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Re: #suggestion to facilitate ease of contacting specific members
#suggestion
Peter
Thank you Andy for your message. However, as our database(s) do not contain non-members (in fact only confirmed members can post to the Group or access any of the extant facilities), I don't see this as an issue. In common with other groups, many of our members are non-pc and have enough problems with using the system - thankfully, the majority now know how to access a database, thank goodness! An Actions button would only be used by a table owner or the moderators.
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Re: #suggestion to facilitate ease of contacting specific members
#suggestion
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 04:40 PM, Peter wrote:
As far as I can see, the Actions buttons on other screens (such as the one on RSVP events when viewing the responders) have one thing in common and that is that they operate against group members. Given that any email address could be entered in a database, having an Action button that allows you to send a message to that address could mean sending messages to non-members. Shouldn't those messages be limited to invites or related to subscription requests? If you use the calendar and RSVP events for your meetings, you can easily contact those who respond and you don't have to maintain a separate list of email addresses. Regards Andy
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#suggestion to facilitate ease of contacting specific members
#suggestion
Peter
Hello Mark, Is it possible to add an 'Actions' box for Owners and Moderators to the bottom (or top!) of a Database, similar to that in the Members List. But to only have one action? In our Group, we often create a database for a specific meeting/reason etc that includes an email address column and it would be really good if the Owner / Mod could simply tick the box adjoining each line entry or all, then select the 'Action' and send a message to any or all of the people in the Database? Not sure if this can be done but it would be really great to have this facility. Looking forward to your thoughts and knowledge. Kind regards
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Mark,
I just posted about this but you can just delete my message. One of my group members seems to have run headlong into the bug before you took the system down for maintenance to fix it (he got "510 - group does not exist"). All seems fine now. Thanks. -- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Hi All, The site was down for the past hour or so. The main database process froze up, which has never happened before. To complicate things, I am away without my computer. The site is back up and I will do a postmortem after I'm back home. I apologize for the downtime. Thanks, Mark
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 02:29 PM, Duane wrote:
In that case, you wouldn't be able to turn the feature on even if it was added. Once the members found out that it wasn't a mandatory setting for the site, they'd come back on you for imposing the limit. I seriously doubt that most groups would use it and I certainly wouldn't on any of my groups.I run a group with ~1,000 members. Occasionally somebody starts to make a pest of himself by posting the same or similar messages again and again. I put such people in moderation. I explain to them that their actions are harmful to the group. If they don't shape up, I kick them out. So far (two years) I have warned about 25 people, and kicked out one who consistently refused to follow the rules. Jim F., you should enunciate some rules, and then enforce them. It's not terribly difficult. It jut takes some grit and determination. -- David Bryant Canyon Lake, Texas https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main https://davidcbryant.net
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Site updates
#changelog
Changes to the site this week: January 14, 2022:
January 12, 2022:
January 10, 2022:
The next #changelog will be published on Friday, January 21st. Take care everyone. Mark
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 02:20 PM, Jim F. wrote:
we have a contingent (not just the two offenders) who oppose any limits on anyoneIn that case, you wouldn't be able to turn the feature on even if it was added. Once the members found out that it wasn't a mandatory setting for the site, they'd come back on you for imposing the limit. I seriously doubt that most groups would use it and I certainly wouldn't on any of my groups. Duane
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
Jim F.
Chris-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I don't want to prolong this, but I should note that, as in Barbel's case, we have a contingent (not just the two offenders) who oppose any limits on anyone. And as I've indicated, I just don't have the authority to impose restrictions unilaterally. I believe that a transparent and impartial technical solution would meet with widespread assent; dictates from me as moderator would not. Best regards. -Jim
On Jan 14, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 07:14 PM, Peter Cook wrote: It seems to me this at this point that there is much (well-intentioned) repetition and beating of dead horses.Sadly that may well be true. Jim F: in a post earlier today you wrote It seems harsher on the posters, who would not even know that their posts aren't getting through. Why do you seem to consider the feelings of the "miscreants" more than those of the wider ("well behaved") membership? I may be mistaken but this seems to run through your various posts. They have (from your account) not lived up to the agreement to moderate their own conduct, but you seem opposed to taking any action using the tools that are available to you, and seem more concerned about not upsetting them while fed - up group members leave or take themselves off email delivery out of sheer frustration with what is going on. IMHO you are letting your wider membership down badly. Again IMHO asking Mark to provide a technical solution to the problem is simply wrong, not least because (at the risk of repeating myself) you have shunned the idea of using what exists at the moment without even trying it. Now I have no idea whatsoever what Mark's view of this request might be, but consider this: what are you going to do if he decides not to provide what you have requested? You will still have the problem and will be no closer to a solution. The likely outcome? As Barbara stated: Exodus of the members and group eventually finished as everybody who enjoyed the group as once was had left… Is that what you want, because I really think you are risking it. Chris (Yes I know this post is probably not in the spirit of the Group Charter but I am getting more than a little frustrated myself... sorry!)
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
Chris Jones
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 07:14 PM, Peter Cook wrote:
It seems to me this at this point that there is much (well-intentioned) repetition and beating of dead horses.Sadly that may well be true. Jim F: in a post earlier today you wrote It seems harsher on the posters, who would not even know that their posts aren't getting through. Why do you seem to consider the feelings of the "miscreants" more than those of the wider ("well behaved") membership? I may be mistaken but this seems to run through your various posts. They have (from your account) not lived up to the agreement to moderate their own conduct, but you seem opposed to taking any action using the tools that are available to you, and seem more concerned about not upsetting them while fed - up group members leave or take themselves off email delivery out of sheer frustration with what is going on. IMHO you are letting your wider membership down badly. Again IMHO asking Mark to provide a technical solution to the problem is simply wrong, not least because (at the risk of repeating myself) you have shunned the idea of using what exists at the moment without even trying it. Now I have no idea whatsoever what Mark's view of this request might be, but consider this: what are you going to do if he decides not to provide what you have requested? You will still have the problem and will be no closer to a solution. The likely outcome? As Barbara stated: Exodus of the members and group eventually finished as everybody who enjoyed the group as once was had left… Is that what you want, because I really think you are risking it. Chris (Yes I know this post is probably not in the spirit of the Group Charter but I am getting more than a little frustrated myself... sorry!)
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
Jim F.
Barbel-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks. Yes, that is what I think is happening. But while I would be willing to upset those two members (and have), I'm not the 'owner' (in a broad sense) of the group (which existed long before I got there), and given its history and customs I can't just throttle people unilaterally. So I think that the only solution would be to have a transparent and impartial technical solution that most of the active members, I think, would gladly agree to see implemented. It's helpful to know that this is not a unique problem. I agree with Pete that this has probably been enough discussion of the issue. Best regards. -Jim
On Jan 14, 2022, at 1:58 PM, Bärbel Stephenson <Lismibaebi@...> wrote: Jim, It is a very difficult situation you find yourself in. From experience I can tell you that you might just have to risk upsetting those 2 members or risk losing the group. Thinking of many years ago (years before the end of yahoo groups) I was in a much loved group with most members actively involved with posting. Then 2 new people joined and started posting excessively and probably looking for problems. Several members pleaded many times with the owners/moderators to do something. This was declined saying that these 2 people had their rights to post etc etc. What happened? Exodus of the members and group eventually finished as everybody who enjoyed the group as once was had left… Barbara
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 01:57 PM, Jim F. wrote:
We've had the hard conversations and they haven't worked.IMHO, this has nothing to do with "hard questions." It's about having guidelines, deciding to enforce them, and sticking to it to change behavior. If you're unwilling or unable to do that, then your original request is obviously the only solution. It seems to me this at this point that there is much (well-intentioned) repetition and beating of dead horses. Pete
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moderated
Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
Jim, It is a very difficult situation you find yourself in. From experience I can tell you that you might just have to risk upsetting those 2 members or risk losing the group. Thinking of many years ago (years before the end of yahoo groups) I was in a much loved group with most members actively involved with posting. Then 2 new people joined and started posting excessively and probably looking for problems. Several members pleaded many times with the owners/moderators to do something. This was declined saying that these 2 people had their rights to post etc etc. What happened? Exodus of the members and group eventually finished as everybody who enjoyed the group as once was had left… Barbara
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
Jim F.
Andy-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
<< I come back to my original thought that you have plenty of existing tools to control the situation but you are choosing not to use them. >> Muting topics wouldn't help both because people DO want to get the less frequent and more considered emails from other members, and because some of our members (including one of the excessive posters) somehow seem to start a new topic with many of their posts. (Yes, we could limit new topics but that would be too restrictive, and policing posting conventions would not be worth it, so we just merge them in later.) A hashtag would let people more consistently mute the topic (unless the poster omitted the hashtag), but it would still mute the entire topic rather than just the excessive posts (which appear in every topic), which would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And in any case, frankly, most members are not about to log on to the site in order to adjust their subscriptions--or even use the muting links at the bottom of an email. (It would be like figuring out how to set the clock on your VCR, for those who remember.) Most members never log in, so our moderators offer to set their email preferences for them. (And sometimes, I suspect, people unsubscribe from the site because they are sick of getting too many emails, even though they would want to continue getting the moderator special notices if they realized that they could.) I'm not sure why you think that incomplete or labor-intensive workarounds qualify as 'plenty of existing tools to control the situation'. As I said before, the goal should be to make the moderators' job easier, not to expect more of them. Our site mostly runs itself--which is what's great about Groups-io--and anything that required constant monitoring and action by the moderators would be a nonstarter. J-Catlady: We've had the hard conversations and they haven't worked. But we don't operate offlist, at all. (Note: For some reason, I didn't get an email of Andy's post, or J-Catlady's which is also on the site, but I did receive Duane's response.) Best regards. -Jim
On Jan 14, 2022, at 8:39 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote: On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 05:09 PM, Andy Wedge wrote: they would get the first message from one the your frequent posters and could elect to follow that to receive the restAnd then could elect to 'unfollow' when it gets to be a problem for them. Duane
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moderated
Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 04:54 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
The ability to mute individual members has been asked for many times and I think is already on the "to do" list. I offer that as the best answer.Even if muting could be reasonably accomplished (and I have my doubts), that would put the burden of the few (the bad actors) on the many (their recipients). Why not set the bad actors to "can't post." -- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
Jim F.
Tommy-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Exactly. Best regards. -Jim
On Jan 14, 2022, at 8:57 AM, Tommy Meehan <tmeehan0421@...> wrote: I agree, seventy plus messages from two members is too much. Right now, the only way to mute them that I know of would be to moderate them and choose 'not allowed to post.' The only other solution would seem to be announcing a limit on messages posted per day. Then delete everything over that limit. But if appealing to the members, asking them to essentially self-regulate doesn't work, if other members won't chime in with support, then what can you do? tommy0421
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
Jim F.
Bruce-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Individual muting would work. It seems harsher on the posters, who would not even know that their posts aren't getting through. And you would need an easy way to unmute them (an 'unmute all' link?) without logging into the website which would be a hurdle for many members. But it would mostly solve our problem. Best regards. -Jim
On Jan 14, 2022, at 7:54 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote: If too many messages from one or two people is driving other subscribers away, delaying their posts and delivering them in a bolus doesn't seem like a solution. The annoying people are still posting too much, and their annoying messages are still being delivered. The ability to mute individual members has been asked for many times and I think is already on the "to do" list. I offer that as the best answer. Regards, Bruce
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
I agree, seventy plus messages from two members is too much. Right now, the only way to mute them that I know of would be to moderate them and choose 'not allowed to post.' The only other solution would seem to be announcing a limit on messages posted per day. Then delete everything over that limit.
But if appealing to the members, asking them to essentially self-regulate doesn't work, if other members won't chime in with support, then what can you do? tommy0421
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 05:09 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
they would get the first message from one the your frequent posters and could elect to follow that to receive the restAnd then could elect to 'unfollow' when it gets to be a problem for them. Duane
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Re: Posting Limits
#suggestion
If too many messages from one or two people is driving other subscribers away, delaying their posts and delivering them in a bolus doesn't seem like a solution. The annoying people are still posting too much, and their annoying messages are still being delivered.
The ability to mute individual members has been asked for many times and I think is already on the "to do" list. I offer that as the best answer. Regards, Bruce
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