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moderated Following catch-up emailing misses the first message under certain circumstances #bug #misc #suggestion

 

Hi Mark,

In doing a test for "Manually following a topic with attachments sends out invalid attachments in the catch-up emails" I discovered another bug or feature, depending on definition.  (It is also somewhat related to J's posting, Make "follow topic have same catch-up effect regardless of followed method as I think it's the same spot in the code that decides)

Namely, if one is set to Following with 1st message also, if that topic's starter message was sent/emailed within some timeframe, the code skips emailing that fist message; if greater it does include it.

On the group I found the original attachment problem where I'm FF+1st, I manually followed a topic from March 6th and that one came without the first message. I then followed an older topic from Feb 24 and that one did come with the first message.

Also in the past when I was testing Following stuff, I'd follow a topic, get all the catch-up emails, unfollow it then follow it again on the same day, and I would not get them again the second time.  I haven't tested this lately, but what that and this current issue tells me is that the code apparently uses some timeframe along with the message UID to decide whether to email a catch-up email to an FF user.  I can see that being that way in order to avoid duplicated messages going out, but only on the same day, my opinion is that if a topic is followed on any later day from the topic starter message (24 hrs timeframe?) everything should go out again, hence the #suggestion tag.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Manually following a topic with attachments sends out invalid attachments in the catch-up emails #bug

 

Hi Mark,

It works now but I did discover another problem while testing it, separate report submitted.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: What happens when a group is Locked? #misc #suggestion

Andy I
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 02:13 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
If you have a suggestion (per the hashtag), please describe your proposal.

I thought I did:

"IMHO, if it has been LOCKED, there ought to be something prominent that says so.  Such as changing the button's text from "Join This Group" to "This Group Is Currently Locked And Can't Be Joined"."

I would expand on that now, by suggesting that anything that causes a function to be disabled (including the "Join This Group" button) should have a visible explanation as to WHAT or WHY.

If there's a bug, it seems to me the problem isn't that the Join button doesn't work, but that subscribing via email still does.

That part is hard to tell, but I tend to agree with you, as I suggested in an earlier reply.

Because everything else in the group seems to function, it appears that maybe the group isn't locked because of exceeding 100 members -- in which case the broken "Join This Group" button would be the only bug.  OTOH, the bug may be that everything else still functions.

Again I am only guessing here (which I shouldn't be doing) -- but it would appear that the group's owner doesn't know his group has been Locked, or that there is any reason why it might be Locked.  (And if that's true, then another #suggestion might be to send weekly loud reminders to the owners/moderators to let them know that their group is Locked.  But I'm getting ahead of things.)

Andy


moderated Re: Manually following a topic with attachments sends out invalid attachments in the catch-up emails #bug

 

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 1:25 PM Christos Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

I just manually followed a topic which had attachments on some of the messages.  When I got the catch-up emails, while the attachments were included and correctly named, the files themselves were not the actual files but some pointer/reference/object name/no clue gibberish characters value (can be viewed in Windows Notepad).  The "attachments" range in size from 24 bytes for PDFs to around 200 bytes for the JPEGs and other types.  They seem to contain the same starting string to a certain point, then it varies. A second test of this on the same group with a different topic with attachments behaved the same way.

This has been fixed.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: What happens when a group is Locked? #misc #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 10:52 AM, Andy wrote:
I am not sure what is going on with this.
I can't speak for others, but I'm kinda at a loss to respond because I don't yet understand where you're coming from.

If you have a suggestion (per the hashtag), please describe your proposal.

If there's a bug, it seems to me the problem isn't that the Join button doesn't work, but that subscribing via email still does.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: What happens when a group is Locked? #misc #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

Andy . . .

On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 07:52:39 -0800, "Andy" <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

I am not sure what is going on with this.

There seems to be only one obvious symptom: Nobody can "Join This Group" by clicking the "Join This Group" button. Everything else seems to work. But that button is broken.
This subject might be more appropriate in the GMF group since at this point we
don't know if it's a bug or part of the way basic groups work after hitting the
magic 100 number of members before a charge is applied to the group for each
member.

If this were a suggestion or bug, it might be discussed here, but I think it's
not either, and you might actually get some discussion in the group managers'
forum.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


moderated Re: What happens when a group is Locked? #misc #suggestion

Andy I
 

I am not sure what is going on with this.

There seems to be only one obvious symptom: Nobody can "Join This Group" by clicking the "Join This Group" button.  Everything else seems to work.  But that button is broken.

Why?


moderated Re: What happens when a group is Locked? #misc #suggestion

Andy I
 

Hmm, the plot thickens (slightly).

The group can be joined, by email.  But not from the web.  Why is joining via the web blocked, but not joining via email?

I don't know for sure what group level it is, but it has no Files or Photos or Database sections, so I'm guessing it is a free Basic group, which has now exceeded its quota of 100 members.

I did not try sending a message, but it doesn't look like anything would stop it, yet.  The "New Topic" button and "Reply" links are all there.  One would think that they should be blocked if sending a message is prevented, so that you don't waste your time writing a long message, only to have it lost.

In other words, if the group is Locked because of >100 members, I think the groups.io interface needs some work.

Andy


moderated What happens when a group is Locked? #misc #suggestion

Andy I
 

I was unsure where to ask this.  I started in Group_Help but moved it here because I think it may turn into a #suggestion.

Part 1:  What does it mean when the "Join This Group" button on a group's main page is greyed out?  Not really grey, but slightly lighter than the normal dark blue -- and the mouse pointer turns into a red circle and slash, when hovering over that button.

I think it might mean the group is LOCKED.

I saw that this button should not work when a banned member is currently logged in to groups.io, but that is not the case here.  The group's membership is not otherwise restricted and its settings say "Subscriptions to this group do not require approval from the moderators" and "Archive is visible to anyone."

So I wondered what else would cause this to happen, and I came up with two possibilities:

(1)  The group had a lot of activity in January which ended abruptly.  Maybe the activity turned "bad", and the owner LOCKED the group until heads cooled.

(2)  It might have gotten LOCKED automatically, if it was a Premium group that downgraded back to Basic, and its membership exceeded 100 members.  The group in question was created shortly after Feb. 8, 2021 (the cutoff date to which this applies), and there is a note in the Owners Manual saying that this happens when such a group upgrades to Premium and then downgrades back to Basic and has too many members.  Indeed, that group has 114 members.  So, it might explain the group being LOCKED -- if that is what happened to it.

Part 2:  If a group is LOCKED, is there anything to tell potential members that it is LOCKED and that's why the "Join This Group" button doesn't work?

I can't see anything on the group's page that would suggest that it's locked, or otherwise restricted.  Indeed, the listed settings suggest that anyone can join.

IMHO, if it has been LOCKED, there ought to be something prominent that says so.  Such as changing the button's text from "Join This Group" to "This Group Is Currently Locked And Can't Be Joined".

Part 3:  If a Basic group (that did not downgrade from Premium) reaches 100 members, is there any indication telling potential new members why they can't join?  Presumably such a group would not be LOCKED.

Part 4:  Can new members join a group that is Locked (by its owner)?  The Owners Manual says that members are prevented from posting messages or making changes in a Locked group, but I didn't see anything about new members.  (Admittedly I didn't read everything.)  It makes sense that new members are locked out when it is a Basic group with >=100 members, but does that happen with any Locked group too?  I'm just curious about that.

Andy


moderated Re: Really lock a topic #suggestion

 

Hi All,

I've just pushed the following changes to production:

- Locked topics can no longer be posted to by anyone, including moderators
- The New Topic and reply pages now have `Lock Topic After Posting` checkboxes that will lock the topic after the message is posted

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

 

Hey all,

Is there really a problem here? First, the error message is not bad. But I think you can avoid the error message and bounce entirely. A specific "reply to sender" via email works perfectly, is marked private, and goes to the same place a reply via the web goes to. There's no need to "determine the email address of who sent the first message and forward it." That's not even how replies sent via the web work. Is there some reason I'm missing why can't groups.io, instead of intercepting and bouncing a message "sent to group," can't intercept and treat it as if the sender had checked "reply to sender"? Do I need more caffeine?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 11:13 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Thus, it might be possible to marry up these fields, determine the email address of who sent the first message, and forward it. 
Big caveat -- The "in-reply-to" field is not required by RFC2822, and there is anecdotal evidence that some email clients fail to include it in the header when replying to a message.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45690336/do-all-email-clients-use-in-reply-to-field-in-email-header 

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

Malcolm Austen
 

On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 16:13:10 -0000, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

Thus, it might be possible to marry up these fields, determine the email address of who sent the first message, and forward it.

Why?

If there have been three posts before the hashtag is applied then there are (up to) three people who are eligible for "reply to sender". All the hashtag can actually enforce is "don't reply to group".

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.auen@...


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 10:40 AM, I wrote:
What I'm struggling with is what mechanisms are available to make that happen.
But I haven't given up yet!

When groups.io sends out a group message, in includes a unique message ID in the header, something like this (sent from my GMail account):

Message-ID: <CAN-K-dJ6AGaT7wE-zYYJp0FFOdHjKhKru8X7k58Y-=RcCXq2KA@...>

This same message ID also appears in the header of the message as stored in the online message archive (I don't know if it is indexed and searchable).

I received this message via email in my TDS account and replied to it. The header field of the outgoing TDS message contained this:

In-Reply-To: <CAN-K-dJ6AGaT7wE-zYYJp0FFOdHjKhKru8X7k58Y-=RcCXq2KA@...>

Thus, it might be possible to marry up these fields, determine the email address of who sent the first message, and forward it. 

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 03:46 PM, Janet_Catlady wrote:
"500 Replies to this topic must be sent to the sender, not the group."
If the hashtag marked "reply to sender" is added to the topic after subsequent responses to the original message and someone replies to one of those via email, is that what they see?  I can see that being confusing because as far as they would be concerned, they would be replying to the sender of a particular message probably without looking to see that the To: address is actually the group name. Perhaps rewording the error message to say "Replies must be sent to the original sender, not the group" would be more appropriate.

Regards
Andy


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

 

I obviously need more caffeine. Here's the error message:
"500 Replies to this topic must be sent to the sender, not the group."
It's already there.:-)

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 07:43 AM, Janet_Catlady wrote:
There has to be a better way.
One solution might be to simply disallow adding such a hashtag. I'm not sure how much harder that would be than creating a good error message.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 07:40 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Not really.
Yes, I corrected that before you posted this. But imagine the poor group member, innocently replying to a message and getting a bounce for no known reason. There has to be a better way.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Adding a "reply to sender" hashtag after first message posts results in bounce if user replies via email #misc #suggestion #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 10:31 AM, Janet_Catlady wrote:
But it is inconsistent and unexpected by a moderator who adds the hashtag. The expected behavior (replies going privately) works if someone replies via the web, but utterly fails if they try to reply via email.
I do understand the rationale...that an email reply behave the same as a web reply.

When someone replies to a groups.io message via email and has checked "reply to group," doesn't that go through groups.io? It is, after all, groups.io which is creating the bounce message, I think. So shouldn't such a message, instead of bouncing, be interceptable and rerouted to go directly to the sender (instead of to the group) instead of bouncing entirely?
So I was correct...you want it to be forwarded.

With the understanding that several people may have posted to the topic before the hashtag was applied, I'm unclear how groups.io is to figure out which person to forward it to.
I'm suggesting that groups.io treat it the same way a web-generated message would be treated: namely, sent to the last person who posted in the topic.
Not really.

When you click on a Reply button via the web, groups.io knows which message you're reading (and thus, replying to), and can route it accordingly. It does not send it to the last person who posted to the topic, unless that happened to be the message you were reading at the time.

Again, I understand why marrying up the web and email behaviors is desirable. What I'm struggling with is what mechanisms are available to make that happen.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Link that doesn't work? #bug

Donald Hellen
 

Andy . . .

On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 06:04:54 -0800, "Andy Wedge" <andy_wedge@...>
wrote:


If, by chance, your member is clicking on a link that points to a file instead of the folder you intended, it may be that the file has been downloaded in the background, in which case, a new tab may open while download completes and then close, leaving your member with the same view they had before. When that happens, they should see a blue downward pointing arrow to the right of the search bar indicating that something has been downloaded
Great that you mentioned this browser behavior. I'm used to it now in Chrome but
the first time I used it to download files it confused me. I ended up with 3 of
the same files downloaded (different suffixes appended to the 2nd and 3rd
files). I found that it showed the current download in the lower LH corner of
Chrome.

I much prefer Firefox but it's all in what you like and get used to.

The CTRL-J works in Chrome and Firefox, and might be the same in all browsers.
In FF, there's a download progress indicator that you can click on to see recent
downloads, too.

As for the person who seems to be having trouble with a link on GIO, maybe
changing browser will help troubleshoot the problem.


Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main

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