Date   

moderated Re: Moderation improvements #update

Steve Hayes
 

On 22 Apr 2022 at 15:17, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I spent most of this week working on adding the ability to moderate a
bunch more things, including adding/editing calendar events, files,
photos, wiki, etc. It's a lot of tricky work and won't be ready for a few more
weeks, if I'm lucky, but I wanted to start a discussion about what kind of
moderation controls should be added for this. How fine grain of control do you
want for this? One possible aspect of this would be that each feature would
have a moderation toggle for the entire group. But I can see things getting
immensely complicated if we have separate per-member moderation overrides for
each individual feature, for example.
For the groups I run, coarse-grained moderation would be adequate.




--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: shayes@...
Blog: https://methodius.blogspot.com/
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
Fax: 086-548-2525


moderated Re: Posting a message "from" the group owner address doesn't post as from the group owner address #bug

 

Chris, I have not had time to retest this but I absolutely, distinctly remember that the display name is at least included in the From address. That makes the feature virtually useless for Send Message.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Posting a message "from" the group owner address doesn't post as from the group owner address #bug

Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 10:19 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Messages sent by the +owner address were being emailed with the correct From address. They were not being displayed on the website correctly, however, as you've noticed. I've fixed that.
Mark; I've just done a test elsewhere and can confirm that the web UI display is now correct; much better!

However, I would argue that the format of the emailed post is still at best "unclear", as it is still personal Display Name + "owner" email address. As you have changed the web UI format is it not possible to change the email "From" line to be <Group Moderator> <Group Owner email address>? That would then be consistent between web UI and email appearance; at the moment it is somewhat inconsistent and thus potentially confusing for members.

Chris


moderated Moderation improvements #update

 

Hi All,

I spent most of this week working on adding the ability to moderate a bunch more things, including adding/editing calendar events, files, photos, wiki, etc. It's a lot of tricky work and won't be ready for a few more weeks, if I'm lucky, but I wanted to start a discussion about what kind of moderation controls should be added for this. How fine grain of control do you want for this? One possible aspect of this would be that each feature would have a moderation toggle for the entire group. But I can see things getting immensely complicated if we have separate per-member moderation overrides for each individual feature, for example.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

Another thing to consider: when searching, I first tried the Moderator Activity dropdown. Not finding it there, I next tried Message Activity dropdown. Not there, either. Turns out it's in the Member Activity dropdown. That's the last place I would (and did) look for it. What about changing it to "message edited" and moving it to the Message dropdown?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 2:31 PM Janet_Catlady <JanetOliviaCatlady@...> wrote:

In other words, you see "edited message" when reading the log entry, and after that you see the object of the action (the message), and so would not normally read further. At least, I wouldn't. :-)

Yep, definitely confusing. I've combined both sets of activity log entries into `Edited Message`.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Posting a message "from" the group owner address doesn't post as from the group owner address #bug

 

Hi All,

I forgot to mention that this fix only applies to new messages. Old messages will still be displayed incorrectly on the website.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

Here's the main reason I wasn't finding the "without sending to the group" search criterion: i was not looking for it. The log entry looks like this:

Janet_Catlady <JanetOliviaCatlady@...> edited message #34993, "Oncologists" who are not board-certified oncologists - how should they be referred to here? without sending to the group, via web

In other words, you see "edited message" when reading the log entry, and after that you see the object of the action (the message), and so would not normally read further. At least, I wouldn't. :-)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Posting a message "from" the group owner address doesn't post as from the group owner address #bug

 

Hi All,

Messages sent by the +owner address were being emailed with the correct From address. They were not being displayed on the website correctly, however, as you've noticed. I've fixed that.

I do not do any sort of user interface A/B testing. Everybody gets the exact same web site. The only testing I've done is through the use of the /settest URLs which I think I've posted about a couple of times in the past, for people to opt-in to different things (there are none of those at the moment).

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: "Bypass: not moderated" status for topics #suggestion

 

ps You know my request for this? Please don’t ever do it. EVER. Lol 
Delete the request! Worst idea in the world! 🤪🤪🤪


On Apr 22, 2022, at 7:57 AM, Janet_Catlady via groups.io <JanetOliviaCatlady@...> wrote:

After posting this I realized that of course, you could not allow topics to be both "moderated" and "bypass - not moderated." And since the former goes through hashtag, and the latter would too, this would require scanning any hashtags users try to attach for conflicts. If these attributes were attachable directly to topcs rather than through hashtags, that would make resolving conflicts easier, and would, I'd argue, make everything simpler and more transparent as well. But I think it would also require a substantial redesign. I think it's worth considering, as radical as it sounds.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Force actual download of CSV member list from "Download" button #suggestion

Christopher Warrington
 

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 10:53 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote: > I've switched the Content-Type for that page from text/plain to text/csv. > Which is what it was at some point long ago, but changed for reasons I > don't remember. It really should be text/csv, and that should cause the > behavior you're looking for.

There are a few more knobs too, if they're helpful, the help convince browsers to download instead of render:

--

Christopher Warrington


moderated Re: Posting a message "from" the group owner address doesn't post as from the group owner address #bug

Chip Davis <chip@...>
 

<sigh> I already have members asking for that interface ... :-/

As I posted to another forum just the other day: "Friends don't let friend use The Facebook", to a surprisingly large agreement.  -C-


moderated Re: Posting a message "from" the group owner address doesn't post as from the group owner address #bug

 

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 12:06 PM, Donald Hellen wrote:
Now I am wondering if Mark is testing different versions of the GIO interface,
like Facebook does
How can you mention groups.io and Facebook in the same breath! lol
I will test again later. Just running out the door now...
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Posting a message "from" the group owner address doesn't post as from the group owner address #bug

Donald Hellen
 

Now I am wondering if Mark is testing different versions of the GIO interface,
like Facebook does, across subsets of the user base. For instance, you and I
could see quite a different FB page at the same moment. This happens all the
time and few are even aware of it.

That makes it difficult to keep browser add-ins working for everyone who uses a
FB "fixer" add-in, because while it works for one person, it may not for
another. Then again, a fix made in an add-on for FB might fix a problem for most
of the users might just create a new problem for others. This is the case with
the FB "fixer" called Social Fixer. It works well, for most of the users, most
of the time. But sometimes FB makes a change across a subset of its user base
and only some have problems because of it. Others don't have any problems,
because they weren't in the subset where the changes are being tested.

I mention this just in case Mark rolls out new features slowly across all users.
I didn't think he did this, but now I'm wondering if this is indeed the case
here since we're seeing different results when doing the same things.

Of course, all bets are off if there's a "fixer" add-in for GIO that some are
using and some are not. I am not aware of any, though, at this time.

Donald

On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 06:57:16 -0700, "Janet_Catlady"
<JanetOliviaCatlady@...> wrote:

I'm not seeing that. I know. At least one other person here is also not seeing it. But I've tested this a couple of times. As someone here suggested, maybe it depends on some group setting?

----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

That would be great! Thanks!


On Apr 22, 2022, at 11:25 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 10:52 AM Janet_Catlady <JanetOliviaCatlady@...> wrote:

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. I saw "edited message" and didn't look further down. So maybe that should say "edited message and sent to group" ?

I'm thinking of combining the two activity log entries into just 'Edited Message' (if the message wasn't sent, it'll still be noted in the log). I think that'd address your (understandable) confusion and make things more clear. 


Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 10:52 AM Janet_Catlady <JanetOliviaCatlady@...> wrote:

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. I saw "edited message" and didn't look further down. So maybe that should say "edited message and sent to group" ?

I'm thinking of combining the two activity log entries into just 'Edited Message' (if the message wasn't sent, it'll still be noted in the log). I think that'd address your (understandable) confusion and make things more clear. 


Mark 


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 10:52 AM, Janet_Catlady wrote:
I looked there first and didn't see it,
Sorry, meaning that I looked in the mod dropdown first and didn't see it.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

Mark,

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. I saw "edited message" and didn't look further down. So maybe that should say "edited message and sent to group" ?

It also seems strange that a mod-permitted-only action like "save without sending" is included in the member activity dropdown. I looked there first and didn't see it, and eventually found my way to the member activity dropdown. Shouldn't "save without sending" be exclusively in the moderator dropdown?

Thanks.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Suspended by Zoom? #bug

Jack Heim
 

Sounds as if you're doing the best you can. My only suggestion would be to disable the feature in the mean time so people don't get the error message. That's a bad look.


On 4/22/22 12:08, Glenn Glazer wrote:
On 04/22/2022 09:15, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:23 AM Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:
Got this when I logged in:

[Suspended app screenshot removed]

Yes, I'm aware of this. At the end of last year, Zoom did a security audit (via a 3rd party) of all websites that had Zoom apps, including Groups.io. It came back with a couple of issues in Javascript libraries that we used. I upgraded a few, but one sticking point is that we use a version of Jquery that has some insecure functions. We don't use those functions, so it's not an issue for us. But they won't unsuspend us until I upgrade the library anyways. To upgrade Jquery would require a bunch of work, because other libraries that we use don't work with the latest, secure, version of Jquery. So I would need to find replacements for them, and do the work to integrate them.

I thought that the existing Zoom integration would continue to work for people during this, but I guess maybe that's not the case.

I have been trying to decide how best to proceed. I'd really like to upgrade the widget library we're using for the website (currently an old version of Bootstrap). If I do that, then the Jquery issue goes away, but it's also a huge amount of work.

Thanks,
Mark

Library dependencies are the worst. I code against a 15 year old, constantly evolving architecture at work that uses half a dozen or so different languages, each with their own set of third party libs and dependency trees and that's not even counting OS package dependencies.

Which is a (perhaps overly geeky) way of saying I feel your pain.

Best,

Glenn
P.S. I'm not a UI guy, so I don't have an informed opinion about widget libraries. The last time I wrote a UI, it was in Tkinter ;) and it was just a pop up window for an updater.

--
PG&E Delenda Est
-- Jack Heim, john@...


moderated Re: Activty-log search on "edited message" very buggy #bug

 

Hi J,

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:39 AM Janet_Catlady <JanetOliviaCatlady@...> wrote:
If you do an activity log search on "edited message," (a) most of the "edited message" activities recorded in the log do not show up, and (b) they first show up in chronological order (earliest first). So I am first seeing edited messages from 2016, and then when I click on the date to reverse the order, I'm missing most of the edit activities. I can't ballpark the fraction I'm missing, or what the criterion is, but it seems to be missing at least half of them. And it misses all the ones I happened to be searching for this morning, namely, edits to many posts by a particular problematic member.

It looks like in November 2016, the activity log entries switch from 'edited message' to 'edited message without sending to the group'. Does that correspond to how you've been editing messages since then?

Thanks,
Mark 

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