Message threads versus topics

Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm
reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and
not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).


Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm
making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no
indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups
provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries
below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top
of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in
Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View"
as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the
existing date sort options).

-- Shal


locked Message threads versus topics

 

Mark,

Looking at the screen shots (for my other reply about Facebook 2) I'm reminded of another feature of classic groups that has been lost in Neo, and not restored by Groups.io: true message threads (as opposed to mere topics).

Groups.io provides a "topic" view, not a "thread" view. The distinction I'm making is that messages in the topic are shown in pure date order, with no indication of which message each may have been in reply to. Classic groups provided a threaded view by way of a hierarchical list of message summaries below each opened message:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705
(note the blue background highlighting the message currently open at the top of the page).

I don't think I would advocate copying that particular implementation in Groups.io; likely it would be more sensible to provide a true "Thread View" as an alternate sort option for an open message topic/thread (versus the existing date sort options).

-- Shal


locked What is Facebook 2 (was Calendar is live)

 

Mark,

When you say that Groups.io not be turned into Facebook 2, I'm not sure
I understand. Is that because you don't think there should be likes, or
is it something more?
One of the consistent complaints in the Yahoo Groups community about "becoming Facebook" had to do with the style of presenting messages, and authoring replies.

In classic Yahoo Groups the message list had three views available to the user:

"Simple", which showed just the subject, author and date:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130300773/in/set-72157636272401705

"Summaries", which added a summary of the content (much as Groups.io's Thread and Message View of the Archives):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130179514/in/set-72157636272401705

"Expanded", which showed the whole message bodies:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130171945/in/set-72157636272401705

If I recall correctly one of the short-lived redesigns copied Facebook even to the extent of displaying the message archive as a list of topics, with the replies inline under the topic, much as a Facebook status update and its comments.


The other factor that was considered Facebook-like was opening up a reply inline with the message, and not providing for a quote of the original message (marked with the standard plain-text > indentation) in the edit box for the reply. This, alas, is replicated in Groups.io, leaving those who read by email in the dark for context. It also makes it difficult for me to practice my preferred style of interspersed quote and reply when addressing a longer message, or any message with more than one point.

Many of us were more comfortable with a Reply interface that more closely resembled an email message composition window after clicking "Reply".

-- Shal
(Classic Yahoo Groups's web UI could be modelled, in many ways, as simply a group-enhanced webmail MUA.)


locked Re: questionbcc

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

could someone reply to my message with regard to bcc.

thank you

Cherrill


locked Re: Bug in message formatting - strikethrough doesn't "stick".

 

Jim,

Would strike-through come through anyway in plain text, which is how I
and many others always read email?
Not if you have your email client or service set to show you the text/plain part of a multipart message. My own preference for plain text notwithstanding, I think you "and many others" are a vanishingly small minority, getting smaller all the time.

If it's showing something significant about the edit, another way of
doing it might be more appropriate.
Arguably true of Bold or any other text formatting as well. But that wasn't the point - this was a bug report not a comment on preferred practice.

-- Shal


locked Re: Bug in message formatting - strikethrough doesn't "stick".

 

Would strike-through come through anyway in plain text, which is how I and many
others always read email? If it's showing something significant about the edit,
another way of doing it might be more appropriate.

Jim Fisher

On 16 Nov 2014 at 1:46, Shal Farley wrote:

I wrote:

The strikethrough font attribute doesn't appear to save when editing a message.
Bold and color do.

Oh, it doesn't post when creating a new message either.
I take that back. The strikethrough came through in the email, so it must be
just a display problem in the archive.

Nope, not as simple as that either. Strikethrough shows in the archive for my
message in this (beta) group, which was posted by email. But not in the archive
of a message in my test group posted via the group. But it did come through in
the email of that same message.

-- Shal


--
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