Date   

locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 04:20 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
this entire thread now reminds me of:
OMG OMG OMG this is the funniest thing I've read EVER!!!!!
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

Somehow, this entire thread now reminds me of:

https://deadspin.com/rainbow-cake-recipe-inspires-comment-apocalypse-1592575661

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Steven M
 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 06:40 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 11:01 AM, Steven M wrote:
3. I fully agree that any regular Internet user will have no trouble at all remembering a simple name like "groups.io." However, right now I am trying to set up an online group which might include some older folks, who might lack proficieincy in Internet usage, unless the name is totally conventional. I am not saying this  to detract from the huge value of this website; rather, I am highlighting how amazingly useful this website truly is. 
Steven,
I would suggest that you owe and  "older folks" as referenced in you item above a real apology.
I hope to hit my 91st birthday on April  13, 2022.  It's probable that I've been  typing on computer keyboards and popping bit switches and soldering, wirewrapping etc to build software for years before your birtth.
There are many , many otcogenarians that I know who would hand you your metaphorical head if they saw that gross misstatement.

As a previous poster stated, it is most likely an educational handicap, not been taught to use  computers.
Or possibly just not able to access the instruction and or use to build proficiency.
There is another group of " I'm just too old to learn."  But in my experience they are  in the minority.

I think you should  consider adjusting your attitude towards those elders that you have been dissing.
You should look toward the more functional ones to help you in both helping those in need of education and you should take it upon yourself to offer some basic instruction to those in need.
That could take the  form of "canned" how to emails, videos on youtube, etc.
That a bit of senior advice - listen to what they are trying to tell you and use your knowledge to help them bit by bit.

 
--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 

Hi Bob, and also, Hi Dano 
 
firstly, let me begin by stating that I do indeed apologize fully to Bob and to Dano in reply to the earlier individual message from each of you. forthrightly and fully. It was not my intention to slight older folks in any way. Indeed, there are many older people who are much wiser, clearer, better than me, smarter than me. Some of them are my own relatives, some of them are neighbors or members of my own community. Some are highly prominent and accomplished public servants and elected officials. some of them are decorated veterans who faced risks that I cannot even imagine, saw their own buddies getting struck down, and fought for and defended our country. 
 
And also, when I had my own ups and downs in life, some of my own older relatives made themselves completely available to help me in every way emotionally, even when they had their own problems to deal with. So yes, I absolutely agree with you that not only are elderly people fully active and involved, frequently, they are the pillar and rock for the younger, less-experienced members of their own family. So again, I do fully apologize to you and to anyone and everyone who feels similarly, fully and frankly.
 
With that said, let me just say that in  my own flawed way, I had a deeper point I was trying to make, so let me rephrase it completely. Since I am setting up a resource for hopefully the entire community, there are various segments within my own local community that might be less technically proficient and less able to navigate certain parts or to absorb certain types of data that pertain to internet usages. this is certainly not a linear correlation with the person's age as the sole parameter or variable; many elderly people are fully comfortable and experienced with the web, often more than myself, as you rightly and importantly pointed out. 
 
However, in trying to anticipate community needs, I am simply trying to anticipate the many factors and the many segments of our local populace who might need things to be made easier, in order to maximize the odds that they will use the new resources. 
 
Since my own lack of awareness caused me to unintentionally attribute such difficulty to certain attributes, even though I was highly far from accurate in doing so, let me just say that whatever the individual characteristics may be, my only goal waas to try to build and to plan for a set of resources that would be genuinely useful and greatly convenient for all to use. 
 
Lastly, let me say that I truly value, appreciate, and am grateful for the extremely feedback that you were generously willing to offer here. SInce being a group moderator entails being fully sensitive and empathetic to all members of the group, I certainly would not be doing a good job if I can't even phrase my own messages with sensitivity, in a group where I am a simple ordinary member. 
 
So lastly, I do thank you for your highly valuable feedback, I do apologize, and I will take your valuable feedback to heart. thanks very much for your thoughtful and helpful reply. looking forward to further discussions, here on this great forum. thanks.
 
If you would be so kind as to show me the kindness of a reply, I would greatly appreciate it. I do highly value your comments here, and also, I would like to be able to feel that we could conclude this interchange with some feeling of a  positive understanding with you as fellow human beings, and also as fellow aficionados of forums, and all sundry things in the areas of internet groups. So any reply you might wish to send would be most welcome, and appreciated. I appreciate all your thoughts on this.  thanks. 
 
Steven
 


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

 

Ken's trying to be funny. He's not. Anyone who worked much with cars knows how to set the timing by ear if necessary. Dwell took a meter, but the data was under the hood. Today you order a new aftermarket control chip which has those parameters preset. If you want something different, tell 'em and they'll program it that way. Same with transmission control. I'm not sure he knows that.

Dave, I'm afraid too many kids today don't understand about mechanical things. If it can't be controlled with a keyboard they're lost. Don't get me wrong - I use a computer to set control systems for motors and lighting control systems. But you also have to understand the mechanical parts that push the whole thing down the road.

And age isn't a factor. Interests and intellectual capacity are more important. Mark is a fine example - when it comes to building complex computer systems he's amazing. Y! couldn't hire anyone to fix the system he originally built years ago. But for every person like Mark there are probably 1000 hack programmers who couldn't program a simple query routine. And we see their work all around us in software that doesn't work smoothly or isn't intuitive. Oftentimes, age is actually a bonus for the experience that comes along with it.

My point again is don't categorize "old people" from your own imagination. There may be some who fit your stereotype, but there are also young people who do as well.

Dano

PS - John - Stuff it.
______________________

Ken Schweizer

We must remember the older folks needed a car manual to adjust the
timing. The new car manuals says not to drink the liquid from the battery
when thirsty.
Actually, I have yet to find an owners manual that says not to drink battery acid. Most modern batteries are "sealed for life" and its not easy to drink the battery acid.
Its also impossible to adjust most parts on the engine, so no point in saying how to adjust the timing. Its all optical, there are no points to gap and clean.
The tappets are general hydraulic so self adjusting. Last time my car had a fault it needed a firmware upgrade.

My son asked me about engine tuning.
I said well in my day you polished the manifolds to improve air flow. Fitted bigger carbs, high lift cams, perhaps bigger valves, skim the head for higher compression ratio...
... these days you just re-program the Engine Management Unit....

The world has moved on

Dave


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 03:40 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
I hope to hit my 91st birthday on April  13, 2022

What do you mean, "hope to hit"? You will hit it! And happy birthday in advance!

While very far from my 91st birthday, I'm no spring chicken, either - as my 23-year-old boyfriend used to tell me when I was 30 (everything is relative;). And as a long-time software engineering veteran I, too, tend to take offense, rightly or wrongly, at the ageist comments that float around when it comes to tech. There's not much that can be done about it, I'm afraid.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 11:01 AM, Steven M wrote:
3. I fully agree that any regular Internet user will have no trouble at all remembering a simple name like "groups.io." However, right now I am trying to set up an online group which might include some older folks, who might lack proficieincy in Internet usage, unless the name is totally conventional. I am not saying this  to detract from the huge value of this website; rather, I am highlighting how amazingly useful this website truly is. 
Steven,
I would suggest that you owe and  "older folks" as referenced in you item above a real apology.
I hope to hit my 91st birthday on April  13, 2022.  It's probable that I've been  typing on computer keyboards and popping bit switches and soldering, wirewrapping etc to build software for years before your birtth.
There are many , many otcogenarians that I know who would hand you your metaphorical head if they saw that gross misstatement.

As a previous poster stated, it is most likely an educational handicap, not been taught to use  computers.
Or possibly just not able to access the instruction and or use to build proficiency.
There is another group of " I'm just too old to learn."  But in my experience they are  in the minority.

I think you should  consider adjusting your attitude towards those elders that you have been dissing.
You should look toward the more functional ones to help you in both helping those in need of education and you should take it upon yourself to offer some basic instruction to those in need.
That could take the  form of "canned" how to emails, videos on youtube, etc.
That a bit of senior advice - listen to what they are trying to tell you and use your knowledge to help them bit by bit.

 
--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:19 PM, John Wirtz SF wrote:
Back in your boxes, be useful or be gone…
This gets more amusing by the minute!
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Dave Wade
 

-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken
Schweizer
Sent: 26 January 2022 22:55
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks
for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

We must remember the older folks needed a car manual to adjust the
timing. The new car manuals says not to drink the liquid from the battery
when thirsty.
Actually, I have yet to find an owners manual that says not to drink battery acid. Most modern batteries are "sealed for life" and its not easy to drink the battery acid.
Its also impossible to adjust most parts on the engine, so no point in saying how to adjust the timing. Its all optical, there are no points to gap and clean.
The tappets are general hydraulic so self adjusting. Last time my car had a fault it needed a firmware upgrade.

My son asked me about engine tuning.
I said well in my day you polished the manifolds to improve air flow. Fitted bigger carbs, high lift cams, perhaps bigger valves, skim the head for higher compression ratio...
... these days you just re-program the Engine Management Unit....

The world has moved on

Dave



“You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can’t, you
do the next best thing. You back up but you don’t give up.” ―Chuck Yeager

-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of D
R Stinson
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 3:07 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion;
thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Steven M writes:
3. I fully agree that any regular Internet user will have no trouble
at all
remembering a simple name like "groups.io." However, right now I am
trying to set up an online group which might include some older folks,
who might lack proficieincy in Internet usage, unless the name is
totally conventional. …
Unless you have research to back up that assertion, I believe you may
be making an invalid initial assumption. Older people may actually
tend to respect accurate names more than younger members.

Truth be known, in my too many decades as a group owner and moderator
on both Y! and groups.io, I have found that any such divide tends to
be by educational level and experience in writing, and not by age.
Your suggestion may be creating a classification that is invalid from
the start. Some of my oldest and most adept contributing members tend to
be older, well-versed people.

To add a personal note to this comment, I have reached my allotted
three-score and ten, and often find myself as a junior member in some
very interesting and well-written discussions. Don't make
age-delimited assumptions; like so many absolutes they will bite you in the
ass.

Dano







locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Ken Schweizer
 

We must remember the older folks needed a car manual to adjust the timing. The new car manuals says not to drink the liquid from the battery when thirsty.


“You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can’t, you do the next best thing. You back up but you don’t give up.” ―Chuck Yeager

-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of D R
Stinson
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 3:07 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for
all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Steven M writes:
3. I fully agree that any regular Internet user will have no trouble at all
remembering a simple name like "groups.io." However, right now I am trying to
set up an online group which might include some older folks, who might lack
proficieincy in Internet usage, unless the name is totally conventional. …
Unless you have research to back up that assertion, I believe you may be making
an invalid initial assumption. Older people may actually tend to respect
accurate names more than younger members.

Truth be known, in my too many decades as a group owner and moderator on
both Y! and groups.io, I have found that any such divide tends to be by
educational level and experience in writing, and not by age. Your suggestion
may be creating a classification that is invalid from the start. Some of my oldest
and most adept contributing members tend to be older, well-versed people.

To add a personal note to this comment, I have reached my allotted three-score
and ten, and often find myself as a junior member in some very interesting and
well-written discussions. Don't make age-delimited assumptions; like so many
absolutes they will bite you in the ass.

Dano




locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

 

Steven M writes:
3. I fully agree that any regular Internet user will have no trouble at all remembering a simple name like "groups.io." However, right now I am trying to set up an online group which might include some older folks, who might lack proficieincy in Internet usage, unless the name is totally conventional. …
Unless you have research to back up that assertion, I believe you may be making an invalid initial assumption. Older people may actually tend to respect accurate names more than younger members.

Truth be known, in my too many decades as a group owner and moderator on both Y! and groups.io, I have found that any such divide tends to be by educational level and experience in writing, and not by age. Your suggestion may be creating a classification that is invalid from the start. Some of my oldest and most adept contributing members tend to be older, well-versed people.

To add a personal note to this comment, I have reached my allotted three-score and ten, and often find myself as a junior member in some very interesting and well-written discussions. Don't make age-delimited assumptions; like so many absolutes they will bite you in the ass.

Dano


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

John Wirtz SF
 

In defence of Steve!

 

I think the chosen few who are consistently contributing to this site with very few real answers to problems raised were particularly heavy handed in their rejection of a member’s suggestion of a possible name change.  No discussion, just rejection!  He’s posted a humble explanation of where he is coming from and it still prompted a reactionary reply from Duane.

 

Calm down folks and use this platform to report technical problems and then allow the person who knows the answer to come back.  That would be far more useful to us then all the one liners that don’t contribute to the technical problem being considered.

 

I was similarly lambasted for suggesting that group privacy is protected if one insists on knowing the identity of those who wish to join groups.  I ask for their full names and I don’t think one has refused.

So, Steve as far as I am concerned, the only person who was entitle and qualified to answer was the site owner.  I believe he has now done so.

 

Back in your boxes, be useful or be gone…

 

John Wirtz

 

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Duane
Sent: 26 January 2022 19:23
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies.

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 01:01 PM, Steven M wrote:

4. I full realize that this website BEGAN as "eGroups." So that is exactly why I suggested that name. it is already rightfully ours!!!

THIS website began as Groups.io in 2014.  I'm sure that when eGroups was sold, the name went with it.  The problem now would be finding out if it's still "owned" and by whom.  Really makes no difference since Mark has said the site name won't change, but should be stated correctly.

6. I absolutely applaud Mark Fletcher, the entire team of technicians

That may be a bit redundant.  Other than Nina for documentation (who's doing a great job!), I believe Mark is still the entire Groups.io staff.

I still remain hopeful that maybe, perhaps, we could simply add the word "eGroups" to the search terms here?

In effect, you just did.  If you search the web for eGroups, it will be found anyplace it occurs that the search engines can access, such as this group.  Unfortunately, it may be #633,000 on the list, so not really helpful.

Duane


locked Re: Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Duane
 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 01:01 PM, Steven M wrote:
4. I full realize that this website BEGAN as "eGroups." So that is exactly why I suggested that name. it is already rightfully ours!!!
THIS website began as Groups.io in 2014.  I'm sure that when eGroups was sold, the name went with it.  The problem now would be finding out if it's still "owned" and by whom.  Really makes no difference since Mark has said the site name won't change, but should be stated correctly.

6. I absolutely applaud Mark Fletcher, the entire team of technicians
That may be a bit redundant.  Other than Nina for documentation (who's doing a great job!), I believe Mark is still the entire Groups.io staff.

I still remain hopeful that maybe, perhaps, we could simply add the word "eGroups" to the search terms here?
In effect, you just did.  If you search the web for eGroups, it will be found anyplace it occurs that the search engines can access, such as this group.  Unfortunately, it may be #633,000 on the list, so not really helpful.

Duane


locked Answers to question re my "eGroups" suggestion; thanks for all your helpful replies. #suggestion

Steven M
 

I am replying to acknowledge and thank you for your replies. the original thread has been closed, so I will respect that. I simply wanted to clarify the following, in response to people's questions:

1. I am absolutely not a troll. the suggest was meant sincerely, in earnest, and with the best of intentions.

2. I should have been clearer; I absolutely agree we should NOT change the domain name itself. I simply meant that if we give the website a name for general usage, perhaps simply as a keyword, or as a prominent search term; even with the existing domain name in place, then that word as a keyword would lead any user to this website via a simple Google search. 

3. I fully agree that any regular Internet user will have no trouble at all remembering a simple name like "groups.io." However, right now I am trying to set up an online group which might include some older folks, who might lack proficieincy in Internet usage, unless the name is totally conventional. I am not saying this  to detract from the huge value of this website; rather, I am highlighting how amazingly useful this website truly is. 

4. I full realize that this website BEGAN as "eGroups." So that is exactly why I suggested that name. it is already rightfully ours!!!

5 Yahoo was absolutely and totally WRONG to delete Yahoo Groups so arbitrarily. it was an outrage. it was like deleting someone's private email account, times ten thousand!!!

6. I absolutely applaud Mark Fletcher, the entire team of technicians, and all of the moderator community who do so much to make Groups.io such a fantastic, amazing resource for the whole world community. you have my deepest gratitude and admiration. I want to make that totally clear, beyond any doubt. 

7. Lastly, my own history in this field was that I ran a Yahoo Group for my local community,. It was highyl active for over ten years, with over 2,000 members. The current site for that group at groups.io does not have our full past archives, so I wanted to clarify our history, for any site admins who might have glanced at my own contributions here.

I truly, truly, respect, value, and applaud the efforts of everyone here, including everyone who was kind enough to reply. I will take all your replies into account.

I still remain hopeful that maybe, perhaps, we could simply add the word "eGroups" to the search terms here? I would still like to make it easier for regular folks to find this on Google. however, this will be (probably) be the last time that I will express that suggestion. I will yield to the opinions of the community as a whole.

If anyone wishes to reply or to comment, I would welcome your input, feedback, constructive criticism, etc etc as much as you may wish. I welcome any and all replies. thanks!!  One thing, I take all your replies seriously, and will never label the thoughts or views of any rational person as "trolling." I would appreciate the same small courtesy in return. for anyone who did express that term, though, it's all good, no hard feelings at all. a little blunt feedback and response is totally fine as well; all part of the discourse. thanks!! 

Steve 


locked Re: we need a better name for this website! so that people can remember it easily! how about "EGROUPS"?!! Please comment!!!! #suggestion

 

Hi All,

I'm not going to change the name.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: we need a better name for this website! so that people can remember it easily! how about "EGROUPS"?!! Please comment!!!! #suggestion

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 07:26 AM, JohnF wrote:
Subject to Terms and Conditions.
+1  
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: we need a better name for this website! so that people can remember it easily! how about "EGROUPS"?!! Please comment!!!! #suggestion

 

For a mere $200/month, you can upgrade to Groups.io Enterprise, which allows you to use your own domain and branding, meaning you can call the site whatever you want! Subject to Terms and Conditions.

JohnF


locked Re: we need a better name for this website! so that people can remember it easily! how about "EGROUPS"?!! Please comment!!!! #suggestion

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 02:24 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
No one remembers the name "groups.io.
Actually I've seen a bunch of group members refer to it as "io groups" or just "io." :-)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: we need a better name for this website! so that people can remember it easily! how about "EGROUPS"?!! Please comment!!!! #suggestion

 

On the one hand, this thread should be killed. On the other hand, I am watching it with a kind of perverse fascination ;)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: we need a better name for this website! so that people can remember it easily! how about "EGROUPS"?!! Please comment!!!! #suggestion

Andy I
 

It is also possible that Steven M doesn't know that top-level domain names are limited.  Maybe Steven thinks the domain name should be nothing more than "egroups" -- without the ".com" or ".io" or whatever.


locked Re: we need a better name for this website! so that people can remember it easily! how about "EGROUPS"?!! Please comment!!!! #suggestion

Andy I
 

I am still unconvinced that this suggestion was not some sort of cruel joke.

Or a troll.

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